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Response to Claims

Discuss vintage Kenner and Palitoy Star Wars toys from the 1977-1985 era.
theforceuk
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Re: Response to Claims

Postby theforceuk » Tue May 30, 2017 9:58 pm

momike wrote:Should of just left him to it frank, people are more bothered about poor old Jeff and how he was exposed than the facts, truth is for the most part I don't think people even give a shit (I know some do you know who you are) which is the sadest thing about this, I tell you what collectors 10 years ago wouldn't of stood for all this.......but it's ok Jeffs giving out refunds so all is one with the world.....yeah right, the guy told lie after lie got exposed time and time again selling baggies he knew where fake....we are talking about tens of thousands of pounds here and hundreds of fake baggies that all share a lot the same traits in the fonts, seals and baggie material

Frank mate I have to take my hat of to you because you exposed someone who has been selling fake stuff for years and if not for your actions would still be doing so to this day....... a lot of people have had money back and that is down to your efforts frank and I salute you for it fella :wink: I think you faced an uphill struggle as you were always going to come up against nay Sayers and people who would rather bury there heads in the sand as for some ignorance is bliss.....


Well said, saved me the hassle, I'm 100% behind Frank on this, even though I have never owned a baggie or have ever met this Jeff chap.

One thing I do no, he is completely full of shit and more shit. :?
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Re: Response to Claims

Postby ScruffyLookingNH » Wed May 31, 2017 10:30 am

spoons wrote:Don't think anyone is arguing that refunds are bad Simon, I was just answering Grant's question 'why refund if he was out to defraud'....


Not having a go at you, or indeed anyone, in particular, mate. Just saying refunds are positive and some small victory. And I agree: refunds in no way make the seller automatically innocent or actually prove anything one way or the other.

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Re: Response to Claims

Postby lejackal » Wed May 31, 2017 12:14 pm

refunds being issued yet won't refund the person responsible for bringing an end to the fraud - that speaks volumes, if it were an honest mistake (several dozen times over) then surely you'd be looking to work with the person that was your go to guy for many years??

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Re: Response to Claims

Postby momike » Wed May 31, 2017 1:03 pm

What stands out to me the most is that Jeff offered refunds pretty much straight away when all this came to light for the sw-a, sw-b, sw-d, Meccano and the dodgy Kenner logo baggies, I have to question why he did not send those to be looked at by ukg before offering refunds as that's what I would of done and imagine most of you guys would of done the same in that you would of sought out a second opinion, the fact he offered those refunds pretty much immediately leads me to no other conclusion than that he was well aware those baggies were moody

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Re: Response to Claims

Postby Frunkstar » Wed May 31, 2017 4:44 pm

lejackal wrote:refunds being issued yet won't refund the person responsible for bringing an end to the fraud - that speaks volumes, if it were an honest mistake (several dozen times over) then surely you'd be looking to work with the person that was your go to guy for many years??


I actually got a refund for the baggies I returned, plus some interesting emails from Jeff, so yes I got a full refund, now shall we break it down?

1. I got a refund to (IMO) calm the storm - ain't happening & I was not about to start shouting I got it from the highest peek & start praising the guy for it considering the losses in question not to mention 100's of hours of my time trying to get the evidence in question to bring this sad sage to light.

2. Did I get my investment back? - No some baggies were bought a few years back at market value then VS market value now = 100's if not thousands lost

3. More to point 2 really, I got a refund yes & I lost money big time on market value now, but does it end there? - No here are 2 prime examples -

3A - I had a popy DSD - I now have a popy box & booklets minus the baggie - I did not even bother returning this one I opened it to put with my loose run - total loss

3B - I had a full run of all 6 SW-a baggie for the ESB display mock up stand, now to put this in context there maybe 3 to 6 known examples of each of 5 of those 6 figures in the world, most likely less than 3 of each, it took me about 6 years & thousands to put the set together (only full set in the world), now with the fake SW-a lando the set is incomplete & in tatters, so I hear you think well it's just a baggie he got from Jeff & he got a full refund for what he paid, wrong, I had an example already & had hoped this was an upgrade, so I let the other one go to an avid baggie collector, so this being fake as said about ruined the set.

Has everyone being given a refund?? - that we will most likely never know same as we will never know the amount of baggies (or all the types of baggies) in question due to this FACT - no one wants to come forward & say what needs to be said, in fact I would say 90 to 95% of those involved have simply slopped off to Jeff directly via email to get a refund rather than actually coming forward & stating I bough X & Y which cost me X in 19?? 20?? & these are photos of what I had & am returning for the record, my bill was tiny compared to many others I know of at 1800ish, am I happy I got my refund - in a way yes,in a way no,as had I just opened all the fakes & had them loose graded at today's current market value I would most likely be better off, do I care if I got a refund or not - quite frankly not in the bloody slightest, as the money is not what this is about is it??, well not for me at least.
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Re: Response to Claims

