Woolworths Special Buy 8 Star Wars Figures for 99p Pack Research Findings

laurencedyer

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Messages
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The topic of the Woolworths 8 packs and the suggestion that there are fake packs out in the market has been raised numerous times in recent years. The packs often raise suspicion with no real clarification as to what is deemed as a pack that was mentioned as questionable or one of authenticity. 

A search of every platform thought of globally was undertaken in order to compare every sample located. The sample size has two collections omitted. The omissions were due as the collections could not be analysed effectively from the images available.

Multiple anomalies were observed during the research to a point where two different styles of packs were identified and a variant of one style of pack also observed.

After research and analysis of the complete sample size identified of the Woolworths Special Buy 8 Star Wars Figures for 99p packs, the following comparisons have been documented for consideration. 

The different stickers & packs observed have been referred to as either Palitoy or Suspect for clarity.

There are 10 observations for consideration.

1.Price Sticker Font Comparison.
2.Price Sticker Size & Durability Comparison.
3.Bag Variations & Sticker Combination, Construction & Manufacture Quality.
4.Palitoy Created Special Offer Price Stickers
5.Special Buy offer stickers font printing methods and ink characteristics
6.Woolworths 8 Pack Population.
7.Pack Contents.
8.Figure comparison analysis.
9.Packs with baggies and their content anomalies.
10.Timeline of all 3 pack variants recording the dates that each pack were noticed from the search findings.

Observation 1.

Price Sticker Font Comparison.

The pack styles as mentioned on the introductory thread are referred to in each post as either a Palitoy or a Suspect for clarification.
Where possible I will present the comparisons of each thread laid out firstly of a Palitoy font and then of a Suspect font.

The first difference that was observed whilst undertaking this research was that of the font between the two different pack styles.

The initial difference noticed was that of the number 9's and the P from the 99p of the price label.
The centre of the Palitoy number nine seemed more oval then that of the Suspect number nine which was rounder in shape.
The P from the Pence after the number nine was also different. The Palitoy P was smaller in size than that of the P on the Suspect pack.

This image is of the Palitoy and Suspect label side by side.

From this image you can see the 9 & P from the Palitoy label on the left has a more oval centre and the P is smaller in size. The Suspect label on the right has a rounder centre and as you can see has a bigger letter P.

20180529_191252.jpg


The next observation that was made was that the Palitoy label had two different print layouts.


The variation to the label was the layout of the text itself. The S from the word STAR and the F from the word FIGURES are positioned differently.
It was also noticed that both of the Palitoy variant of label had a thicker font to that of the Suspect label. For clarity when the fonts are referred to as a Thick font this is referring to both Palitoy label fonts and if the font is referenced to as Thin font this is referring to the Suspect font.

These two styles of print have been termed as Offset and Inline due to the positioning of the F in Figures to the S in Star.

This image shows the positioning of the letters for the Offset label.

Palitoy variation 1.jpg


This image shows the positioning of the letters for the Inline label.

Palitoy variation 2.jpg


The next image shows 4 examples together of the Palitoy created labels. The top two empty bags are both of the Offset variant and the bottom two are of the Inline variant as highlighted on this image.

Offset & Inline labels.jpg


With three variants of font identified, two being considered of a Palitoy created label and one of Suspect created label a simple test was conducted by digitally overlaying the different font styles with each other.

The test was conducted by trying to line up all the different words with nothing on the Thick or Thin fonts lining up at all.

The next two images show the thick font vs thin font results. As you can see the text does not line up at all based on either the sticker size (image 1) or the text itself (image 2.) This shows that the fonts and font sizes are different.

Overlay test 1. Sticker.

Overlay 1.jpg


Overlay test 2. Text.

overlay2.jpg


The next two Images, Overlay test three and four show that if you overlay the Palitoy label genuine thick font figure and playset stickers from other Special Buy items, although the content is different, both the 'special buy' and '99p' line up perfectly showing it is the same font and font size.

Overlay test 3. Special Buy.

Overlay 3.jpg


Overlay test 4. 99p.

Overlay 4.jpg


Palitoy label used for both the Overlay tests 1 & 2 & also for the Overlay tests 3 & 4.

Overlay example used 2.jpg


Suspect label used for the Overlay tests 1 & 2.

Overlay example used 1.jpg
 

laurencedyer

Jedi Knight
Joined
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Messages
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Hoth playset Special Buy Sticker used for Overlay test 3 and 4.

Overlay example used 3.jpg


Font identity.

With the results of the thick font vs thin font Overlay test demonstrating that the text does not line up at all based on either the sticker size or the text itself and that the fonts and font sizes are different both the Palitoy and Suspect fonts were next determined.

The next Image is of the fonts that were used between the two packs.

