ESB Leia Bespin - Toy Toni identification

Need some more help on positely identifying this as a Toy Toni. Recently purchased from ebay for £40 I bought it on the assumption it was a TT for sure. However, once in hand I'm unsure. I've had a couple of very knowledgeable collectors look at these pics and they are split 50/50, one saying it's legit, and one sayin it's a TT.

I'd value the forums thoughts on it:

With the press on the back, particularly the indent between the stems and the fact it isn't sealed to the very edge of the blister I would say factory sealed original. I don't need to tell you who is probably the best guy to ask.

Just revisited this, it's not even on the list is it?

As Carl says, that looks fine. Bargain! 8)

lejackal said:

Just revisited this, it's not even on the list is it?

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I think it is.

SublevelStudios said:

lejackal said:

Just revisited this, it's not even on the list is it?

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I think it is.

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http://www.starwarsforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=19044

First post on here isn't complete and I lost the ability to scroll :lol:

Clearly an affected cardback but I stand by my op that this one is okay

Personally I think it's a Toni due to the bubble placement. Take a look at these confirmed Toni's:





Notice the bubble is dead centered over the race track like yours. On authentic cards the bubble alignment is much less uniform compared to the race track. It is always in the same place on the card due to the press used, but that rarely lined up perfectly with the different widths of race track for each figure, like this Luke bubble:



Yours and the three above are almost a centimetre too far over to the right IMO. Still for £40, bargain! I'll give you £50 for it :lol:

Thank you for all the input so far guys.

I have to say I'm finding it a real head-scratcher.

Jason (Smith) had told me, judging from these photos, that he thinks it's legit, however another 2 collectors, of whom I have the upmost respect for their knowledge, have said it's a TT.

It's that indent on the back that has really thrown me initially. Then, in hand, the seal is so secure and neat it's hard to believe some chap in a back room was churning these out by hand. I've seen a couple of TT's up close and the seals are a dead giveaway, but I understand he had a bespoke jig made for heat sealing them towards the end of his 'production'.

The other question is value. If this could be confirmed as legit, what kind of price might it be worth.

This is a German GM card right? See if you can find any other legit ones with similar bubble alignment. I agree the warped back is a good thing but that could be caused by heat, Toni's process was far from perfect so you see varying degrees of success (if they were all terrible he would have been busted a long time ago.) Sorry but for me case fresh + rare card = Toni in 99% of cases.

Here's a thread on RS about what could even be the exact same figure:

http://forum.rebelscum.com/showthread.php?t=1104893

edd_jedi said:

Here's a thread on RS about what could even be the exact same figure:

http://forum.rebelscum.com/showthread.php?t=1104893

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That does indeed look like the same figure - even has that small glitch on the print in the word 'gown'. This one also has the indent on the rear.

So this was graded before all the furore, was this one to be legit or found to be a TT because it looks like the same as mine.

PS, thanks for the link Edd.

No worries, the thread isn't conclusive but one of the last posts suggests it could be a Toni. I honestly don't think I've ever seen a legit German ESB MOC, I'm sure they exist but all the ones I've seen came from Toni (I used to have about 5 that I bought from him myself.)

In fact check out my sales post, it's almost as if I knew!

http://forum.rebelscum.com/showthread.php?t=1068158

These 4 originated from Toy Toni and as with all his stuff are in super mint, almost unbelievable condition

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edd_jedi said:

In fact check out my sales post, it's almost as if I knew!

http://forum.rebelscum.com/showthread.php?t=1068158

These 4 originated from Toy Toni and as with all his stuff are in super mint, almost unbelievable condition

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I asked if he had these bubbles instead

Almost like he was making them to order :lol:

Still looks good to me... :?

The bubble on this Leia is not the pointy double stemmed bubble that Toni used. There is a gap in the edge of the seal on the right hand side often seen on factory seals. And there is pressing round the bubble area on the back of the card. These 3 positives lead me to believe this is a genuine card.

Cheers Jason

Yep all good points Jason. Sadly I think some of these will be difficult to say 100% one way or the other, people will always doubt them.

lejackal said:

Almost like he was making them to order :lol:

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I bet he was! Stupid of me in hindsight

edd_jedi said:

lejackal said:

Almost like he was making them to order :lol:

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I bet he was! Stupid of me in hindsight

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Apart from having toys as a child I have never known vintage collecting without Toni but from what I've read him, and other scam artists, have all been trusted members of the collecting world. Who honestly would've thought when the stuff was worth only a few quid that someone was making the effort to make their own MOCs.