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Valuation Requests and PM Deals

Discuss vintage Kenner and Palitoy Star Wars toys from the 1977-1985 era.
Richard_H
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Valuation Requests and PM Deals

Postby Richard_H » Tue Aug 01, 2017 4:03 pm

As some of you are aware I helped I guy out for valuation requests and expressed an interest in one item. I didn't get a chance to buy the item as another forum member made a pm deal before the sales thread came through. It's annoying, it sucks, but life's too short and we have to move on. However, this is not the first time this has happened to me and I'm aware it has happened to others too. I would have had no problem yesterday if I wasn't the first on the sales thread. But refreshing pages from 18:30-22:00 was a total waste of my time.

In my experience there are generally two types of people asked for valuations.

Type One - those who are heading straight to ebay and are using our knowledge.

Type Two - those who genuinely want to sell to collectors and are unsure as to how to price their items.

For type one people they're usually pretty easy to spot and in those situations the buyer is taking a gamble too in the person coming good.

However, type two should be encouraged IMO to gather as many sources as possible to get an accurate picture of prices. If this practice of PM deals continues then I can see a situation where nobody will give prices and it'll all be PM deals and pretty much silent auctions until someone has satisfied the seller. In this situation even with 2 or 3 buyers interested the seller could still be getting lowballed if there's no transparency.

As much as I'm not one for rules I propose the following guidelines which you may agree / disagree / tweak. Hell, Edd may say get stuffed and this is pointless. But it's at least worth a try to show how we feel about it.

When someone posts a valuation there is to be no pming of the seller. Any questions can be put on the forum for full transparency. Then when the seller makes the valuation post it's fair game. The seller should be encouraged to state an approx time of when the sales post will go live. I would probably say the shame of someone being outed for breaking this guideline and going against the spirit of this board would be sufficient for someone not to break it.
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Re: Valuation Requests and PM Deals

Postby Lindo » Tue Aug 01, 2017 4:49 pm

I thought the valuation thread was the new sales thread as more things get sold on there than the actual for sale thread, pming people to try and get in first seems to be the norm now or saying 'I'm interested in this if you decide to sell' just to say I expressed interest first, but although that sucks I suppose it's how things are nowadays.
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Re: Valuation Requests and PM Deals

Postby Bonsai_Tree_Ent » Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:00 pm

Some you win, some you lose!

I don't buy too much these days but I feel your pain Rich, for one that got away.

That said, I don't think this forum needs 'no pm' type rules and I don't know how you would monitor it if you did - short of Edd reading everyone's private correspondence which would be pretty worrying. Writing '"'I'd be interested in..." on an unpriced item shouldn't give anyone dibs or guarantee the item goes to them. Every single person on this board would be potentially interested in any and every vintage SW item if the price was right.

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Re: Valuation Requests and PM Deals

Postby Richard_H » Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:26 pm

Fair point but as Lindo says about the VR section pretty much now is the 'make me a pm offer section.'

Perhaps that is the way to go. As soon as someone posts in there hit them with a pm first and hope to agree a deal.
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Re: Valuation Requests and PM Deals

Postby Bonsai_Tree_Ent » Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:32 pm

Richard_H wrote:Perhaps that is the way to go. As soon as someone posts in there hit them with a pm first and hope to agree a deal.


Bit like house buying - "I'll pay £X but only if you take it off the market and cancel the remaining viewings..." :D

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Re: Valuation Requests and PM Deals

Postby chewbaccadave » Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:34 pm

Richard_H Sorry to say but i'm the person who has ended up with the R5-D4 after sending a P.M. which was in regards to buying all 3 as I don't own a figure on a Star Wars card.I have had the same thing happen to me several times and i understand how you feel.Like others have said (in the valuation thread) it happens all the time,not that is a valid reason for it going on,and i think the idea about members being outed if offers are made by P.M. should be named and shamed as long as everybody agrees to this becoming a rule.

If it would help i would be willing to trade the R5-D4 to you if you have something on a Star Wars card in similar condition/price i am more than happy to try and sort this out,sorry Dave.

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Re: Valuation Requests and PM Deals

Postby tobedesu » Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:36 pm

I have typed in a valuation thread along the lines of "I'd be interested when you have a price..." as it's a genuine interest.
This I've done for a couple of reasons:
Firstly to encourage the seller to sell on here and not use this place as a gauge for eBay, like the Type one seller written in the OP.
Secondly as I have no idea myself of price but in hope that it might prompt someone even more to value the item.
Thirdly to see who else is interested should the item be sold on here.