The Palitoy is on the left and Suspect is on the right. Both packs use the same typeface although the suspect is notably different due to the poor replication it actually appears thinner. It has been confirmed by an expert in printing that although the appearance looks different the Suspect is of the same font. The only font difference is that of the 99p as labelled on the image.

The style of the fonts to the two labels have been replicated with ease as demonstrated.

35438348_1964772943813238_2605770698731290624_n.jpg


Font Ink comparison.

The Ink of each label was observed for both the Palitoy label and the Suspect label.

The next image compares the Special Buy form the top of the label of the Palitoy labels ink above that of the Suspect labels ink.
The Palitoy ink has a thicker finish to the edges of the letters & numbers with Ink build up present which is clear to see.
This ink build up can be demonstrated by comparing both label finishes to the letter B from Buy.
This comparison of the finish to the letters can also be easily noticed from the straight edges of the letters. The Palitoy edges are not straight where as the Suspect is defined with straight edges.

This different print of the inks.

20180529_191519.jpg


This bumpy and straight edge finish of the letters is demonstrated this with the side edge of the 'A' having a bumpy finish for the Palitoy ink and a straight edge from the Suspect ink on the next two images.
The inner corner of the triangle of the 'A', the Vertex is also a good example of the ink finish as the ink finish does not give the vertex straight precise corners to the Palitoy ink whereas the Suspect has.

Palitoy A Ink.

38085079_2008872002736665_1355556674357690368_n.png


Suspect A Ink.

38139479_2008901712733694_8524995730161532928_n.jpg


The next images shows the comparison of the word FOR. The Palitoy Ink can be seen to have bled during its printing process with the Suspect Ink not showing the same characteristic.

Palitoy print showing bleed

38238169_2008872516069947_6124613210793312256_n.png


Suspect print

20180529_191458.jpg
 

laurencedyer

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Joined
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Messages
488
Observation 2.

Price Sticker Size & Durability Comparison.


The next observations to compare are that of the Special Price sticker itself.

This Image is of the Suspect label laid on top of the Palitoy label. As you will see they are not the same size.

35403841_1964788463811686_5235771584311984128_n.jpg


The width of the Palitoy label has been measured on 5 different examples. The sample size of the Palitoy examples used for this comparison is 3 x Inline labels & 2 x Offset labels.
For clarity, the sample size of 2 Offset labels in lieu of 3 as the other two variations was due to access.

The 5 labels all measured the same width. This measurement recorded is 76mm.
The first example was measured by myself with four independent measurements and images to confirm the measurements provided by independent collectors.

Palitoy label width.

20180529_191617.jpg


Magnified start of measurement

20180529_191621.jpg


Magnified end of measurement

20180529_191624.jpg


The width of the Suspect label has been measured on 3 different examples.

The 3 labels measured the same width. This measurement recorded is 74mm.
The first example was measured by myself with two independent measurements taken and confirmed. Images to confirm the measurements of one were provided for documentation whilst the other confirmation was verbally given.

Suspect label width.

20180529_191701.jpg


Magnified start of measurement

20180529_191706.jpg


Magnified end of measurement

20180529_191709.jpg


Palitoy the Imperial force.

A valuable point to offer for consideration regarding the Palitoy created label is that of the change to the 'Metric System'.

It was bought to my attention from a collector of Action Man that Palitoy used imperial measurements.
In the AM collecting community reproduced items are accepted. He offered me an example regarding an item. The item was an eye glass.
The eye glass had several attempts by different collectors to be reproduce and each attempt was incorrect. The unsuccessful attempts had used 12 mm and 13 mm as the measurements for the reproduction. He made several attempts from 12.1 mm to 12.7 mm until he managed to succeed.
For your reference the conversion from inches to millimetres is often accepted as 25 mm. The actual conversion is 1 inch equates to 25.4 mm.
The eye glass had been created at a size of half an inch hence the inability to duplicate this item correctly using the metric measurements.

The relevance of this information is to offer for your consideration that imperial measurements had been used by Palitoy at this time.
The Palitoy sticker measurements recorded and offered have been documented at 76 mm. Although all of the research and measurements recorded during the research have been undertaken in metric measurements it is now believed that the labels were created at a size of 3 inches.
3 inches converts to 76.2 mm.

Greater magnification of the end photo of a Palitoy label demonstrating that the width is marginally wider than the 76mm previously recorded.

38005564_2006618109628721_3711197840798646272_n.jpg


A further comparison to the labels has been observed which is that of the colour to the reverse of the labels.
The Palitoy label has a yellow colour to the rear. The Suspect label has a white colour to the rear.


The Palitoy label is the one to the left of the image (identified by the 'P') which has had the Suspect label (identified by the S) placed on top for the comparison.

