The vagaries of graded figs

phreatobite

Jedi Master
Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
596
Just a quick question: I've got an afa graded C-3P0 with straight 95s but an overall 90, this doesn't seem to make sense if they're taking an average?
 

Bonsai_Tree_Ent

Jedi Master
Joined
Jun 26, 2012
Messages
985
You've got a minty C3PO. Full stop. That ought to be the end of the story!

Some pimply young fellow in a low rent industrial estate, working for probably close to minimum wage has looked at this figure and written a number on a sticker. He's then probably chowed down on a donut and texted his girlfriend in boredom, before being barked at by the duty manager because time is money.

AFA don't consist of a forensic league of uber collector scientists, unfortunately they appear to make careless mistake like yours all too frequently.
 

Mr-shifter

Sith Lord
Joined
Aug 25, 2013
Messages
2,996
Location
Sussex by the Sea
Bonsai_Tree_Ent said:
You've got a minty C3PO. Full stop. That ought to be the end of the story!

Some pimply young fellow in a low rent industrial estate, working for probably close to minimum wage has looked at this figure and written a number on a sticker. He's then probably chowed down on a donut and texted his girlfriend in boredom, before being barked at by the duty manager because time is money.

AFA don't consist of a forensic league of uber collector scientists, unfortunately they appear to make careless mistake like yours all too frequently.

Surely not. I thought Tom derby inspected every one personally with a microscope before diligently photographing and cataloguing the piece, writing a 3 page condition report and then personally entering the details on to their computer system.

They are after all, the authority.
 

subzero

Sith Lord
Joined
Jun 20, 2017
Messages
3,052
Don't agree with grading for the most part, but on the other hand it's helped me get a very cheap Boba Fett MOC because it was graded a 50 for some silly reason, in my eyes looks more like a 70 with a good bubble, if I wanted I could crack that thing open right now and double my money selling it.

Thank you AFA for your awful grade. 8)
 

ScruffyLookingNH

Sith Lord
Supporter
Joined
May 13, 2015
Messages
2,990
subzero said:
Don't agree with grading for the most part, but on the other hand it's helped me get a very cheap Boba Fett MOC because it was graded a 50 for some silly reason, in my eyes looks more like a 70 with a good bubble, if I wanted I could crack that thing open right now and double my money selling it.

Thank you AFA for your awful grade. 8)

Just had to look over to my right to check my Palitoy Boba Fett MOC graded 50 that I picked up for a bargain price was still there :lol: Benefited from a few "low graded" MOCs going cheap because the owner couldn't get past the grade. It's about the only reason I like grading.
 

subzero

Sith Lord
Joined
Jun 20, 2017
Messages
3,052
ScruffyLookingNH said:
subzero said:
Don't agree with grading for the most part, but on the other hand it's helped me get a very cheap Boba Fett MOC because it was graded a 50 for some silly reason, in my eyes looks more like a 70 with a good bubble, if I wanted I could crack that thing open right now and double my money selling it.

Thank you AFA for your awful grade. 8)

Just had to look over to my right to check my Palitoy Boba Fett MOC graded 50 that I picked up for a bargain price was still there :lol: Benefited from a few "low graded" MOCs going cheap because the owner couldn't get past the grade. It's about the only reason I like grading.

Haha I stole your Boba!

Same situation with my one it's like the seller listed it thinking this is all it's worth cus it's a 50, only the seller had no idea I probably would have paid an extra £100 on it easy! :wink: it's actually a really nice card.

Whoever graded it that day must have been dumped by his bird or something lol.
 

choffialoopa

Padawan
Joined
Dec 18, 2017
Messages
107
I would rather have a figure in one of Iain's display containers and a handful of pictures to decide if something belongs in my collection. That big AFA/UKG number stamp doesn't look pretty. Gives the whole collection an artificial scientific look, rather than a genuine romantic look.
 

weasel

Moderator
Staff member
Supporter
Joined
Oct 19, 2006
Messages
19,844
Location
My Island
Bonsai_Tree_Ent said:
You've got a minty C3PO. Full stop. That ought to be the end of the story!

Some pimply young fellow in a low rent industrial estate, working for probably close to minimum wage has looked at this figure and written a number on a sticker. He's then probably chowed down on a donut and texted his girlfriend in boredom, before being barked at by the duty manager because time is money.

AFA don't consist of a forensic league of uber collector scientists, unfortunately they appear to make careless mistake like yours all too frequently.


