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Palitoy 41 Back List Rarest to the Most Common?

Discuss vintage Kenner and Palitoy Star Wars toys from the 1977-1985 era.
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Re: Palitoy 41 Back List Rarest to the Most Common?

Postby mr_palitoy » Sat Jan 28, 2017 5:06 pm

Andyclarke wrote:Surely then they should be question marks rather than crosses on your matrix or am I looking at the wrong thing??


I've put crosses because I trust the sources the information came from. The ?'s are a throwback from the original palitoy.org matrix.

Jason
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Want Palitoy ESB 45A Back (Blue Circle Offer) 2-1B MOC and Palitoy ESB 30B cardbacks for first 12 figures

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Re: Palitoy 41 Back List Rarest to the Most Common?

Postby Andyclarke » Sat Jan 28, 2017 5:09 pm

mr_palitoy wrote:
Andyclarke wrote:Surely then they should be question marks rather than crosses on your matrix or am I looking at the wrong thing??


I've put crosses because I trust the sources the information came from. The ?'s are a throwback from the original palitoy.org matrix.

Jason


Maybe you're just a lot nicer and more trusting than us cynical old bastards! :D

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Re: Palitoy 41 Back List Rarest to the Most Common?

Postby palitoyjunky » Sat Jan 28, 2017 6:01 pm

Listen this collector who will remain nameless for the time being refused to show me a picture privately :!: Now we have known each other since the mid/late 90s and he knows I am and always have been a serious collector.
Therefore I take the statement of the existence of a Palitoy 41 Dengar cardback with an enormous pinch of salt :!: :!:
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Re: Palitoy 41 Back List Rarest to the Most Common?

Postby maxf » Sat Jan 28, 2017 7:05 pm

palitoyjunky wrote:Listen this collector who will remain nameless for the time being refused to show me a picture privately :!: Now we have known each other since the mid/late 90s and he knows I am and always have been a serious collector.
Therefore I take the statement of the existence of a Palitoy 41 Dengar cardback with an enormous pinch of salt :!: :!:


I understand not wanting to send a photo around - you lose control. What I don't get is not showing people it on your phone when you see them in person (not you Jon, obvs).
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Re: Palitoy 41 Back List Rarest to the Most Common?

Postby Wreck-It Ralph » Sun Jan 29, 2017 1:37 am

Hi

Personally I love the mystery of it all, does it exist? Doesn't it exist? I think the mystery of not knowing whether something exists makes it all the more exciting and appealing like the Yeti, Big Foot, Loch Ness Monster and of course aliens. Maybe the guy hasn't shown the picture because once he does the mystery is gone. Hypothetically If someone could tell you categorically that the figure never existed on a card would you want to know?

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Re: Palitoy 41 Back List Rarest to the Most Common?

Postby Starzone » Sun Jan 29, 2017 12:05 pm

Wasn't going to comment here and know I shouldn't but I'm constantly and more so recently getting my balls busted from a few people I considered friends and who I thought after I'd spent so long in the hobby my word would be enough. Fortunately I'd like to think most people know me as a stand up guy ....

The unreliable source of the Dengar is me...I do have a 41 back Dengar, one of two I've seen. Whether the "palitoy experts" believe me then that's up to them and I can accept that. I'd probably be sceptical without proof but I definitely never rule anything out and get great excitement out of the new discoveries made in the hobby Let's say it doesn't exist and all move as it's getting a bit boring now......I honestly wish I'd never mentioned it

All I was trying to do when mentioning it years ago was be helpful, friendly but it's now become a tool to be attacked and bullied with because I won't share a pic. I had a dream a few years ago to produce a book on all UK SW toys and Memorabila and may still do that at some point.

Never been one to show the collection off, quite a shy person actually, and also being in the business for 25 years you'd be shocked to hear how many insurance companies contact me to value stolen collections, infact most of my best Palitoy carded items came from long time friend Jim Stevenson who sold them after he was heartbroken when burgled in the mid 90s.