Age comparison.jpg


Image of the Palitoy label reverse which can be seen in a yellow colour

35405313_1964788863811646_6298859063329423360_n.jpg
 

laurencedyer

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Messages
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Image of the Suspect label reverse which can be seen in a whiter colour

FB_IMG_1532229461167.jpg

A further comparison of the Palitoy and Suspect packs can also be observed from the glue residue.

The Palitoy label shows a dirt line where the edge of the label has been peeled back.

35548114_1964788967144969_9071909117513170944_n.jpg

Dirt line magnified

FB_IMG_1532229480313.jpg

This image is of a further Palitoy example which has the same characteristics of a dirt line to the glue residue.

Palitoy label residue.jpg

The Suspect bag can be observed with a glue residue line. This line is free of a dirt build up.

You will notice that the three arrows at the top of the image all point to the residue line and a further arrow points to the sticker itself.
The arrow at the bottom is pointing to wear to the label itself which is the comparison that follows.

35459922_1964789157144950_6869308751204057088_n.jpg

Magnified image of the Suspect label.

35428366_1964789223811610_2841882406955253760_n.jpg

image of the Suspect label folded back image

35628971_1964789180478281_4324079877117444096_n.jpg

The final comparisons of the labels are that of the durability and wear to the ink used and also that of the material used for the label itself.

This image I have shows the Palitoy label to the left with the Suspect label to the right.
This shows the difference of the prints durability and also the durability of the material used for both the Palitoy label compared to the Suspect label.

The image has been marked with red circles and blue arrows.
The red circles are pointing out areas of wear to the ink.
The blue arrows are pointing out areas of wear to the material of the labels.

The ratio of red circles between the two label types demonstrates that after more than 30 years the Palitoy labels ink still retains a good finish with no areas of obvious or heavy wear.
The Suspect labels ink has worn in areas. This wear is observed were the label has been creased.
The durability of the ink to the Palitoy label and the ease of the inks wear to the Suspect label can be observed frequently.

The ratio of blue arrows also demonstrates the difference between the durability of the material used for both packs label. Not every piece of wear has been pointed out but has given a fair sample for consideration.

The red arrow on the image from the previous observation (3 images above) regarding the lack of a dirt line to the Suspect labels glue residue, this additional arrow was pointing to a point of the Suspect label that appears to be stressed due to the creasing and possibly torn[ATTACH type="full" alt="Label comparison ink durability.

[attachment=0]20180529_191252.jpg"]0[/ATTACH]
 

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laurencedyer

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Joined
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Messages
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Observation 3.

Bag Variations & Sticker Combination, Construction & Manufacture Quality.


The outer bag construction is the third observation to consider.

It has been observed that there are three different bag variations.
Two of the bags are considered as being a Palitoy creation & one bag being considered that of a Suspect creation.

The top two bags in the first image are that of a folded seal to the bottom edge.
The bottom two bags are that of a heat sealed finish to the bottom edge.
The heat sealed bags are in tandem with the Inline font price stickers as you can see from the images.
The folded seal bags are in tandem with the Offset font price stickers.


All of the Palitoy created packs identified in the search have been studied to confirm the theory of these two Palitoy combinations with no exception.

For clarification all of the packs that both the bottom seal and the price sticker combinations were able to be identified conformed to this rule. Several pack combinations could not be identified from the images from the search and there was also a few packs that the collectors from the search were unable to access for a medium period of time.

The Palitoy created pack combinations have been observed 8 times with the Heat Seal / Inline style and 6 times with the Folded Seal / Offset style bags.

From this point on for documentation purposes the different Palitoy sticker & bag combinations will be referred to as either a Heat Sealed / Inline variant or a Folded seal / Offset variant.

The Suspect bag and font combination appears to have been created to that of the Folded / Offset style.

The four Palitoy created outer bags in the images demonstrate the two combination.

The top two bags are that of a Fold Seal / Offset. The bottom two are that of a Heat Seal / Inline.

Outer bag seals.jpg

The two Palitoy font variants as marked.

Offset & Inline labels.jpg

The observations made of the construction between the Palitoy and Suspect outer bags are the next comparisons to consider.

This image is that of a Suspect bag on the left with a Heat Sealed / Inline Font bag to the right.

20180529_190745.jpg

The following image is of the bottom corner of a Suspect bag above a Palitoy Heat sealed bag.

The Suspect bag is the top bag and the Palitoy bag is the bottom bag.

Observe that the edge to the Suspect bag appears to be jagged slightly.

20180529_190845.jpg

This next image is of a Palitoy Folded seal bag for clarity as the Palitoy bag imaged for comparison with the Suspect is that of a heat seal.


For clarification, this outer bag has been observed with an empty baggie inside. This baggie is that of the Leia Poncho that came with the Endor Chase Playpack and has been observed in the 8 packs.

Palitoy folded seal 1.jpg

Palitoy Fold Seal corner image (includes corner of baggie to photo, as above)

The bag has been imaged in an upright position with the fold seal to the bottom.