Ehhh....Girlfriend!? :lol:
 

Merrion

Padawan
Joined
Dec 31, 2012
Messages
129
I dont get the consistent rants or slights or disdain for graded figures whenever grading is discussed. This is not unique to this thread specifically and ive read numerous views expressed on this site in other threads just bashing grading full stop. Its almost like if you dont a negative view for grading ur almost by implication guilty of some hanging offence lol.

Grading is a feature of the collecting community, simple as. Sure you dont have to buy into it but suggesting those that do are somehow duped because apparentedly they needed someone else to tell them what condition their figure is in.

In an era where figures are flooded with repo weapons grading offers security to those less familiar with idetifying fakes. Some people like having an independent body examining their figure and having them graded to validate its condition objectively. For some the thrill is in the anticipation of getting a high grade and then putting this in pride of place to their collection. Nothing wrong with that.

Of course like any service provided in any industry mistakes can be made and questions raised on some decisions. But hey tell me where this dosent happen. I also dont like U grading petsonally for obvious reasons and would make the exception on this element.

So for anyone else reading this and who likes collecting graded items I just wanted to shout out and express a positive view to proceedings. I have some graded figures but only represents about 4% of all my figures. That said I would have no hesitation in getting more at the right price, particulary the first 12.
 

palitoyjunky

Sith Lord
Joined
Sep 4, 2009
Messages
3,017
phreatobite said:
Just a quick question: I've got an afa graded C-3P0 with straight 95s but an overall 90, this doesn't seem to make sense if they're taking an average?

I will do u a favour and actually answer ur question :lol:
The overall grade given to a piece is not the result of an average :!: The overall grade given is the most fitting to describe the overall look of the piece :!: So u say ur 3PO has got straight 95 subs :?: Am assuming it has been graded 90 95 95 :?: Who ever graded it believed that overall ur MOC looks like a 90 and is not quite good enough to look like a 95. So in ur case they believed the lowest sub grade governed the overall appearance of the piece :!: I have MOCs in my collection with identical sub grades and diff overall grades :!: Just rem at the end of the day it's just an opinion of someone else and the differences between a 90 and 95 r so microscopic it really doesn't matter :)
 

Clarkspie&chips

Sith Lord
Joined
Apr 27, 2014
Messages
1,173
palitoyjunky said:
Just rem at the end of the day it's just an opinion of someone else and the differences between a 90 and 95 r so microscopic it really doesn't matter :)

That is true until you come to sell because going from a 90 to 95 can add a huge amount to the price
 

Snaketibe

Grand Master
Supporter
Joined
Jan 16, 2016
Messages
5,380
Location
United Kingdom
Merrion said:
I dont get the consistent rants or slights or disdain for graded figures whenever grading is discussed. This is not unique to this thread specifically and ive read numerous views expressed on this site in other threads just bashing grading full stop. Its almost like if you dont a negative view for grading ur almost by implication guilty of some hanging offence lol.

Grading is a feature of the collecting community, simple as. Sure you dont have to buy into it but suggesting those that do are somehow duped because apparentedly they needed someone else to tell them what condition their figure is in.

In an era where figures are flooded with repo weapons grading offers security to those less familiar with idetifying fakes. Some people like having an independent body examining their figure and having them graded to validate its condition objectively. For some the thrill is in the anticipation of getting a high grade and then putting this in pride of place to their collection. Nothing wrong with that.

Of course like any service provided in any industry mistakes can be made and questions raised on some decisions. But hey tell me where this dosent happen. I also dont like U grading petsonally for obvious reasons and would make the exception on this element.

So for anyone else reading this and who likes collecting graded items I just wanted to shout out and express a positive view to proceedings. I have some graded figures but only represents about 4% of all my figures. That said I would have no hesitation in getting more at the right price, particulary the first 12.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, including you. You like, or at least believe you can see some benefits in, grading. That's entirely fair enough. However, it's also fair enough for those of us who consider grading to be a waste of time and money to hold that view too.

Your views are your own and you are absolutely entitled to hold them, no matter who might agree or disagree with them. I would however like to offer a rebuttal to some of the points you raise. Firstly, I genuinely don't require someone else, whether expert or not, to tell me how good something I already own actually is. I have eyes and a brain and can see that for myself.

Secondly, you mention what at first glance sounds like a good point with regards to repro weapons (presumably with loose graded figures, of course). However, firstly this assumes that the graders can actually spot a fake weapon from a real one (some will, some may well not), however once that weapon is encased in its plastic prison, it makes checking whether the graders have made the right decision considerably more difficult. Far more to the point however is that you seem to be saying that there are people out there paying the very steep grading prices in order just to guarantee a genuine weapon. Come off it! Who pays twice the price for a loose figure in order to ensure that just a weapon (which incidentally can never again be held by any figure for as long as it's encased in Perspex) is the real thing? A vanishingly few people might do this, but the vast majority of people won't.