Issues like this pop up from time to time, over the years many people have told me certain figures do and do not exist. Read a post from Jason Smith back in 2006 where he stated Chewbacca does not exist on 30 Back card which I knew for a fact did.....so thought I'd display one at The Palitoy Archive in 2007. I guess because it was not seen before that it did not exist and if I'd not taken it then it would still not exist as I don't think another or even a backing card has surfaced......

Just two weeks ago I visited a friend who has the most amazing Palitoy 30 back Luke Farmboy.....the only one I have ever seen. But I guess because it's not been posted on a forum or in a clique does not exist.

Sorry Jason Mr Palitoy you've come in for a bit of stick for this, will see you in a few weeks at Celebration and will produce a pic for you over a beer so you can feel confident your Matrix is correct.

Peace, happy collecting Darren

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Re: Palitoy 41 Back List Rarest to the Most Common?

Postby Mr-shifter » Sun Jan 29, 2017 1:43 pm

Hey Darren,

If your swapping peeks for beers in Orlando I will see you at the bar ;)
Looking for: A fair priced ungraded trilogo Yak Face MOC (Condition is not so important - no cracked bubbles or broken seals though)

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Re: Palitoy 41 Back List Rarest to the Most Common?

Postby mr_palitoy » Sun Jan 29, 2017 1:45 pm

Starzone wrote:Wasn't going to comment here and know I shouldn't but I'm constantly and more so recently getting my balls busted from a few people I considered friends and who I thought after I'd spent so long in the hobby my word would be enough. Fortunately I'd like to think most people know me as a stand up guy ....

The unreliable source of the Dengar is me...I do have a 41 back Dengar, one of two I've seen. Whether the "palitoy experts" believe me then that's up to them and I can accept that. I'd probably be sceptical without proof but I definitely never rule anything out and get great excitement out of the new discoveries made in the hobby Let's say it doesn't exist and all move as it's getting a bit boring now......I honestly wish I'd never mentioned it

All I was trying to do when mentioning it years ago was be helpful, friendly but it's now become a tool to be attacked and bullied with because I won't share a pic. I had a dream a few years ago to produce a book on all UK SW toys and Memorabila and may still do that at some point.

Never been one to show the collection off, quite a shy person actually, and also being in the business for 25 years you'd be shocked to hear how many insurance companies contact me to value stolen collections, infact most of my best Palitoy carded items came from long time friend Jim Stevenson who sold them after he was heartbroken when burgled in the mid 90s.

Issues like this pop up from time to time, over the years many people have told me certain figures do and do not exist. Read a post from Jason Smith back in 2006 where he stated Chewbacca does not exist on 30 Back card which I knew for a fact did.....so thought I'd display one at The Palitoy Archive in 2007. I guess because it was not seen before that it did not exist and if I'd not taken it then it would still not exist as I don't think another or even a backing card has surfaced......

Just two weeks ago I visited a friend who has the most amazing Palitoy 30 back Luke Farmboy.....the only one I have ever seen. But I guess because it's not been posted on a forum or in a clique does not exist.

Sorry Jason Mr Palitoy you've come in for a bit of stick for this, will see you in a few weeks at Celebration and will produce a pic for you over a beer so you can feel confident your Matrix is correct.

Peace, happy collecting Darren


Hi Darren, obviously it would be lovely to see a pic of it. But I don't need one to be confident of it's entry on my palitoy matrix. Testimony from yourself and other trusted collectors like Dave Tree (who is acknowledged for info on the rarer cardbacks on my guide) is more than enough for me to have confidence in a matrix entry on my guide. The entries wouldn't be there otherwise. I have 30b Luke Farmboy on my guide too. I think the only first 12 on 30b I have missing now is Sand People.

Have had thoughts about a Palitoy guide book myself, it would be the next logical step after I finish my full palitoy star wars guide.

I understand the mentality of wanting to keep rare items special, and that by publishing a photo you are to a certain extent giving it to everyone. The only pic of a Trilogo Y-wing out there is very heavily watermarked, thats one way to prevent people from taking ownership.

