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WATCH OUT THREAD – ANOTHER FAKE ITEM DISCOVERED

Discuss vintage Kenner and Palitoy Star Wars toys from the 1977-1985 era.
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Frunkstar
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WATCH OUT THREAD – ANOTHER FAKE ITEM DISCOVERED

Postby Frunkstar » Sun Aug 12, 2018 1:16 pm

WATCH OUT THREAD – ANOTHER FAKE ITEM DISCOVERED

I will start by saying I bought this over 6 months ago & whilst in the middle of a house move, sadly I gave it a quick glance at the time & packed it away for the move just being happy to have finally nailed down the final SW era MP for my run (foolish I know considering in retrospect), it was many many months later when settled in the new home & a display put in place it was unpacked & I looked closer & noticed some very worrying discrepancies compared to known confirmed authentic examples, so before panicking I first I reached out to some other MP collectors to ask opinions who confirmed they were not familiar with this "pink text version".

Item in question – star wars 2 pack red Snaggletooth / Greedo (Red Text) #1 No.38331-49-59412, this is the pack below -

Please note all information pertaining to the images in question can be found BELOW the image.

IMGP0628.JPG
On close inspection of the item it became evident to me it had what I would regard as multiple red flags ( text colour / text bleed out / box material / box construction / baggies seals etc) all these differences will be outlined in detail below with corresponding images.

Due to my concerns I contacted the seller & informed them I would be sending it to UKG for inspection alongside a known authentic example that has been graded & is in fact a QC sign off, so we know 100% it is authentic.


IMGP0612.JPG
Here is an image of the 2 side by side, my concerns about the packs authenticity were confirmed by UKG on delivery of the grade report below -


36283323_2106000249427391_8172305338075185152_o.jpg


36306959_2106000309427385_2111110952949645312_o.jpg


36318895_2106000286094054_5220330236285026304_o.jpg
At this time I contacted the seller of the pack & shared UKG's report with them in hopes of a refund, sadly the seller said time had passed & actually told me "buyer beware" & they were not willing to entertain a refund under any circumstances regardless of the packs authenticity, now up until this point I had regarded the seller a fair & unbiased collector & a friend, at this point I'm not going to name the seller, but would like feedback from collectors on what would be expected from a seller under these circumstances, I will add this is a high ticket item coming in at 750GBP + fee's + postage + the report costs &&&

The baggies are also as stated fakes, the seals do not conform to other know examples - I own several & have cross checked them against the ones from the other graded pack that was submitted along side this one, luckily a fellow collector was very kind in sending me his to have opened & checked for the purpose of comparison.
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Last edited by Frunkstar on Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:42 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: WATCH OUT THREAD – ANOTHER FAKE ITEM DISCOVERED

Postby Frunkstar » Sun Aug 12, 2018 3:22 pm

COMPARISONS & REASONING

Some side by sides shots showing the construction / box other material, note the smooth white finish to the suspect pack VS the off white of the authentic & gaining within the outer sleeve on the authentic which is not present on the suspect pack, all known authentic examples that have been looked at by multiple collectors all have the gaining/particulates within the outer.

IMGP0613.JPG
Suspect to the left


IMGP0614.JPG
suspect to the left


IMGP0615.JPG
suspect to the left


IMGP0616.JPG
suspect on the bottom


IMGP0617.JPG
suspect at the bottom


IMGP0618.JPG
suspect at the bottom


IMGP0619.JPG
authentic inner


IMGP0620.JPG

authentic VS suspect overlay, suspect pack is above / authentic underneath, note the miss cut on the suspect which is highly doubtful to have been cut/pressed at point of production for kenner IMO


same as above highlighting the miss cut
IMGP0620 - Copy.JPG
IMGP0631.JPG
suspect at bottom, note the difference in colour of the cardboards.

It is worthy of note that a smell test was done, the suspect pack smells like cardboard & has no signs of mustiness / age you would associate with a 30++ year old piece of cardbaord, though this was just done out of interest & obviously is not something I can show online through images.
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Last edited by Frunkstar on Sun Aug 12, 2018 5:02 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: WATCH OUT THREAD – ANOTHER FAKE ITEM DISCOVERED

Postby Frunkstar » Sun Aug 12, 2018 3:42 pm

CARDBOARD MAKEUP & BOX OUTER CLOSE UP's & WEIGHT COMPARISONS

IMGP0622.JPG


IMGP0634.JPG


IMGP0635.JPG


IMGP0636.JPG
The above 4 images try to show the difference in the actual cardboard type used in the construction of the 2 boxes, the thinner one is the known authentic, which shows some signs of wear from the years


IMGP0634.JPG
this one highlights some tearing on the close up's showing this has likely been hand cut rather than factory pressed, it is a close up of the suspect pack, with again the genuine below, devoid of any such imperfections.