Palitoy folded seal 2.jpg

Suspect corner image.

The bag has been imaged in an upright position with the fold seal to the bottom.

A difference in construction between the Palitoy bag and Suspect bag can be observed with the side seal. The difference in the finish has been highlighted by the shadow from the light on this image. The seal to the side appears serrated.

20180529_190906.jpg

Palitoy bag side image.

The side seals can be observed to be well defined and sharp in the finish of their manufacture. These side finishes are similar to the seal at the bottom of the bag.

20180529_191116.jpg

Suspect bag side image

The side seal can be observed to be rugged and jagged with the finish of their manufacture. These side finishes are exaggerated by the shadow from the light. The exaggeration of the shadow does give you thought for consideration.

20180529_190922.jpg


The sharp and defined side finish to the Palitoy bag can be observed clearly with a side image.

20180529_191035[1].jpg
 

laurencedyer

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Messages
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The serrated side finish to the Suspect bag can be observed clearly with a side image.

20180529_190942[1].jpg


The same poor style of finish can be observed with this image from a sealed Suspect bag.

Sealed Suspect bag.jpg


The difference in the thickness and the durability to the plastic of the Palitoy and Suspect bags when comparing them side by side should be considered.

The comparisons between the plastic is hard to capture through a camera and demonstrate through pictures.
The side by side pictures are attempting to show a difference of the thickness with the Palitoy bag being harder to see through with a murkier look and the Suspect being easier to see through. The images showing the open end hopefully show a difference in the thickness of the plastic.

Plastic compasrison.jpg


untitled.png

The difference in the thickness and the durability to the plastic of the Palitoy and Suspect bags can be compared from observing the next four images.

This image is of a Palitoy bag that has presumably been torn open when originally purchased to get at the figures. Due to the thickness of the Palitoy created bag, the plastic where the bag has been torn open at the area it would have originally been taped up has formed a raised edge and has surprisingly held its shape for this long.

Palitoy bag thickness.png

The next 3 images are of a Suspect bag. These images demonstrates that the plastic has far less durability than that of the Palitoy bag due to the bag having numerous holes to it. These holes have presumably been created from the contents.
This can be seen both above and below the price label as pointed out.

Suspect bag quality.png


Suspect bag quality 2.png


Suspect bag quality 3.png
 

laurencedyer

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Messages
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Observation 4.

Palitoy Created Special Offer Price Stickers

To support the claim that the "Palitoy applied sticker" being of genuine creation by Palitoy and that the "Suspect sticker" of being created at a later point in time and not of creation by Palitoy, numerous other "Special Buy" sticker items have been observed.

The sample of the stickers has been taken from numerous sources including Facebook Groups, Forums and auctions such as eBay & Vectis.

The observation made from all of the images found has been that the font style matches that of the "Palitoy applied Sticker". The easiest way to identify these are by simply looking at the number 9's and the shape of the centre.

No Suspect font style has been identified as of yet on any other Star Wars items whether it be a Mini Rig, Beast or Vehicle, POTF Playpack or items like a Plush Ewok. The "Suspect Font" has only been observed on the "Suspect Woolworths Pack's".

A small sample of example are presented for your observation.

FB_IMG_1529266525895.jpg


FB_IMG_1526426731739.jpg


FB_IMG_1532226830904.jpg


IMG_20170214_091817.jpg


FB_IMG_1532226937370.jpg
 

laurencedyer

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Joined
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Messages
488
Observation 5.

Other Palitoy Special Buy Sicker Font / Ink


Further to the observations in the previous post (observations 4) regarding the Suspect Font not being noticed on any other Special Buy Offer Sticker, samples of other palitoy Special Buy offer stickers font printing methods and ink characteristics were observed.

The 2 sets of image's below are of a Speeder Bike a Radar Laser Canon.

You will observe that both examples have similar characteristics to both Palitoy stickers and none share any characteristics of the Suspect sticker.

Palitoy font left / Suspect font right

20180529_191252.jpg

Trilogo Radar Laser Cannon

Laser Canon 1 18.06.18.jpg

Laser Canon 2 18.06.18.jpg

Laser Canon 3 18.06.18.jpg

Laser Canon 4 18.06.18.jpg

Laser Canon 5 18.06.18.jpg


Speeder Bike

Speeder Bike 1 18.06.18.jpg

Speeder Bike 2 18.06.18.jpg
 

laurencedyer

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Joined
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Messages
488
Observation 6

Woolworths 8 Pack research data.

When the research was first undertaken a search for all the packs available on all platforms that could be thought of to create a population report was conducted in order to complete a comprehensive comparison.