I also understand the mentality of collectors who won't believe something exists until they can see it themselves. I got quite a hard time back in the day for saying the Palitoy VCJ was real when all we had were some opened examples, one of which I bought. Quite often they will belittle or ridicule the information source without the concrete proof, as you can see from some of the responses I've had on here.

Anyways it will be great to hang out at Celebration. Looking forward to it!

cheers Jason
Many Bothans died to bring us this information...

Want Palitoy ESB 45A Back (Blue Circle Offer) 2-1B MOC and Palitoy ESB 30B cardbacks for first 12 figures

Mr Palitoy's Cardback Guide
http://www.freewebs.com/mrpalitoy

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Re: Palitoy 41 Back List Rarest to the Most Common?

Postby mr_palitoy » Sun Jan 29, 2017 2:34 pm

And there are 3 known chewie 30bs now. The MOC you displayed and 2 cardbacks.

Cheers Jason
Many Bothans died to bring us this information...

Want Palitoy ESB 45A Back (Blue Circle Offer) 2-1B MOC and Palitoy ESB 30B cardbacks for first 12 figures

Mr Palitoy's Cardback Guide
http://www.freewebs.com/mrpalitoy

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Re: Palitoy 41 Back List Rarest to the Most Common?

Postby Andyclarke » Sun Jan 29, 2017 2:42 pm

I've had some incredibly rare pieces over the years and have always been happy to share pictures because in my opinion it's the nice (and right) thing to do. Surely that's what a forum is about, a community of like minded collectors, sharing stories, pictures, knowledge and generally helping each other out.
At the end of the day we would all love to see a picture of a 41 back Palitoy Dengar and I think Jason has provided the perfect solution by suggesting the owner watermarks it, therefore still having control over the picture and any future copies. This particular piece has been discussed on numerous occasions.
With any rare piece if you've told no one, then fair enough it's a secret, but if you've told selected people, effectively the piece exists, then it isn't really a secret so surely if longstanding collectors are questioning its existence the next logical step is to post a pic (watermarked!) to prove it and satisfy our curiosity. I'm sorry Darren but it does come across as a bit arrogant and selfish, don't you think?
Just my opinion.

BTW I don't really think Jason has been on the end of any stick, certainly not from me. I very much value his Palitoy matrix and the knowledge and pictures he has shared over the years.

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Re: Palitoy 41 Back List Rarest to the Most Common?

Postby Hothrebel » Sun Jan 29, 2017 3:31 pm

Well said Darren
It's your item to do with as you see fit,you shouldn't have to feel pressured into doing anything you are not comfortable with.
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Re: Palitoy 41 Back List Rarest to the Most Common?

Postby palitoyjunky » Sun Jan 29, 2017 4:44 pm

8) Well I am glad u have finally come on to say ur piece Darren after just closely studying our forum :!:

Bit of a passive aggressive response don't u think :!: Coming on here and implying we r bullshit Palitoy experts by ur " " marks. I have never said I am a Palitoy expert nor has the others U r referring to! We all just have a passion for Palitoy and I for one am always learning and always willing to help out fellow collectors if indeed I can.

U say u thought we were friends, our relationship over the years has been nothing more than dealer, collector and will say no more on that :!: Don't get me wrong I know u r a good dealer with a good rep etc and ur existence as such for so many years is testament to that so I cannot knock u on ur dealership qualities. "Starzone Toys" is great for the hobby 8)

U say ur a shy guy and not one to show off ur collection. U have shown enough of it on FB-a far more vast stage than our little Forum. As u say u were also heavily involved in the Palitoy Archive Room in 2007 at Cel showing some top pieces and displays in ur collection and it was great to see. U also soon put up ur 2 30 back A&B examples of FX-7 when the Vectis example sold for 8.68K(after fees). So please don't say ur shy mate :!:

I guess I can understand u not wishing to show me ur Dengar-not being my friend why should u :?: If u do have it many congrats and I genuinely hope to c a Palitoy book written one day-that would b amazing :D
U can even charge me double if u like :lol:

Anyway as u say this is getting a little tedious now. U have said ur piece and I have said mine. I won't b mentioning the 41 Dengar and u in the same sentence again. But I would love to c an example one day and the 30 back Luke original wouldn't go a miss either :wink:

Anyway onwards and upwards.
Looking for mint sealed or unused Palitoy Empire.

