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The day is coming....repro MOC

Discuss vintage Kenner and Palitoy Star Wars toys from the 1977-1985 era.
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Robstyley
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Re: The day is coming....repro MOC

Postby Robstyley » Sun Jul 22, 2018 8:04 pm

The day is coming?? That day is long gone :lol: Whenever a good, coveted product is made there are always fakes, no matter what it is. I don’t think they’ll fool collectors no matter how close they are. The print finish and seal will always call it out.

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Mini99
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Re: The day is coming....repro MOC

Postby Mini99 » Sun Jul 22, 2018 8:28 pm

Robstyley wrote:That’s nothing, I saw a graded Toy Toni DSD for sale the other day for £269 :o

:shock:
I don’t have any in my collection, but I would have one if it was £50 just as a piece of Star Wars history, especially if it had been graded too! :lol:
But to pay over £100 seems crazy!

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Re: The day is coming....repro MOC

Postby apack7229 » Sun Jul 22, 2018 9:09 pm

subzero wrote:Here's another scary one, what about not even replicating an entire MOC?, with the very high value of some used cardbacks alone they wouldn't even need to put together a convincing MOC with a bubble and figure attached. Instead they could just make a cardback, glue on a vintage bubble then tear it off making it look used, and sell it for hundreds.... :shock:


I saw a group of cardbacks on eBay last year that we’re all fake but had been copied off of real used cardbacks that had price stickers and bubble tearing.
My Fett Showcase viewtopic.php?f=2&t=33548

My Vintage Showcase viewtopic.php?f=2&t=34130

My Cardback Showcase viewtopic.php?f=2&t=34270

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Re: The day is coming....repro MOC

Postby ScruffyLookingNH » Sun Jul 22, 2018 9:49 pm

If his kits are as unconvincing in hand as that photo makes them appear to be we're safe for a while yet: the blue in "toy" of "Palitoy" is way out :D

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subzero
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Re: The day is coming....repro MOC

Postby subzero » Sun Jul 22, 2018 10:04 pm

apack7229 wrote:
subzero wrote:Here's another scary one, what about not even replicating an entire MOC?, with the very high value of some used cardbacks alone they wouldn't even need to put together a convincing MOC with a bubble and figure attached. Instead they could just make a cardback, glue on a vintage bubble then tear it off making it look used, and sell it for hundreds.... :shock:


I saw a group of cardbacks on eBay last year that we’re all fake but had been copied off of real used cardbacks that had price stickers and bubble tearing.


Wow, and add that with authentic looking and smelling cards and the market is basically fucked. :shock:
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Re: The day is coming....repro MOC

Postby Dannywhiteley » Sun Jul 22, 2018 10:30 pm

Mini99 wrote:
Robstyley wrote:That’s nothing, I saw a graded Toy Toni DSD for sale the other day for £269 :o

:shock:
I don’t have any in my collection, but I would have one if it was £50 just as a piece of Star Wars history, especially if it had been graded too! :lol:
But to pay over £100 seems crazy!


I bought a UKG 90 graded C3PO Rem Limbs a couple years ago for £50. I think it's part of the history of the hobby now, it's acquired a secondary collectable status.

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olisuds
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Re: The day is coming....repro MOC

Postby olisuds » Mon Jul 23, 2018 2:07 am

They look scarily convincing in a picture but I’d expect up close it would be hard to replicate the quality of lithographic printing.
WTB: Unused Palitoy Cardbacks

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Re: The day is coming....repro MOC

Postby jayums » Mon Jul 23, 2018 7:49 am

Repost
Last edited by jayums on Mon Jul 23, 2018 4:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The day is coming....repro MOC

Postby jedisearcher » Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:33 am

_Lee_ wrote:Hi all,

I know this has been discussed before but i was just having a little delve into it.

I just wanted to do a wee test over the past few weeks and i bought one of these kits from Mr Poon as i was buying something from him anyway:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Star-W ... SwlMFZJuKI

I also bought a card kit from Beggars canyon toys just to see how good these actually are. Now ive been collecting for a long time and have had hundreds of MOCs pass through my fingers ( ive also had ariund 5 Palitoy troopers), but i have to say that these repros are getting closer. Both of these are extremely close to being exact to the originals. Poons in particular is shockingly good. Beggars Canyons cards are Kenner mainly but still good (in a production sense - i dont support repros) but Poons is very worrying as it is of outstanding quality. Like it or not, these guys are not producing replica shite like Mr Orme, they are producing VERY near perfect replicas.

My conclusion is that the day is coming that we are getting nearer and nearer to the perfect repro. Will we in time see a repro graded mistakenly?