The four forums, Star Wars Forum UK, Rebel Scum, The Imperial Gunnery & Tantive XI where thoroughly searched. Vectis past sales, eBay, Worthpoint for past eBay sales and the SWCA were also searched. Every Facebook Group thought of including the pages of Nine Holy Grails, CAS, The Vintage Rebellion, Farthest From as well as reaching out to collectors was also searched to create the population.

The total population of Woolworth's packs that was documented excluding the items of 2 collectors totalled 47.

The documented quantity of Palitoy created packs totalled 33 and the documented quantity of Suspect packs totalled 14.

The Palitoy packs were observed in all nature of states, i.e. empty bag's, moc up displays, opened or sealed. The breakdown of the packs are, 13 empty bags, 9 open packs, 3 sealed, 1 resealed, 4 were duplicated & 3 sealed packs were observed on RS during the Billy Boy era. For this reason the RS packs have been documented but excluded from any analysis. There are two open bags on RS that have been included into the data of 9 open packs.

The total of Palitoy packs with contents for comparison purposes is 13. The 13 packs consist of the 9 open, 3 sealed and 1 resealed for comparison.

The 14 Suspect packs are all sealed. There is one item that is duplicated twice, so excluding this item gives us a total observed sample of 12 packs for comparison purposes.

Palitoy created packs


pack 1.png

pack 2.jpg

LA thread 29.03.18 front.jpg

Vintage Collecting chat - Dreams do come true 02.09.14.jpg

Vintage valuation thread 21.09.17.JPG

Lot 262 15.05.15.jpg

Lot 263 15.05.15.jpg

Lot 264 15.05.15.jpg

Lot 265 15.05.15.jpg

Lot 2137 29.05.15.jpg
 

laurencedyer

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Joined
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Messages
488
Observation 7.

Pack baggie Contents.

The baggie contents of the packs were observed and after studying all of the images of both the Palitoy created pack's and the Suspect packs, the loose figures and baggie ratios were documented. The majority of the contents could be identified but as stated on previous observation posts this data came from studying the images available. The following data becomes amended slightly on the 9th observation due to the reasons just stated. This in regards to the baggie content of the Suspect packs

The Suspect packs from the 12 located packs identified only 3 baggies. All three were present in one pack. That is a 3.125% ratio of baggies to loose.

The Palitoy packs had 48 baggies observed which is a 46.15% ratio of bagged figures to loose. There were however 11 figure that could not be determined as bagged or loose.

If you remove the 11 figures that I could not determine whether bagged or not, this becomes 51.61%.

For clarification purposes, the baggie classifications from the Palitoy created packs were also documented as displayed below.

Baggie / Volume


Palitoy a 10

Palitoy f 1

Palitoy g 1

Palitoy i 21

Palitoy k 4

Palitoy n 2

Palitoy q 1

Palitoy U 2

Endor Chase Bag (Leia Poncho) 2

ESB-d 1

ROTJ-e 1

ROTJ-h 2

Unsure if bagged 11

Loose 45

Total 104.

Suspect bag quality.png


Lot 264 15.05.15.jpg
 

laurencedyer

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Joined
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Messages
488
Observation 8.

Figure comparison analysis.

The statistics below are the individual figure numbers identified from studying both types of packs.

There are many observations to consider.

The Suspect Packs have not been observed with any Vader's, however there are 4 in the Palitoy packs. All of the Vaders are in baggies, 3 x palitoy K and 1 x Palitoy F.

Leia Endor has been observed 5 times in the Palitoy packs and not once in the Suspect packs. 4 of the Leia's were seen in baggies, 2 x The Endor Chase baggie that is specific to the figure & Twice in a Palitoy i with one being loose. It was also observed that one of the empty bags also had a Leia - Endor Chase empty baggie observed inside of it.

The suspect packs have been observed 4 times with a Jawa in the contents but this figure has not yet been observed in the Palitoy packs.

One interesting observation is that the ratio for 77 back figures is far higher for the Palitoys than that of the Suspect.

Palitoy Label v's Suspect Label

Release of Figure / Palitoy Label / Suspect Label

First 12

Luke Farmboy 0 1
Ben Kenobi 1 1
C3P0 0 0
R2D2 0 0
Leia Organa 1 1
Sandperson 0 0
Vader 4 0
DSC 0 2
Han Solo 0 0
Chewbacca 4 2
Jawa 0 4
Stormtrooper 3 1

Total 13 12

21 backs


Power Droid 0 1
DSD 0 2
R5D4 3 0
Hammerhead 1 4
Walrus Man 1 1
Greedo 0 1
Snaggletooth 0 1
LXW 1 4
Boba Fett 3 4

Total 9 18

32 backs


IG88 0 1
Boosk 0 0
Han Hoth 1 0
Luke Bespin 0 0
Leia Bespin 0 0
FX7 2 2
Hoth Stormtrooper 2 0
Hoth Rebel Soldier 1 0
Lando Calrission 0 1
WBG 1 0
Yoda 0 0