It's by no way meant to be a stake to claim because it doesn't work that way I know.

The valuation threads can be quite useful not only here but elsewhere and also toy fairs and the like.
Therefore, it'd be nice to see all valuations and offers.

I've missed a couple of pieces in the for sale forum but these are not necessarily related to the valuations thread.
That's just the luck of the draw, so I don't believe its necessary to state a time and date when a sale thread goes live.
Last edited by tobedesu on Tue Aug 01, 2017 6:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Valuation Requests and PM Deals

Postby tobedesu » Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:53 pm

Richard_H, after just going over the thread again I do understand your frustration stating your interest and pricing it up all in the first reply.

It appears the valuation thread can be used by other members to gauge the suggested price then up it slightly or work out a deal in a PM (not completely suggesting that's what happened here).

For those kind of tactics then there should be some sort of action if common courtesy goes out of the window.

Fair play to chewbaccadave to owning up and I hope you both come to a resolution.

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Re: Valuation Requests and PM Deals

Postby Richard_H » Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:57 pm

chewbaccadave wrote:Richard_H Sorry to say but i'm the person who has ended up with the R5-D4 after sending a P.M. which was in regards to buying all 3 as I don't own a figure on a Star Wars card.I have had the same thing happen to me several times and i understand how you feel.Like others have said (in the valuation thread) it happens all the time,not that is a valid reason for it going on,and i think the idea about members being outed if offers are made by P.M. should be named and shamed as long as everybody agrees to this becoming a rule.

If it would help i would be willing to trade the R5-D4 to you if you have something on a Star Wars card in similar condition/price i am more than happy to try and sort this out,sorry Dave.



Thanks for coming out Dave! I'm happier knowing it's not going to a flipper which is obviously the main worry.
It's not that I lost out on the item - it's more the wasted time I did in valuations, posting and then waiting. Nobody has a right to anything and I know that. A SW-b R5 is on my list but if it's not today then it'll be another day.

However, there's another point you've put in there. What happens when a buyer offers to take the whole lot? How does that get handled?

I'm not even keen on the 'name and shame' approach. I'd rather the boards self-regulated and come to some kind of consensus that we all followed. At present, it's a case of PM as soon as a VR post is made - and that's fine if we all accept this.
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Re: Valuation Requests and PM Deals

Postby Richard_H » Tue Aug 01, 2017 6:00 pm

tobedesu wrote:I have typed in a valuation thread along the lines of "I'd be interested when you have a price..." as it's a genuine interest.
This I've done for a couple of reasons:
Firstly to encourage the seller to sell on here and not use this place as a gauge for eBay, like the Type one seller written in the OP.
Secondly as I have no idea myself of price but in hope that it might prompt someone even more to value the item.
Thirdly to see who else is interested should the item be sold on here.

It's by no way meant to be a stake to claim because it doesn't work that way I know.

Personally I have no problem if members want to PM to secure a deal. I do perhaps believe it would be good to at least comment "pm'd offer", maybe even to state the offer amount.
The valuation threads can be quite useful not only here but elsewhere and also toy fairs and the like.
Therefore, it'd be nice to see all valuations and offers.

I've missed a couple of pieces in the for sale forum but these are not necessarily related to the valuations thread.
That's just the luck of the draw, so I don't believe its necessary to state a time and date when a sale thread goes live.



This I pretty much agree. An expression of interest is exactly that - I'd like to be given a chance on X.
Anything in the FS sub-forum is what I'd consider a chance even if I never logged in. It's totally transparent in there.
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Re: Valuation Requests and PM Deals

Postby chewbaccadave » Tue Aug 01, 2017 6:14 pm

Richard_H wrote:
chewbaccadave wrote:Richard_H Sorry to say but i'm the person who has ended up with the R5-D4 after sending a P.M. which was in regards to buying all 3 as I don't own a figure on a Star Wars card.I have had the same thing happen to me several times and i understand how you feel.Like others have said (in the valuation thread) it happens all the time,not that is a valid reason for it going on,and i think the idea about members being outed if offers are made by P.M. should be named and shamed as long as everybody agrees to this becoming a rule.

If it would help i would be willing to trade the R5-D4 to you if you have something on a Star Wars card in similar condition/price i am more than happy to try and sort this out,sorry Dave.