You also mention that some collectors like having an independent body validating an item's condition objectively, but it isn't objective. It's entirely subjective; it's simply the personal opinion of that particular grader or that particular day. There's no official global standard measure for assessing the condition of these things. It's only ever been about people's personal opinions. And yet once those opinions are given, they magically imbue the graded item with double the value of an identical ungraded one! That in a nutshell, more than anything else, is why I consider grading to be so pointless.

By implication as well, you seem to be saying that there is almost an altruistic element to grading; that the graders are assisting the inexperienced collector in purchasing the real thing (both figures and weapons, of course). But let's get real here, if that ever happens it's an incidental by-product of the grading business. Grading exists for one reason only; so graders can make money.

If you personally don't understand the dislike of grading, even after you've heard the arguments of those people, such as myself, who don't like it, then that's fair enough. I can only repeat that you are absolutely entitled to your opinion and YOU ARE NOT WRONG :); if you like graded figures and the grading process, that is your perfect right. However there is no absolute right or wrong answer here regarding whether grading is good, bad or indifferent, and therefore those of us that don't like grading for the reasons stated above (or others), are entitled to think that too.

Peace! :)
 

subzero

Sith Lord
Joined
Jun 20, 2017
Messages
3,052
I don't like grading and I completely stay away from it with everything I collect, accept for just one extremely rare example and that's my VCJ which is the only figure I wanted to buy graded, however I didn't buy it because of the grade I solely wanted it for the authenticity. I even had the chance to buy an 85 grade but passed on it when I spotted an 80 for a bit cheaper, I would have still bought it if it was a 70 as I just don't care about the number, if it looks nice and it's real then that's all that matters to me.

With the amount of fakes and scams out there with the VCJ i'd rather have that graded for piece of mind for both me and my buyer if/when I decide to sell it one day, it gives the buyer absolute confidence in it's authenticity and makes it much easier to shift and get the best price.

I'll never get another graded figure!
 

Mini99

Sith Lord
Supporter
Joined
Sep 1, 2016
Messages
4,750
Snaketibe said:
Merrion said:
I dont get the consistent rants or slights or disdain for graded figures whenever grading is discussed. This is not unique to this thread specifically and ive read numerous views expressed on this site in other threads just bashing grading full stop. Its almost like if you dont a negative view for grading ur almost by implication guilty of some hanging offence lol.

Grading is a feature of the collecting community, simple as. Sure you dont have to buy into it but suggesting those that do are somehow duped because apparentedly they needed someone else to tell them what condition their figure is in.

In an era where figures are flooded with repo weapons grading offers security to those less familiar with idetifying fakes. Some people like having an independent body examining their figure and having them graded to validate its condition objectively. For some the thrill is in the anticipation of getting a high grade and then putting this in pride of place to their collection. Nothing wrong with that.

Of course like any service provided in any industry mistakes can be made and questions raised on some decisions. But hey tell me where this dosent happen. I also dont like U grading petsonally for obvious reasons and would make the exception on this element.

So for anyone else reading this and who likes collecting graded items I just wanted to shout out and express a positive view to proceedings. I have some graded figures but only represents about 4% of all my figures. That said I would have no hesitation in getting more at the right price, particulary the first 12.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, including you. You like, or at least believe you can see some benefits in, grading. That's entirely fair enough. However, it's also fair enough for those of us who consider grading to be a waste of time and money to hold that view too.

Your views are your own and you are absolutely entitled to hold them, no matter who might agree or disagree with them. I would however like to offer a rebuttal to some of the points you raise. Firstly, I genuinely don't require someone else, whether expert or not, to tell me how good something I already own actually is. I have eyes and a brain and can see that for myself.

Secondly, you mention what at first glance sounds like a good point with regards to repro weapons (presumably with loose graded figures, of course). However, firstly this assumes that the graders can actually spot a fake weapon from a real one (some will, some may well not), however once that weapon is encased in its plastic prison, it makes checking whether the graders have made the right decision considerably more difficult. Far more to the point however is that you seem to be saying that there are people out there paying the very steep grading prices in order just to guarantee a genuine weapon. Come off it! Who pays twice the price for a loose figure in order to ensure that just a weapon (which incidentally can never again be held by any figure for as long as it's encased in Perspex) is the real thing? A vanishingly few people might do this, but the vast majority of people won't.