Total 7 4

45 backs


Cloud Car Pilot 2 0
BBG 0 0
AT AT Commander 1 4
Luke Hoth 0 0
C3P0 RL (in lieu of C3PO) 1 3
R2D2 Sensorscope (in lieu of R2D2) 3 0
Hoth Rebel Commander 1 0
Lobot 1 2
Han Bespin 1 1
21-b 2 0
Imperial Commander 0 2
AT AT Driver 1 0
Dengar 2 0
Leia Hoth 4 0
Ugnaught 0 0

Total 19 12

65 backs

Weequay 2 3
Ree Yees 0 2
General Madine 0 6
Lando Calrissian Skiff 2 0
Biker Scout 1 0
Bib Fortuna 0 0
Rebel Commando 1 2
Gamorrean Guard 1 2
Logray 1 0
Chief Chirpa 3 0
Admiral Ackbar 0 3
Nien Numb 0 5
Luke Jedi 4 3
Leia Boushh 3 1
Squid Head 2 2
ERG 0 1
Klaatu 1 0
Zuckuss 0 0
4-Lom 2 3
Tie Fighter Pilot 0 0

Total 23 33

77 backs


B Wing Pilot 0 0
Han Trench 1 1
8D8 4 0
Prune Face 2 3
Leia Poncho 5 0
Klaatu Skiff 3 2
Wicket 2 0
Bib Fortuna 0 0
Rancor Keeper 0 0
AT ST Driver 3 0
The Emperor 2 1
Nikto 4 3
Teebo 1 2

Total 27 13

Last 17

EV9D9 0 1
R2D2 POP UP 0 0
Han Carbonite 0 0
Warok 0 0
Imperial Dignitary 0 0
Romba 0 1
Barada 0 0
Lando General 0 0
Anakin 1 1
Luke Stormtrooper Disguise 0 0
Imperial Gunner 0 0
Luke Poncho 1 0
A-Wing Pilot 0 1
Paploo 0 1
Amanaman 0 0
Lumat 0 0
Yak Face 0 0

Total 2 5

Unsure 4 2

Total / 104 / 96
 

laurencedyer

Jedi Knight
Joined
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Messages
488
Observation 9.

Suspect packs with baggies and their content anomalies.

Before you observe the anomalies that have been identified I will clarify a couple of details regarding the text printed on some classifications of baggies.

The Chewbacca is in a Palitoy - a baggie. The characteristics of a Palitoy - a baggie are that it is a crisp tape sealed bag with light blue text printed horizontal. A characteristic of the Palitoy baggies that differs to the majority of other baggies is that the text is printed uside down as highlighted in the red box.

IMGP9889_zpsfwdnzodv.jpg


The Death Star Droid is in a Palitoy - k baggie. The characteristics of a Palitoy - k baggie are that it is soft heat sealed bag with black vertical text

IMGP9887_zpsgzbgzqao.jpg


The C3P0 is in a Kenner ESB - c baggie. The characteristic of a ESB -c are that it is a crisp tape sealed bag with Kenner written horizontally above made in Hong Kong printed horizontally in a light blue text.

IMGP7715.jpg


Palitoy horizontal positioned text baggies have the position of the text upside down.

As I mentioned on the post entitled 'Observation 7', I documented that there were only 3 baggies observed in one of the 12 suspect packs that was documented in the search when the research was undertaken. The Suspect pack with baggies included in its contents was hard to see from his photos. This pack actually has all 8 figures in baggies. The 12 Suspect pack sample offering a 96 figure sample with 93 loose and 3 bagged is incorrect. This data stands corrected at 88 loose and 8 bagged for the suspect data.

The following observations came as a result from a post of a member of a collecting platform.

The OP concludes that his Jawa is a Kenner ESB – C with the Kenner font removed. It would appear that the amendment was done to deceive and pass it off as a Palitoy baggie which it had previously succeeded in doing so. This of course is purely speculation with no foundation as is the authenticity of the Suspect packs, hence the name I have used for that variants of packs.

38000000_2006862949604237_7981973514460594176_n.jpg


38071898_2006856772938188_2749459147446550528_n.jpg


38122960_2006846856272513_5044258172244590592_n.jpg


38003744_2006846852939180_2859816725799501824_n.jpg


Baggies with an anomaly regarding the text have now also been noticed from one of the two collections that have been omitted from the research.

The following are the observation from the baggies that are visible to classify in the pictures.

There are 3 additional Suspect packs that have baggies that look like they are Kenner classified baggies and appear to have had their font tampered with in a similar way to the pack of the OP mentioned above.

The first pack has an AT-ST Driver and Weequay that are not what they seem to be.

The AT ST is in a ROTJ – C baggie and the Weequay is in a ESB – D baggie.
Both appear to have had the Kenner text removed.