Postby Frunkstar » Wed May 31, 2017 4:51 pm

momike wrote:What stands out to me the most is that Jeff offered refunds pretty much straight away when all this came to light for the sw-a, sw-b, sw-d, Meccano and the dodgy Kenner logo baggies, I have to question why he did not send those to be looked at by ukg before offering refunds as that's what I would of done and imagine most of you guys would of done the same in that you would of sought out a second opinion, the fact he offered those refunds pretty much immediately leads me to no other conclusion than that he was well aware those baggies were moody


A VERY valid point Mike, to me offering instant refund & with a finite short time period to qualify for the refund speaks volumes to me & this is my reasoning -

Why as others have stated even offer a refund if out to scam?? - simple answer in my book, these baggies we know about (or did when this started) are the tip of the iceberg, - offer refunds quick sharp before they discover the 100's if not 1000's of palitoy-k's I sold are also fake, - damage limitation plain & simple as I see it, had we not pushed further to see what else is affected by these issues the bill would be minimal, we now have a pretty extensive list off affected baggies SW-a/b/d / ESB-a / Palitoy-k /POTF Palitoy-i's - just how much more have we missed???, just how deep does the deception go?? & the biggie - is it just individual baggies that have been tampered with/faked??
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Re: Response to Claims

Postby Frunkstar » Wed Jun 14, 2017 3:24 pm

Fail report just back from UKG confirming every baggie I returned to Jeff is 100% fake, it's in a PDF format so not sure how to upload it as is, this is copied & pasted -

UkGraders Limited
3 Hamilton Road
Sutton in Ashfield
Notts
NG17 5LD
England

ukgraders@yahoo.co.uk

Dear Frank.

Please see below the report for the failed baggies that you sent in for confirmation that all have issues either relating to seal type or the text is stencilled onto the bags.

X3 Boba Fetts ESB-F/ESB-D/ROTJ-A Seal Types are not correct on all 3
X1 Lando Calrissian SW-A Baggie Stencilled/Hand Painted White.
X1 Rebo Band Incorrect Bags and Stencilled Text
X1 Luke X-Wing Fake Baggie.
X1 Leia Boushh Seal and Text Stencilled
X1 Hoth Stormtrooper incorrect seal and stencilled text.
X1 Imperial Commander incorrect seal type.
X1 Death Star Droid incorrect seal and stencilled text.
X1 Stormtrooper incorrect seal and stencilled text.
X1 Leia Organa incorrect seal and stencilled text also figure is play worn.
X1 8D8 Fake baggie.
X1 Rebel Commando Fake Baggie.

Please feel free to contact me on the above email to clarify any of the above.
Yours Sincerely,
Stephen Ward,
Director of UK Graders Limited

I screenshotted the PDF doc for clarity, I also have some info I would like to share from the latest emails I got back from Jeff when we were dealing with the refund, I'll add the screenshots shortly
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Re: Response to Claims

Postby Frunkstar » Wed Jun 14, 2017 3:28 pm

UKG Fail 1.png

UKG Fail 2.png

UKG Fail 3.png
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Re: Response to Claims

Postby Palifan » Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:41 pm

Well that confirms everything you stated Frank, let's see Jeff try to defend this!

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Re: Response to Claims

Postby sparkysx » Wed Jun 14, 2017 6:38 pm

I inadvertently met Jeff at farthest from, didn't know it was him until my friend told me on the way home, everyone was totally confused as to what the F he was doing there!

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Re: Response to Claims

Postby Richard_H » Wed Jun 14, 2017 7:05 pm

Well, that's case closed that the baggies are fake IMO.

I also think it was right that Jeff went to FF. He needs to answer questions, sort out refunds.... no good going into hiding like TT.
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Re: Response to Claims

Postby Lindo » Wed Jun 14, 2017 9:50 pm

I'm sure jeff doesn't give a shit tbh, the confirmation from UKG that they are fake will have little consequence and pretty meaningless as frank had already confirmed they were, people know they are fake because it has been quite public anyway but that does not stop him doing events and people are still buying from him so why should he care, doesn't appear that his reputation is suffering much at all does it
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Re: Response to Claims

Postby Richard_H » Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:05 pm

If I was owed £10k I'd want him doing events to sell everything he could to get my money back quickest.
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Re: Response to Claims

Postby Michael Sith » Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:54 pm

Glad that the report is back and just confirms what Frank has put forward all along.

In regard to the selling of Mocs etc ( that have probably been purchased with ill gotten gains, which raises its own ethical questions) this is only part of the issue highlighted throughout this thread.

As Frank, and others have raised, it's not just about the money, and to boil it down to that, undermines the severity of the damage done to the hobby, the number of fakes that are out there in circulation and all of the other damaging effects of this affair.
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Re: Response to Claims

Postby Frunkstar » Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:39 pm

Richard_H wrote:If I was owed £10k I'd want him doing events to sell everything he could to get my money back quickest.


Yeah "ideal world scenario" but are folks getting back those takings he made at FF???, I know one guy who's owed a further several K (already been paid back some) yet when I told him Jeff took a huge profit at FF he asked again & from what I understand has still not seen another penny, so it begs the question - what exactly is happening with the monies taken at the event??

I did raise my concerns about being allowed to stand @ FF & my suggestion was that if he is allowed a stand then ideally the funds taken should be held by the event organizers to make SURE the taking are actually going to those owed.
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