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Woolworths Special Buy 8 Star Wars Figures for 99p Pack Research Findings

Discuss vintage Kenner and Palitoy Star Wars toys from the 1977-1985 era.
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_Lee_
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Re: Woolworths Special Buy 8 Star Wars Figures for 99p Pack Research Findings

Postby _Lee_ » Mon Aug 06, 2018 8:22 pm

And the winner for "thread of the year'...

Fantastic work Laurence. A great insight into these. I used to have three empty bags with the sticker which were found at the bottom of an Ewok village box. I still have 1 somewhere but god knows where it is. Empty bags are still desirable because you can add your own figures as a display piece.

Dont know if it helps much, but my old Special buy focus has stickers all over:

http://www.starwarsforum.co.uk/viewtopi ... Woolworths

Well done again.
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Re: Woolworths Special Buy 8 Star Wars Figures for 99p Pack Research Findings

Postby Mini99 » Mon Aug 06, 2018 10:31 pm

Wow, great collection!

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Re: Woolworths Special Buy 8 Star Wars Figures for 99p Pack Research Findings

Postby Vin3po » Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:57 pm

That was quite an amazing and informative post my friend.

The amount of investigating and comparisons you have provided is quite something, I am thinking you would be great in a forensics position :D

I am surprised you have not had many questions relating to this post as of yet, maybe many have just not read it as of yet.

With the suspect packs, have they been traced back to a certain source? have they come from one? I know Bill boy had a few of these and he was a wealth of Palitoy knowledge before he went rogue and made the fake prototype baggies and died several times etc lol. Do these suspect packs trace back to him or someone else? I sure I am not the only person wondering this?

Great job and this post will help a lot of people buying these in the future. I am sure people will scream out when reading it also realising they have suspect packs in their collections but at the same time, the amount of these I have seen pop up in the last few years was worrying too say the least considering I had only seen a handful posted over the last decade or so. The characters that have been popping up in the packs were also showing red flags if you ask me and very questionable at the most so I am glad someone has spent the time going through this and answering many questions that I have been thinking myself with the increase in these Woolies 8 packs hitting the market the last few years.

Very well done Laurence, you should be very proud of yourself for this investigation.

Cheers

Vince

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Re: Woolworths Special Buy 8 Star Wars Figures for 99p Pack Research Findings

Postby laurencedyer » Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:15 pm

The amount of investigating and comparisons you have provided is quite something, I am thinking you would be great in a forensics position :D


I don’t think I have a steady enough hand for forensics Vince.

I am surprised you have not had many questions relating to this post as of yet, maybe many have just not read it as of yet.


In response to your question from your comment regarding having not had many questions relating to this post as of yet, are you referring to collectors asking questions about their packs that may have Suspect packs in their collections.
19 Palitoy packs and 2 Suspect packs were identified from 21 packs located on the main UK sources of the Forum, Vectis & Echo. Maybe this is why questions have not been asked as the UK identified items seem largely unaffected.

With the suspect packs, have they been traced back to a certain source? have they come from one? I know Bill boy had a few of these and he was a wealth of Palitoy knowledge before he went rogue and made the fake prototype baggies and died several times etc lol. Do these suspect packs trace back to him or someone else? I sure I am not the only person wondering this?



Regarding the source of the packs I will detail the sources identified. I have been conscious of posting this data for several reasons.

One of the reasons for this is that the comparisons from the research have been able to be considered in an unbiased manner. The research seems to have been well received with no collector questioning the comparisons.

Another reason is that the source of a number of the Suspect packs trace back to one source. Unfortunately I have not yet been able to make direct contact with the source in order to establish the source further back and no accusations or allegations are being made but sharing the findings of the research that was documented.

What also needs to be considered is that these packs have been noticed for sale at events such as NEC & LFCC through other vendors as mentioned on the link below.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=30926&hilit=heads+up+fake+warning

Palitoy font source of origin.

Pack located Date of post Source Pack-status
Vectis 16.12.14 Childhood lot lot 4442 Open
Vectis 15.04.15 Childhood lot lot 262 Open
Vectis 15.04.15 Childhood lot lot 263 Open
Vectis 15.04.15 Childhood lot lot 264 Open
Vectis 15.04.15 Childhood lot lot 265 Open
Vectis 19.05.15 ??? lot 2137 Open
Vectis 25.06.15 Duplicate lot 5090 / lot 262 resubmitted Open
Vectis 28.04.16 n/a lot 4440 Empty x 4
SWFUK 21.09.17 Purchased over 15 years ago Resealed
SWFUK 19.04.12 Found in Nans wardrobe Sealed
SWFUK 19.04.12 Found in Nans wardrobe Sealed
SWFUK 29.03.18 SAS Auction March 18 Open
SWFUK 29.11.17 Ebay several years ago Moc up
SWFUK 02.09.14 Charity shop Sealed
Baggietastic 16.05.16 Duplicate from Vectis Open
Baggietastic 17.10.16 SWFUK Empty bag
Baggietastic 17.10.16 SWFUK Empty bag
Baggietastic 17.10.16 Ebay Empty bag
Baggietastic 17.10.16 Ebay Empty bag
Echobase 05.01.16 childhood open pack
Echobase 05.01.16 Poss childhood as on eBay Empty bag
Echobase 20.01.16 Poss childhood can’t remember Emp bag
RS 08.02.08 n/a Billy Boy suspect
RS 04.08.08 n/a Billy Boy suspect
RS 06.03.10 Childhood purchase Open
RS 30.06.10 n/a Billy Boy suspect
RS 23.10.16 Duplicate Empty / Moc up
RS 24.04.12 confirmed 06.18 as childhood purchase Emp bag
Direct Message 07.05.18 Childhood collection Empty bag
Direct Message 05.05.18 EB sale of Empty now Moc Up