FB_IMG_1529952094447.jpg


From my knowledge the AT ST is documented in 2 baggie types. They are ROTJ c & h.

AT ST.jpg


The Weequay has 5 known class's.
They are Palitoy b & n, Euro a / Meccano red sticker, ESB d & h.


37970681_2006869269603605_1856359146790584320_n.jpg


The second pack has two baggies that appear to have been altered.
They are a Klaatu Skiff ESB – D & a Teebo ROTJ – C with the Kenner removed from the baggies.


FB_IMG_1529952122036.jpg
 

laurencedyer

Jedi Knight
Joined
Aug 11, 2014
Messages
488
Klaatu Skiff has 3 styles.
Palitoy a, Euro a / Meccano red sticker & ESB d


Klaatu Skiff.jpg


Teebo has 3 styles
They are Palitoy a, ROTJ c & h.


Teebo.jpg


The third pack has numerous anomalies regarding the contents.

I was able to document the baggie class information believed to be the contents from the owner from a post on a collectors platform. They are as follows.


Vader Euro C made in Macau.
Squid head Pal K
Boba Fett Pal A
Biker scout ROTJ A
Ackbar pal b
Leia boush ROTJ A
Han trench coat ROTJ J
Wicket Pal B

FB_IMG_1529952078663.jpg

The following information should be considered. This information is of cause speculation I must add.

The Vader baggie is that found in the Clipper Mailer boxes and are common to find. The Clipper Vader baggie is not in keeping with Palitoy or the packs.

Squid is a baggie type (k). Quantities of Palitoy K baggies have already been confirmed as not authentic.

Boba Fett is a baggie that is questionable. The baggie is too wide and it is likely a bag from an Emperor.

Biker Scout ROTJ – a baggie class that is common to find.

Ackbar Pal – b is mailer box baggie that is common to find.

Leia Boush ROTJ –a common to find.

Han Trench ROTJ –a common to find.

Wicket is documented as a Palitoy b. It is hard to see what baggie he is although there is enough text to make the following observation. The letter M from Made is in an upright position as are Kenner baggies and not Palitoy as previously stated. I would suggest that this is an ESB – C with the Kenner font removed rather than a Palitoy.

Wicket can be found in 3 baggie types.
They are Palitoy a, ESB c, ROTJ h


Screenshot_20180716-001501_Messenger.jpg


After studying the images of the baggies from the complete sample of Palitoy created packs documented, not one Palitoy sealed baggie can be observed as having the text positioned in an upright position. I will point out that most Palitoy - i open baggies from all of the open 8 packs can be observed with the text positioned upright. I would suggest the collectors would have put the figures back that way as I did before I was advised differently with one of my own Palitoy - i open baggies.

The alteration of the Kenner font on these baggies is not a procedure that Palitoy would have performed before they packed the bags in order to supply Woolworths for the clearance sales.

This anomoly has not been observed in the Paltoy created packs and only in the Suspect packs.
The altered baggies are not observed in the baggie collecting community or the open market either which also compounds that these seem to have been amended.
 

laurencedyer

Jedi Knight
Joined
Aug 11, 2014
Messages
488
Observation 10.

Timeline of all 3 pack variants recording the dates that each pack were noticed from the search findings.


The date of the collectors post or the sale date that each of the three variants of packs has been recorded from where the search of the pack when first identified in order to observe a timeline.

For clarification purposes the following points need to be brought to your attention before the comparisons can be considered.

1.There will be several packs recorded with recent dates. The dates recorded for these packs are the dates that collectors responded back to me from direct messages confirming they owned one in there collection as this was also an avenue that was undertaken in the search of the packs.

2.Duplicate packs recorded will have the earliest record from the point in time the pack was identified included in the data with all other times the pack was recorded shown in the date as a duplicate to clarify the total number of packs is complete.

3.The Palitoy created packs that cannot be clearly seen to determine both the seal and the font types as a confirmed combination will be included in the data for consideration. These packs with the unconfirmed font / seal combo will be pooled together in a further category for comparison of the complete sample identified.

4.The five packs located on Rebel Scum were of 1 empty bag, 1 open pack, two sealed packs dating from the Billy Boy era and a pack that had been mocked up for demonstration with no price label. The moc up pack I have noted as so. The two sealed packs on Rebel Scum have the font / seal combo easily identifiable. For this reason I have included the two packs into a statistic for the first time.

5.The earliest recording of a Suspect pack identified is the only Suspect pack that could be found for sale on a sales platform such as an auction format.

One further point I must raise before you consider the data is that of the evolution of technology such as tablets and smart phones in conjunction to the rise of social media platforms during the last 5 years or more.

The timeline for each the three categories for Palitoy.