IMGP0624.JPG


IMGP0625.JPG
The above shows the authentic pack being weighed on some accurate scales which read to 0.01g


IMGP0626.JPG



IMGP0627.JPG
this shows the suspect again being weighed on the same scales with a considerable difference in weight, note that even though the authentic would appear to be made of a thinner construct of cardboard is weight is significantly more.
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Last edited by Frunkstar on Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: WATCH OUT THREAD – ANOTHER FAKE ITEM DISCOVERED

Postby Frunkstar » Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:01 pm

FURTHER COMPARISONS

red cantina - Copy.jpg
This is the gaining / particulates within the outer sleeve of the authentic pack which seem to be found on all authentic packs checked, these are not evident on the suspect packs which have a plain white finish.


IMGP0629.JPG


IMGP0629 - Copy.JPG
Known authentic font colour shots - solid red / straight edges, no bleed out


IMGP0628.JPG


IMGP0628 - Copy.JPG
suspect pack - pink / lots of bleed out not straight edged, also note the filled in A etc due to the amount of bleed out of the ink.


___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________






IMGP0628 - Copy.JPG

IMGP0629 - Copy.JPG
suspect above / authentic below

lastly the 2 fonts shown in close proximity to show just how much they differ both in colour & print / bleed etc, these super close images also really do illustrate the difference in texture of the 2 box ousters, with the authentic looking quite rough / textured up close

I am not posting pictures of the baggies as it is near impossible to pick out the patterning within the heat seals on a photo, but under magnification is is clear the heat seals do not match known authentic examples.
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Re: WATCH OUT THREAD – ANOTHER FAKE ITEM DISCOVERED

Postby Cardbackkid » Sun Aug 12, 2018 5:14 pm

It really is endless with all these fakes about ... such a shame , sorry to hear yet again that you have been stung .

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Re: WATCH OUT THREAD – ANOTHER FAKE ITEM DISCOVERED

Postby Richard_H » Sun Aug 12, 2018 5:30 pm

FFS - and I thought things like that only happened to me
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Re: WATCH OUT THREAD – ANOTHER FAKE ITEM DISCOVERED

Postby Mini99 » Sun Aug 12, 2018 5:37 pm

So sorry to read that you have bought an expensive fake item, it really is becoming very worrying buying SW collectables!
Many thanks for posting another great piece of detective work so others can benefit from it and use it to determine the authenticity of future purchases , you should be commended.
What with Laurence’s revelations this is two big scandals in as many weeks, shocking!
Do you know the original source of this item or is it a piece that has gone through many hands over the years?
Again many thanks for the time and effort that you have put in the expose this.

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Re: WATCH OUT THREAD – ANOTHER FAKE ITEM DISCOVERED

Postby Cazza » Sun Aug 12, 2018 5:41 pm

This is so sad. Great work, Frank and thanks for sharing.
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Re: WATCH OUT THREAD – ANOTHER FAKE ITEM DISCOVERED

Postby slim » Sun Aug 12, 2018 5:54 pm

Vow...the amount of fakes about these days is jaw dropping , am sad you have been stung again Frank :-(
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Re: WATCH OUT THREAD – ANOTHER FAKE ITEM DISCOVERED

Postby Michael Sith » Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:20 pm

This is very sad to see mate, very worrying indeed for collectors and potential collectors of baggies and MP s.
Can't believe you've been stung again bud, and the caveat emptor being thrown at you. Hopefully the right and decent thing will happen, as others have said, thank you for highlighting for others and going to the lengths you have, looking out for fellow collectors.
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Re: WATCH OUT THREAD – ANOTHER FAKE ITEM DISCOVERED

Postby slim » Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:08 pm

Guys , I have got the bug back " thanks laurence " and have been collecting 2 weeks now and I have to say I am sickened to death by all these fakes , time to name and shame these people !!
The Jedi are extinct, their fire has gone out of the universe. You, my friend, are all that's left of their religion !

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Re: WATCH OUT THREAD – ANOTHER FAKE ITEM DISCOVERED

Postby R2lover » Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:32 pm

Unfortunately for the seller, the financial responsibility should always be passed back down the line as far as possible. In reality though, this rarely happens. Sorry to hear this Frank.

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Re: WATCH OUT THREAD – ANOTHER FAKE ITEM DISCOVERED

Postby momike » Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:41 pm

You thinking this pack is not right is one thing but it seems you did the correct thing here in seeking a second opinion, imo that most definitely is grounds for a no questions refund just on the baggies being rejected alone, the buyer beware comment is very worrying and not the gentlemen like attitude I have come to know and admire in my years collecting, sadly it’s a more and more common occurance these days as is the repro/fake rubbish :cry:

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Re: WATCH OUT THREAD – ANOTHER FAKE ITEM DISCOVERED

Postby Snaketibe » Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:42 pm

Thanks for highlighting this for the Forum, and of course, I am very sorry to hear that you bought a fake.

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Re: WATCH OUT THREAD – ANOTHER FAKE ITEM DISCOVERED

Postby subzero » Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:44 pm

Whoever faked this it seems they've directly copied the text either from scanning an original or from a photo, because all the 'waviness' on the words on each box exactly matches.

Sorry to hear the news about this.
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