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Yellowing bubbles - observations

Discuss vintage Kenner and Palitoy Star Wars toys from the 1977-1985 era.
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Palifan
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Re: Yellowing bubbles - observations

Postby Palifan » Sat Mar 28, 2015 3:26 pm

I've also seen a few 12 back bubbles that have yellowed over the years and own a 12 back Palitoy Chewbacca one.

I can't help but think it's to do with the type of plastic used and maybe even the figures being packed before they had fully gassed off after painting ( Oo-er Misses!). It seems to be a lot less common though with these early releases but is funny how you see it with certain figures like the 30 A Luke Bespin compared to some of the other 30 A backs.

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Re: Yellowing bubbles - observations

Postby OTB Records » Sat Mar 28, 2015 4:17 pm

Thanks to everyone for the posts. Really interesting. In my opinion the yellowing of bubbles is down to chemical reactions within the products used. Because these figures were originally made over a period of years and also made at different factories then the chemical mix for some of the elements (especially the bubbles) will vary. There does seem to be a pattern emerging over time as to which batches are more prone than others.

Of course over time most things degrade - that is a given. However, I do find it interesting, especially when it comes to AFA, how bubbles are definitely deteriorating and yellowing over relatively short periods of time. I just find it futile slabbing a figure and giving it a grade when all the time it's deteriorating and there is the possibly that in a few years the grade will have gone down in the case of the bubble which does make up one-third of the total score. :)

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Re: Yellowing bubbles - observations

Postby Joe » Sat Mar 28, 2015 5:07 pm

There was a pretty good thread on RS a couple of years ago which used data from the AFA pop reports to show the percentages of yellowed bubbles on various different cardbacks: http://forum.rebelscum.com/t1078575/

All of the data was in picture form of course and the bloody pics are gone so all you've got is some discussion (and a few stats that were written out).

Trilogo bubbles can and do yellow contrary to popular belief: http://forum.trilogo.info/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=321

(If you aren't a member then below is an example!)

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As has been said, there are many factors that contribute to yellowing. Some can be delayed by storing/displaying figures correctly (and there are many theories and personal preferences on how to actually do that) but ultimately if a particular figure/wave or bubble type is prone to yellowing due to the material it's made of, then it will probably still yellow eventually whatever you try in order to stop it.

Prolonging the inevitable is very rewarding from a display point of view (clear bubbles look infinitely better than yellow ones) but if it's going to happen then it will.
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Re: Yellowing bubbles - observations

Postby db94 » Sat Mar 28, 2015 7:04 pm

Joe the yellowing bubble on a Trilogo is worrying, but the scary lone eyeball I can see on the cardback staring back at me is just sh*t scary :o
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Re: Yellowing bubbles - observations

Postby Joe » Sat Mar 28, 2015 10:37 pm

db94 wrote:Joe the yellowing bubble on a Trilogo is worrying, but the scary lone eyeball I can see on the cardback staring back at me is just sh*t scary :o



:lol: :lol: :lol:

Who knew the Vindaloovians collected Vintage Star Wars??

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Re: Yellowing bubbles - observations

Postby Mr. Bob A. Feet » Sun Mar 29, 2015 12:27 am

Haha one of my favorite episodes of Red Dwarf +1
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Re: Yellowing bubbles - observations

Postby OTB Records » Mon Mar 30, 2015 12:56 am

So how common is it for bubbles to drop off and/or crack for no apparent reason and are there any document cases of this happening after a MoC figure has been graded and slabbed by AFA?

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Re: Yellowing bubbles - observations

Postby Palifan » Mon Mar 30, 2015 1:29 am

Not to sure about a bubble falling off after being graded (although I think I did see one a while back), but I have a couple of near bubble fails in my collection being a 21 back Boba Fett and a 20 back Palitoy Walrus Man. Neither of these bubbles have yellowed but the seal has all but gone on both of them and I don't believe either figure has ever been removed from the bubble.

These bubble/seal fails are very tricky to reseal as you'll end up seeing the glue behind the seal as there's no paper attached to the bubble. For this reason I've left both of them and will probably end up using a top loader to secure the bubble to the card back. It's not ideal but better than causing damage to the bubble when it hasn't ever been opened. My other slight concern with regards to the top loader is that I wonder if it might end up yellowing the bubble in some way over time, who knows, only time will time.