Suspect font source of origin.

Pack located Date of post Pack-status
SWFUK LA thread 30.06.15Jeff Glanville Sealed
Baggietastic 19.10.16 NEC or Jeff Glanville Sealed
Baggietastic 19.10.16 NEC or Jeff Glanville Sealed
Baggietastic 13.10.15 (duplicate of the first pack) Sealed
Baggietastic 06.06.15 NEC or Jeff Glanville Sealed
Baggietastic 16.06.15 Anonamous baggie member Sealed
9 Holy Grails 16.10.16 (Duplicate of pack 1 & 3) Sealed
Echobase 20.09.16 Farthest From by a friend Sealed
Laurence Dyer 17.11.15 Jeff Glanville Sealed
Laurence Dyer 16.12.15 Jeff Glanville Sealed
Direct Message 08.05.18 Jeff Glanville Sealed
Laurence Dyer 16.12.15 Jeff Glanville Sealed
Worthpoint 14.10.14 eBay sale Jeff Glanville Sealed
Direct message 08.05.18 Jeff Glanville Sealed

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Re: Woolworths Special Buy 8 Star Wars Figures for 99p Pack Research Findings

Postby mr_palitoy » Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:24 pm

Jeff again. Can’t say I’m surprised!

:roll:

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Re: Woolworths Special Buy 8 Star Wars Figures for 99p Pack Research Findings

Postby slim » Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:37 pm

Great work Laurence , I am only getting back into collecting and finding all this out is truly shocking , that 8 pack I had and is listed as fake in your guide was accepted as real years back , I am fxxking gutted here as I loved that piece . Thanks for fxxk all Jeff you crook
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Re: Woolworths Special Buy 8 Star Wars Figures for 99p Pack Research Findings

Postby lejackal » Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:35 pm

There appears to be one more example of a suspect pack.....in plain sight on hi eBay profile
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Re: Woolworths Special Buy 8 Star Wars Figures for 99p Pack Research Findings

Postby momike » Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:11 pm

I imagine he has sold a good thew of them in behind the scenes deals on the strength of that image alone.

Do we think Jeff might do the right thing and come on and say where these packs originated from?

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Re: Woolworths Special Buy 8 Star Wars Figures for 99p Pack Research Findings

Postby laurencedyer » Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:42 am

slim wrote:Great work Laurence , I am only getting back into collecting and finding all this out is truly shocking , that 8 pack I had and is listed as fake in your guide was accepted as real years back , I am fxxking gutted here as I loved that piece . Thanks for fxxk all Jeff you crook


Lionel, have I stirred the collecting bug back into you buddy after contacting you for the information? If that is the case then at least something good has come from this research.

Your pack was on the list of the Suspect packs three times. The total sample size of Suspects documented is 14 with this pack identified as a duplication twice whilst being observed on collectors limelight posts.

I will point out that packs of Suspect creation have been sold at events that Jeff does not attend by traders. This is a suspect sticker from a seller at LFCC last year.

LFCC last year.jpg
LFCC last year.jpg (77.01 KiB) Viewed 566 times


Prior to my response to Vinny's questions regarding the source I attempted to contact Jeff via Marc H.
I did this in the view of fairness as it has always been a major consideration whilst gathering the data from the reaction of Jeff not having notice when the Baggie post was released.

Marc H was about to commence work and agreed to let Jeff know by text which I suggested I would give Jeff at least a couple of hours notice before I posted the data.
Marc did say that he had briefly discussed the research with Jeff and that Jeff would be willing to work we me to ascertain the origins of the packs he has had for sale.

Jeff and I have missed several calls and we have sent a couple of text messages today due to us both missing each other whilst at work.
Hopefully Jeff can potentially provide the origins of these packs and we can eliminate further examples being created in the future.

lejackal wrote:There appears to be one more example of a suspect pack.....in plain sight on hi eBay profile


Yes there is indeed.

It might appear like I have missed a blatantly obvious item to include for documentation.