Thanks for coming out Dave! I'm happier knowing it's not going to a flipper which is obviously the main worry.
It's not that I lost out on the item - it's more the wasted time I did in valuations, posting and then waiting. Nobody has a right to anything and I know that. A SW-b R5 is on my list but if it's not today then it'll be another day.

However, there's another point you've put in there. What happens when a buyer offers to take the whole lot? How does that get handled?

I'm not even keen on the 'name and shame' approach. I'd rather the boards self-regulated and come to some kind of consensus that we all followed. At present, it's a case of PM as soon as a VR post is made - and that's fine if we all accept this.


Thanks for the olive branch Richard_H but i feel even worse now because i just wanted any Star Wars card (no certain back just Star Wars on the front) and only took the R5-D4 as i have a tri-logo one which i hoped to sell to help with cost of this one :oops: .As I said earlier it's not a problem i am more than happy to trade if you want,cheers Dave.

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Re: Valuation Requests and PM Deals

Postby yoda » Tue Aug 01, 2017 6:19 pm

It is awkward to find a solution that will make everyone happy. I think your gonna always have people send PMs once they see something they like. You could have a situation where a new member just joins. He gets a valuation because he's selling up if someone PMs he'll probably sell if it's a good offer. Then what happens if someone PMs second with a higher offer?
I know it sucks but I don't know if it can be prevented. If there were even rules how could we know if they were broken? Unless mods checking our PMs but I don't believe that's the way to go either. We would have no Idea who contacted the seller first.
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Re: Valuation Requests and PM Deals

Postby Richard_H » Tue Aug 01, 2017 6:23 pm

chewbaccadave wrote:
Richard_H wrote:
chewbaccadave wrote:Richard_H Sorry to say but i'm the person who has ended up with the R5-D4 after sending a P.M. which was in regards to buying all 3 as I don't own a figure on a Star Wars card.I have had the same thing happen to me several times and i understand how you feel.Like others have said (in the valuation thread) it happens all the time,not that is a valid reason for it going on,and i think the idea about members being outed if offers are made by P.M. should be named and shamed as long as everybody agrees to this becoming a rule.

If it would help i would be willing to trade the R5-D4 to you if you have something on a Star Wars card in similar condition/price i am more than happy to try and sort this out,sorry Dave.



Thanks for coming out Dave! I'm happier knowing it's not going to a flipper which is obviously the main worry.
It's not that I lost out on the item - it's more the wasted time I did in valuations, posting and then waiting. Nobody has a right to anything and I know that. A SW-b R5 is on my list but if it's not today then it'll be another day.

However, there's another point you've put in there. What happens when a buyer offers to take the whole lot? How does that get handled?

I'm not even keen on the 'name and shame' approach. I'd rather the boards self-regulated and come to some kind of consensus that we all followed. At present, it's a case of PM as soon as a VR post is made - and that's fine if we all accept this.


Thanks for the olive branch Richard_H but i feel even worse now because i just wanted any Star Wars card (no certain back just Star Wars on the front) and only took the R5-D4 as i have a tri-logo one which i hoped to sell to help with cost of this one :oops: .As I said earlier it's not a problem i am more than happy to trade if you want,cheers Dave.


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Re: Valuation Requests and PM Deals

Postby Richard_H » Tue Aug 01, 2017 6:25 pm

yoda wrote:It is awkward to find a solution that will make everyone happy. I think your gonna always have people send PMs once they see something they like. You could have a situation where a new member just joins. He gets a valuation because he's selling up if someone PMs he'll probably sell if it's a good offer. Then what happens if someone PMs second with a higher offer?
I know it sucks but I don't know if it can be prevented. If there were even rules how could we know if they were broken? Unless mods checking our PMs but I don't believe that's the way to go either. We would have no Idea who contacted the seller first.


Dead against MODs checking PMs. Not even sure if it's possible. I guess there's a way to see who has sent a pm only as part of an action.

In your example above I've had similar myself whereby I'd agreed a sale but then a second person offered more and I lost out. It's not easy.
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Re: Valuation Requests and PM Deals

Postby subzero » Tue Aug 01, 2017 6:26 pm

Fishing for offers isn't allowed but the only thing I can think of is to introduce some kind of open bidding system, where people have to say in the thread what they will pay, then the highest bid wins once the thread has been on for x amount of time, and the winner gets it fair and square.....

But that would just basically be ebay then.... :?: :!: and people can't be stopped from PM'ing each other either if you were to ban PM sales or something lol.
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