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Re: Palitoy 41 Back List Rarest to the Most Common?

Postby Starzone » Sun Jan 29, 2017 5:16 pm

Andyclarke wrote:I'm sorry Darren but it does come across as a bit arrogant and selfish, don't you think?
Just my opinion.


I don't think people I'm friends with would ever call me selfish and arrogant but if that's what certain people want to think of me I'm cool with that .....trust me I've been called a lot worse.

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Re: Palitoy 41 Back List Rarest to the Most Common?

Postby Starzone » Sun Jan 29, 2017 5:31 pm

palitoyjunky wrote:8) Well I am glad u have finally come on to say ur piece Darren after just closely studying our forum :!:

Bit of a passive aggressive response don't u think :!: Coming on here and implying we r bullshit Palitoy experts by ur " " marks. I have never said I am a Palitoy expert nor has the others U r referring to! We all just have a passion for Palitoy and I for one am always learning and always willing to help out fellow collectors if indeed I can.

U say u thought we were friends, our relationship over the years has been nothing more than dealer, collector and will say no more on that :!: Don't get me wrong I know u r a good dealer with a good rep etc and ur existence as such for so many years is testament to that so I cannot knock u on ur dealership qualities. "Starzone Toys" is great for the hobby 8)

U say ur a shy guy and not one to show off ur collection. U have shown enough of it on FB-a far more vast stage than our little Forum. As u say u were also heavily involved in the Palitoy Archive Room in 2007 at Cel showing some top pieces and displays in ur collection and it was great to see. U also soon put up ur 2 30 back A&B examples of FX-7 when the Vectis example sold for 8.68K(after fees). So please don't say ur shy mate :!:

I guess I can understand u not wishing to show me ur Dengar-not being my friend why should u :?: If u do have it many congrats and I genuinely hope to c a Palitoy book written one day-that would b amazing :D
U can even charge me double if u like :lol:

Anyway as u say this is getting a little tedious now. U have said ur piece and I have said mine. I won't b mentioning the 41 Dengar and u in the same sentence again. But I would love to c an example one day and the 30 back Luke original wouldn't go a miss either :wink:

Anyway onwards and upwards.


Sorry Jon I did think we were friends, thought 20 years of speaking at shows, texts, emails and chatting about all things Palitoy was a friendship but I now realise you didn't feel the same way.

Not meaning to be angry but I've had to put up with many snide remarks lately which I don't think we're warranted, always tried my to do my best with regards the hobby and help other where possible.

I am a shy, private person who didn't really share any parts of my collection until 2007 and David Tree asked me to lend a few bits for his great display, since then did start to limelight a few bits on my Facebook page as you say and enjoyed doing so for a while (you will notice I have now stopped) as it proved problematic as a seller most people assume that everything I have has a price ....which it doesn't.

I know it's hard for some collectors to get there head round but a lot of collectors don't feel comfortable sharing photos on the internet and some of the finest collections in the world are very private.....there is no right or wrong way to collect, just do so the way you find most enjoyable, try not to judge others and overall have fun!

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Re: Palitoy 41 Back List Rarest to the Most Common?

Postby Andyclarke » Sun Jan 29, 2017 5:39 pm

Starzone wrote:
Andyclarke wrote:I'm sorry Darren but it does come across as a bit arrogant and selfish, don't you think?
Just my opinion.


I don't think people I'm friends with would ever call me selfish and arrogant but if that's what certain people want to think of me I'm cool with that .....trust me I've been called a lot worse.


I never said you were selfish or arrogant, I said it comes across like that. I've met and chatted to you a few times back in the toy fair days and you seemed polite and willing to chat. Semantics maybe, just making my point.


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