You also mention that some collectors like having an independent body validating an item's condition objectively, but it isn't objective. It's entirely subjective; it's simply the personal opinion of that particular grader or that particular day. There's no official global standard measure for assessing the condition of these things. It's only ever been about people's personal opinions. And yet once those opinions are given, they magically imbue the graded item with double the value of an identical ungraded one! That in a nutshell, more than anything else, is why I consider grading to be so pointless.

By implication as well, you seem to be saying that there is almost an altruistic element to grading; that the graders are assisting the inexperienced collector in purchasing the real thing (both figures and weapons, of course). But let's get real here, if that ever happens it's an incidental by-product of the grading business. Grading exists for one reason only; so graders can make money.

If you personally don't understand the dislike of grading, even after you've heard the arguments of those people, such as myself, who don't like it, then that's fair enough. I can only repeat that you are absolutely entitled to your opinion and YOU ARE NOT WRONG :); if you like graded figures and the grading process, that is your perfect right. However there is no absolute right or wrong answer here regarding whether grading is good, bad or indifferent, and therefore those of us that don't like grading for the reasons stated above (or others), are entitled to think that too.

Peace! :)
So Snaketibe, are you for grading or not, I'm not too sure! :lol:
I must say that was a well written argument against grading without getting too personal. :wink:
I for one do have a few graded items in my collection, just because that was how they were when I bought them, I certainly wouldn't and didn't pay a premium for them though.
When I restarted collecting I did send two items away for grading, as I lacked the knowledge to be able to tell if the weapon was correct or not, but am very unlikely to that ever again.
Not because its un cool, but because I have the faith in guys on here to be able to help and assist me when I need help.
I also have found that building my knowledge is half the fun, I check, make a decision and then get a second opinion if a bit unsure, to further my knowledge.
Get to know guys on here and you will build up a group that you will feel comfortable with asking anything, believe me, it's better than sending off something for grading, considerably cheaper, far far quicker and more enjoyable!

On another note, I think that this would make an excellent "forum" for a future podcast if anyone's reading. :wink:

Enjoy your collecting which ever way you chose, it's your collection so do it your way, as Frank Sinatra would have said. :lol:
 

choffialoopa

Padawan
Joined
Dec 18, 2017
Messages
107
Display preferences are individual.

I find some upgrade 80 prettier than some 85. It is a subjective unscientific grading process that makes its own existence paradoxal. But it guarantees less risk when selling again.

Authentication makes much more sense in binary question of yes and no. Like an autograph from carri fisher is real or not.

Only place grading would make sense is spotting repro or original VCJ. But if snakebite is right you might have an inexperienced grader who can't spot some of the better reproductions then it just confirms the paradox of afa and ukg
 

choffialoopa

Padawan
Joined
Dec 18, 2017
Messages
107
Display preferences are individual.

I find some ugrade 80 prettier than some 85. It is a subjective unscientific grading process that makes its own existence paradoxal. But it guarantees less risk when selling again.

Authentication makes much more sense in binary question of yes and no. Like an autograph from carrie fisher is real or not.

Only place grading would make sense is spotting repro or original VCJ. But if snakebite is right you might have an inexperienced grader who can't spot some of the better reproductions then it just confirms the paradox of afa and ukg
 

Merrion

Padawan
Joined
Dec 31, 2012
Messages
129
Snaketibe said:
Merrion said:
I dont get the consistent rants or slights or disdain for graded figures whenever grading is discussed. This is not unique to this thread specifically and ive read numerous views expressed on this site in other threads just bashing grading full stop. Its almost like if you dont a negative view for grading ur almost by implication guilty of some hanging offence lol.

Grading is a feature of the collecting community, simple as. Sure you dont have to buy into it but suggesting those that do are somehow duped because apparentedly they needed someone else to tell them what condition their figure is in.

In an era where figures are flooded with repo weapons grading offers security to those less familiar with idetifying fakes. Some people like having an independent body examining their figure and having them graded to validate its condition objectively. For some the thrill is in the anticipation of getting a high grade and then putting this in pride of place to their collection. Nothing wrong with that.

Of course like any service provided in any industry mistakes can be made and questions raised on some decisions. But hey tell me where this dosent happen. I also dont like U grading petsonally for obvious reasons and would make the exception on this element.

So for anyone else reading this and who likes collecting graded items I just wanted to shout out and express a positive view to proceedings. I have some graded figures but only represents about 4% of all my figures. That said I would have no hesitation in getting more at the right price, particulary the first 12.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, including you. You like, or at least believe you can see some benefits in, grading. That's entirely fair enough. However, it's also fair enough for those of us who consider grading to be a waste of time and money to hold that view too.