Its very worrying, and alarming how good these things are getting but my feeling is that we unfortunately now have no control over the MOC market anymore. I suppose the older and more sentimental i get the more i find it hard, but im also starting to be more relaxed about it all? The world has driven itself to be able to produce such quality and however unfortunate it is we just cannot stop it. I do not support repros in anyway, BUT i will not criticise people who like to try and bring the look and aesthetics back to their life. Ive no doubt there are thousands of budget collectors out there who like to get the vintage feel and genuinley cannot afford the real deal, should they really be frowned upon because they want to bring something famiiar back to their collection. Some will say go e reseal route, but again, some just dont have the funds. Should a collector who has recarded some vintage figures be any different to a collector with a full Palitoy 12 back run or whatever??

Food for thought, and good to be talking again.

lee


How does the seal look on the Beggars canyon version? I’ve seen a couple of fake waffle seals and they are very obviously wrong. Are these better?

Also, to add to the fake stickers and tearing, we’ve also seen fake yellowed bubbles on high end POTF figures (ATAT Driver springs to mind), and that also had a fake AFA label.

Depressing.
WTB thread - most Palitoy 30b's and 3 debut 45a's: http://www.starwarsforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=17224

Memories from a 1980s Toy Shop: http://www.starwarsforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=24289

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Re: The day is coming....repro MOC

Postby mr_palitoy » Mon Jul 23, 2018 12:43 pm

edd_jedi wrote:It would be interesting to see a comparison of the print under a microscope. Although the new repro cards might look good at first glance, you cannot replicate the effect of litho printing with a digital print. I'm sure under close inspection it will be possible to tell the difference.


Yep, modern digital printing techniques have rectangular pixels, good old vintage has dots. Its best seen on the racktrack on the front of the card and is obvious with a magnifying glass or digital camera zoom.

cheers Jason
Many Bothans died to bring us this information...

Want Palitoy ESB 45A Back (Blue Circle Offer) 2-1B MOC and Palitoy ESB 30B cardbacks for first 12 figures

Mr Palitoy's Cardback Guide
http://www.freewebs.com/mrpalitoy

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Re: The day is coming....repro MOC

Postby Leemcl » Wed Jul 25, 2018 11:59 pm

I don’t understand how the repro market is allowed to exist.

99.9% of time you put any copyrighted image on something someone, be it a company themselves or a 3rd party agent of the company, hit you so hard with a copyright breach you won’t be doing it again in a hurry.

And with a mega brand like Star Wars they have to have lawyers looking at this shit day in day out at Hasbro / Disney yet nothing is done. They allow this bollocks to stand. Repro anything is copyright breach. End of story. It’s illegal.

I don’t think for a minute it’s a collectors responsibility to shut these “counts” down. It’s the companies responsibly - so why are they ignoring this ?

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Re: The day is coming....repro MOC

Postby lejackal » Thu Jul 26, 2018 12:31 am

Leemcl wrote:I don’t understand how the repro market is allowed to exist.

99.9% of time you put any copyrighted image on something someone, be it a company themselves or a 3rd party agent of the company, hit you so hard with a copyright breach you won’t be doing it again in a hurry.

And with a mega brand like Star Wars they have to have lawyers looking at this shit day in day out at Hasbro / Disney yet nothing is done. They allow this bollocks to stand. Repro anything is copyright breach. End of story. It’s illegal.

I don’t think for a minute it’s a collectors responsibility to shut these “counts” down. It’s the companies responsibly - so why are they ignoring this ?

Because they’re not copying current products at a guess? It would be nice if there was a cease and desist order sent to the cocks responsible though.....

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Re: The day is coming....repro MOC

Postby Leemcl » Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:58 am

I see your point about “current” product but surely copyright lasts beyond the initial product life cycle. If you look at the Mocs we have they have copyright all over them. A quick google suggests copyright is valid for 70 years after the works published.

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Re: The day is coming....repro MOC

Postby peekaygee73 » Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:57 pm

Leemcl wrote:I see your point about “current” product but surely copyright lasts beyond the initial product life cycle. If you look at the Mocs we have they have copyright all over them. A quick google suggests copyright is valid for 70 years after the works published.

That's true in the UK for art, books, drama, music and films. I'm not sure how it works for something like a toy.

Put simply, unlike Kenner, Hasbro don't care about the vintage line.

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Re: The day is coming....repro MOC

Postby stormcab » Thu Aug 02, 2018 6:22 pm

edd_jedi wrote:It would be interesting to see a comparison of the print under a microscope. Although the new repro cards might look good at first glance, you cannot replicate the effect of litho printing with a digital print. I'm sure under close inspection it will be possible to tell the difference.


That would probably be a very good idea. If someone was to take hi-res micro photos of everything from the surface of the card, the thin side of card, the plastic seal etc then made available publicly so if people wanted to check their purchase themselves they can. Surely when you get down to the microscopic level it will be ever more impossible to replicate the exact machinery, glue, card, plastic etc from the 70s/80s


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