The catalyst for the research started due to a pack that was too good to be true in my opinion. This pack had been the topic of conversation on a limelight post that was made on the Baggietastic Facebook Group due to the volume of last 17 figure content.
I have also had brief discussions during the last few years with like minded collectors that the quantity of loose figure packs seemed unusually high with agreement from them.

The Suspect Woolies packs had been discussed before the Baggie Investigation had started or was even considered.

Whilst searching for each item and documenting each different style of pack I also traced each pack back as you can see above regardless of what designation that pack was. This I believe is what has lead Lionel / Slim back home.

To clarify, the research was spawned from an individual pack and not that of deciding to target Jeff by an item that he now seems to have traded frequently, hence why this pack was not observed as it was not a source of supply that was initially thought of.

That all said, I probably should have gone and delved into his eBay profile but there were that many comparisons being made, literally on a daily basis that this was not thought of.

momike wrote:I imagine he has sold a good thew of them in behind the scenes deals on the strength of that image alone.

Do we think Jeff might do the right thing and come on and say where these packs originated from?


From the data recorded the sales of these packs does lend itself to that of direct sales.

Only one Suspect pack was observed for sale on any platform sourced from an eBay past sale through Worthpoint on 14.10.2014. This is the earliest Suspect pack that has been identified for sale.

vintage-starwars-woolworth-special_360_2c99da193eeace5e08c6569b685aade6.jpg
vintage-starwars-woolworth-special_360_2c99da193eeace5e08c6569b685aade6.jpg (23.27 KiB) Viewed 566 times


I personally bought two packs in the past from Jeff directly during our communications. The desire created to have an opportunity to buy something so special and rare made the purchases a must to add to the collection. I can confirm the sales of my two were behind the scenes.

Laurence Dyer purchased 1.jpg
Laurence Dyer purchased 1.jpg (91.99 KiB) Viewed 566 times


Laurence Dyer 16.12.15.jpg
Laurence Dyer 16.12.15.jpg (144.11 KiB) Viewed 566 times


The volume of Suspect packs out in the community is significantly greater than the documented size suggests. How many are actually out there, I have no idea?

When the research started the collector with the largest sample size of the packs did not share the same opinions as I did hence why his collection had been omitted from the sample. I had previously been conscious not to use or share any of his images however this image will help demonstrate the potential volume that could be out in the community.

As you will observe 1 Palitoy pack out of a display of 28

Group shot 15.12.17.jpg
Group shot 15.12.17.jpg (92.63 KiB) Viewed 566 times

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Re: Woolworths Special Buy 8 Star Wars Figures for 99p Pack Research Findings

Postby edd_jedi » Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:22 am

laurencedyer wrote:As you will observe 1 Palitoy pack out of a display of 28

Group shot 15.12.17.jpg


Worrying to see so many suspect packs have been graded

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Re: Woolworths Special Buy 8 Star Wars Figures for 99p Pack Research Findings

Postby lejackal » Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:38 am

Shit, is that Kevin's display?

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Re: Woolworths Special Buy 8 Star Wars Figures for 99p Pack Research Findings

Postby _Lee_ » Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:34 pm

As ive just moved im unable to find mine at the minute but ill post a pic asap. As i said before, i had 3 emptys from an Ewok Village box a feq years ago.

Its worrying to think that a piece of tape and a label is what people pay rediculous amounts for. I intend on shoving some figures in mine and displaying it.

This hobby is becoming even worse of a minefield than it is already. Repro MOCs and the like are quite easily spotted but it looks as though someone saw the popularity of these and had a pop. Ive seen some worrying figure combos in these, and there were some that were too good to be true i suppose.

Credit to Laurence for this great thread.
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Re: Woolworths Special Buy 8 Star Wars Figures for 99p Pack Research Findings

Postby slim » Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:39 pm

Lionel, have I stirred the collecting bug back into you buddy after contacting you for the information? If that is the case then at least something good has come from this research.



Laurence you sure did mate , its great being back in the hunt again so thanks for getting touch ! , childhood memories of picking mocs off the shelves and that feeling of whats in the post today ...great fun , but on a serious note now that i am a few short weeks into collecting a loose complete run , it appears that fakers are making this a dangerous hobby to be in ESP on these higher end multipacks and single baggies , ebay is full of them and new collectors are getting conned , if any of the mods are reading this any chance of getting this thread pinned ?
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Re: Woolworths Special Buy 8 Star Wars Figures for 99p Pack Research Findings

Postby momike » Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:06 am

Be interested in hearing what Jeff has to say about it all, keep us posted Laurence :wink:

Surprised this has not had more interest tbh, would of thought folk would be keen on getting to the bottom of this and finding out where these are coming from :?:

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Re: Woolworths Special Buy 8 Star Wars Figures for 99p Pack Research Findings

Postby sith jawa » Fri Aug 10, 2018 3:51 am

Though I am personally gutted to read and find out the 8 pack that I love dearly is suspect or to be honest,fake, I commend you on this thread and research. Top notch and a benefit to the hobby. Thank you..
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