Your views are your own and you are absolutely entitled to hold them, no matter who might agree or disagree with them. I would however like to offer a rebuttal to some of the points you raise. Firstly, I genuinely don't require someone else, whether expert or not, to tell me how good something I already own actually is. I have eyes and a brain and can see that for myself.

Secondly, you mention what at first glance sounds like a good point with regards to repro weapons (presumably with loose graded figures, of course). However, firstly this assumes that the graders can actually spot a fake weapon from a real one (some will, some may well not), however once that weapon is encased in its plastic prison, it makes checking whether the graders have made the right decision considerably more difficult. Far more to the point however is that you seem to be saying that there are people out there paying the very steep grading prices in order just to guarantee a genuine weapon. Come off it! Who pays twice the price for a loose figure in order to ensure that just a weapon (which incidentally can never again be held by any figure for as long as it's encased in Perspex) is the real thing? A vanishingly few people might do this, but the vast majority of people won't.

You also mention that some collectors like having an independent body validating an item's condition objectively, but it isn't objective. It's entirely subjective; it's simply the personal opinion of that particular grader or that particular day. There's no official global standard measure for assessing the condition of these things. It's only ever been about people's personal opinions. And yet once those opinions are given, they magically imbue the graded item with double the value of an identical ungraded one! That in a nutshell, more than anything else, is why I consider grading to be so pointless.

By implication as well, you seem to be saying that there is almost an altruistic element to grading; that the graders are assisting the inexperienced collector in purchasing the real thing (both figures and weapons, of course). But let's get real here, if that ever happens it's an incidental by-product of the grading business. Grading exists for one reason only; so graders can make money.

If you personally don't understand the dislike of grading, even after you've heard the arguments of those people, such as myself, who don't like it, then that's fair enough. I can only repeat that you are absolutely entitled to your opinion and YOU ARE NOT WRONG :); if you like graded figures and the grading process, that is your perfect right. However there is no absolute right or wrong answer here regarding whether grading is good, bad or indifferent, and therefore those of us that don't like grading for the reasons stated above (or others), are entitled to think that too.

Peace! :)


Snake bite indeed , seems quite an apt name given your reply. Its akin to someone entering a room with an ak47 , clearing the room and then declaring peace. Wow, just wow. I will reply later when ive time but to say your reply was a woosh moment would be an underststement.
 

Snaketibe

Grand Master
Supporter
Joined
Jan 16, 2016
Messages
5,380
Location
United Kingdom
Merrion said:
Snake bite indeed , seems quite an apt name given your reply. Its akin to someone entering a room with an ak47 , clearing the room and then declaring peace. Wow, just wow. I will reply later when ive time but to say your reply was a woosh moment would be an underststement.
Well, judging from your initial reply, sadly you seem to have taken offence, which is not what I intended. I deliberately bookended my response by taking pains to point out that you are entitled to your opinion AND that you are not wrong.

However, if despite that you still think I was trying to be personal and attack you, I can only apologise for not making my intentions clear enough. Let me state it as clearly as possible now. You like grading and you wished to express your support for it. Good for you. Sincerely, good for you. You have a stance and are willing to stand up for it.

I take a different view on grading and offered a counter view on some of the points you raised. We're both allowed to do those things; I'm allowed to disagree with you and you're allowed to disagree with me, and just because one person disagrees with another doesn't mean there isn't respect or that there is dislike. I don't dislike you; I have absolutely no reason to. This Forum is full of people with differing views on all kinds of things. You'll never get everyone to agree on point A or point B. We're all different and there's room here for us all.

So again, if you were offended, I can only apologise; I dislike grading, but I certainly don't dislike you.

Snaketibe (it's not bite)
 

Mini99

Sith Lord
Supporter
Joined
Sep 1, 2016
Messages
4,750
I'm not speaking for the guy, but I believe his name is "Snaketibe". :wink:
Opps sorry a little late!
 

subzero

Sith Lord
Joined
Jun 20, 2017
Messages
3,052
You know when some people read the word Snaketibe their brain actually takes pieces away or rearranges the letters to what it thinks it should say, and they genuinely believe they see the word Snakebite, getting off topic but just thought i'd throw that out there. :lol:

It's kind of the same thing how your brain works when you
you read this sentence and you thought it looked correct.

Now re-read that last sentence until you spot it. :wink:
 
Old Thread: Hello . There have been no replies in this thread for 365 days.
Content in this thread may no longer be relevant.
Perhaps it would be better to start a new thread instead.
Top Bottom