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Re: Yellowing bubbles - observations

Postby OTB Records » Mon Mar 30, 2015 2:42 pm

These photos are from the forthcoming Vectis 'shop find' auction. Quite a lot of yellows there. Not sure what this adds to the known facts but I thought it would be worth showing.

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Re: Yellowing bubbles - observations

Postby jedisearcher » Mon Mar 30, 2015 5:46 pm

There are some really clear Klaatu's in that haul and they are pretty difficult to find crystal clear but not being able to see whether they're Palitoy or Kenner makes things abit more difficult.

Interesting that all of the big goofy Palitoy bubbles are 100% clear (some Han Hoth, lots of Biker Scouts, couple of Bib) so that was obviously a good batch of plastic.
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Re: Yellowing bubbles - observations

Postby OTB Records » Mon Mar 30, 2015 6:24 pm

As far as I'm aware those MoC figures have been stored for many years (probably since first delivered) in manufacturer's outer boxes. Therefore they have been stored in the dark and probably in a relatively good environment when it comes to temperature etc. So all-in-all pretty good if not perfect storage conditions. As can be seen a good number have yellowed badly whilst some have remained very clear.

Given they have all been stored in the same way for probably the last 30 years then I think this definitely shows that the chemical make up of the plastic used is critical when it comes to how quickly and badly bubbles yellow.

Going back to my original question, what do people think the chances of those that are still clear are when it comes to going yellow? If they have remained clear for 30+/- years why should they suddenly go yellow if stored correctly.

What do you think? :)

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Re: Yellowing bubbles - observations

Postby Hod10 » Sun Sep 30, 2018 6:17 pm

I used to have some Episode 1 and Episode 2 figures stored away all together. Bought in 1999/2000 and 2002. 15 figures maybe and at some point I packed them all together and stored them in darkness. When I opened the box after 5-10 years or so all were as normal bar one, Boss Nass... dark yellow (caramel). Think the plastic the figure is made with and the amount of it in ratio to bubble size can also add to the speed of yellowing. Clash of trapped gasses and the grade of bubble plastics maybe. Something like that anyway. Lots of variables.

The Palitoy Logray’s in the above are caramel that’s for sure.

ie, vintage Hong Kong Kenner ROTJ Yoda, small figure and a small bubble, often yellow. Unless it’s made in China (exceptional grade of bubble plastic).
Last edited by Hod10 on Mon Oct 01, 2018 12:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Yellowing bubbles - observations

Postby Dannywhiteley » Sun Sep 30, 2018 8:57 pm

My thoughts are that plastic quality is the number one factor, with off gassing number two and environmental conditions either speeding up or delaying the deterioration. In 75 years will any still be clear, I don't think so. Which will last longest? Probably early SW and Trilogo as so far these seem to have stood the test of time the best so no reason for that to change.

Just a matter of time though.

I think off gassing has a lot to answer for though. Think how pop cut cards and bubbles opened many years ago tend to have stayed clearer than fully sealed.

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Re: Yellowing bubbles - observations

Postby Darth Bobby » Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:43 am

Dannywhiteley wrote:My thoughts are that plastic quality is the number one factor, with off gassing number two and environmental conditions either speeding up or delaying the deterioration. In 75 years will any still be clear, I don't think so. Which will last longest? Probably early SW and Trilogo as so far these seem to have stood the test of time the best so no reason for that to change.

Just a matter of time though.

I think off gassing has a lot to answer for though. Think how pop cut cards and bubbles opened many years ago tend to have stayed clearer than fully sealed.


Someone told me Made In Mexico MOC's are often clear as the cards have a hole puncture behind the sealed figure. Is that correct? Why was the hole put in to the card?

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Re: Yellowing bubbles - observations

Postby Mini99 » Mon Oct 01, 2018 1:13 pm

Not sure if the hole would stop the bubble going yellow.
It may do as I believe it was there to stop condensation forming inside the bubble.
As Mexico is a hot country when sealed objects are moved between different temperatures condensation can form, venting to atmosphere will reduce this from happening.


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