Offset / Fold
19.04.12
20.01.16
17.10.16
17.10.16
07.05.18

Total x 5

Inline / Heat
08.02.08
30.06.10
19.04.12
16.12.14
15.04.15
15.04.15
05.01.16
17.10.16
17.10.16
29.03.18

Total x 10

Unconfirmed font / seal combo
24.04.12
06.03.10
02.09.14
15.04.15
15.04.15
19.05.15
21.09.17
29.11.17

Total x 8

Excluded from the timeline
Moc up x 1
Unknown x 5
Duplicates x 4

Total x 10

Total Palitoy = 33


The timeline for the Suspect packs.

Suspect
14.10.14
16.06.15
30.06.15
17.11.15
16.12.15
16.12.15
06.06.16
20.09.16
19.10.16
19.10.16
08.05.18
08.05.18

Duplicates x 2

Total = 14

Total packs = 47
 

laurencedyer

Jedi Knight
Joined
Aug 11, 2014
Messages
488
Source of Origin identified.

Palitoy font source of origin.

Pack located Date of post Source Pack-status
Vectis 16.12.14 Childhood lot lot 4442 Open
Vectis 15.04.15 Childhood lot lot 262 Open
Vectis 15.04.15 Childhood lot lot 263 Open
Vectis 15.04.15 Childhood lot lot 264 Open
Vectis 15.04.15 Childhood lot lot 265 Open
Vectis 19.05.15 ??? lot 2137 Open
Vectis 25.06.15 Duplicate lot 5090 / lot 262 resubmitted Open
Vectis 28.04.16 n/a lot 4440 Empty x 4
SWFUK 21.09.17 Purchased over 15 years ago Resealed
SWFUK 19.04.12 Found in Nans wardrobe Sealed
SWFUK 19.04.12 Found in Nans wardrobe Sealed
SWFUK 29.03.18 SAS Auction March 18 Open
SWFUK 29.11.17 Ebay several years ago Moc up
SWFUK 02.09.14 Charity shop Sealed
Baggietastic 16.05.16 Duplicate from Vectis Open
Baggietastic 17.10.16 SWFUK Empty bag
Baggietastic 17.10.16 SWFUK Empty bag
Baggietastic 17.10.16 Ebay Empty bag
Baggietastic 17.10.16 Ebay Empty bag
Echobase 05.01.16 childhood open pack
Echobase 05.01.16 Poss childhood as on eBay Empty bag
Echobase 20.01.16 Poss childhood can't remember Emp bag
RS 08.02.08 n/a Billy Boy suspect
RS 04.08.08 n/a Billy Boy suspect
RS 06.03.10 Childhood purchase Open
RS 30.06.10 n/a Billy Boy suspect
RS 23.10.16 Duplicate Empty / Moc up
RS 24.04.12 confirmed 06.18 as childhood purchase Emp bag
Direct Message 07.05.18 Childhood collection Empty bag
Direct Message 05.05.18 EB sale of Empty now Moc Up

Suspect font source of origin. 

Pack located Date of post Pack-status 
SWFUK LA thread 30.06.15Jeff Glanville Sealed 
Baggietastic 19.10.16 NEC or Jeff Glanville Sealed 
Baggietastic 19.10.16 NEC or Jeff Glanville Sealed
Baggietastic 13.10.15 (duplicate of the first pack) Sealed 
Baggietastic 06.06.15 NEC or Jeff Glanville Sealed 
Baggietastic 16.06.15 Anonamous baggie member Sealed 
9 Holy Grails 16.10.16 (Duplicate of pack 1 & 3) Sealed 
Echobase 20.09.16 Farthest From by a friend Sealed 
Laurence Dyer 17.11.15 Jeff Glanville Sealed 
Laurence Dyer 16.12.15 Jeff Glanville Sealed 
Direct Message 08.05.18 Jeff Glanville Sealed 
Laurence Dyer 16.12.15 Jeff Glanville Sealed 
Worthpoint 14.10.14 eBay sale Jeff Glanville Sealed 
Direct message 08.05.18 Jeff Glanville Sealed
 

Bonsai_Tree_Ent

Jedi Master
Joined
Jun 26, 2012
Messages
985
Wow! Honestly one of the most in-depth, deeply researched, and clearly time consuming posts that I've ever seen on this forum or anywhere else in relation to the vintage hobby.

Bravo Laurence for putting this incredible info together and for sharing it with the community. This really goes to prove in the 'forums vs facebook' argument, that forums are still indispensable - and posts like this can provide a repository of deep knowledge for years to come. Thanks again for putting in so much effort - this man deserves a medal!
 

Pantzman

Padawan
Joined
Sep 6, 2014
Messages
62
Just sat here on holiday and read all of that for the last 20 minutes. Wow. Well done.
I've read it on my mobile so will read it again when I get home. Gave I missed a conclusion or is this just recorded findings and we draw our own conclusions?
Either way, we'll done for once again putting the community first.
 
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