Solving problems in the hobby - how?

How do you solve a problem in the hobby

  • Stand up for something you think is wrong even if it may disadvantage you

    Votes: 45 95.7%
  • Do nothing and hope it goes away

    Votes: 2 4.3%

  • Total voters
    47

edd_jedi

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As I'm sure you all know the hobby has never been perfect and there have always been fakes, scammers etc. I've seen some alarming posts by people I respect over the last few weeks regarding recent scandals along the lines of "I wish all this would go away" or "these things are sucking the life out of the hobby."

Now I completely agree with these two statements, however this is not a perfect world and burying your head in the sand rarely makes problems go away. So I'm genuinely interested what people think is the best approach to resuming harmony in the collecting world when these scandals come to light. I have put myself and the forum on the line on several occasions over the years by supporting the outing of these people and their practices, I'm starting to feel like nobody else is doing the same whether it be a grading company, Facebook group, event etc who are indirectly harbouring these people. Keen to hear your thoughts.
 

indianawars

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The reason I stay quiet these days is that the collecting community feels far more bitter than it ever was. I've seen so many members who were so active for so many years have now stopped. The clear waters of collecting have now turned into a swamp. Don't get me wrong, it was never perfect, but it was a lot safer than it is today. It'll never be fixed for as long as there's big money to be made by crooks, and the people supporting them by continuing to buy from them.
 

TheJabbaWookie

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I have often felt that us Brits are pretty useless when it comes to informative debate. I once had an Italian girlfriend and when I travelled to Italy I was struck by how much political and general debate there was, be it over the family dinner table or out with friends in the pub. Debates were heated and passionate but they were never aggressive, confrontational or abusive, and there was always a willingness to understand, learn and embrace opinion.

Brits also have a tendency to bury heads in the sand; a nation of polite queuers, who'll unhealthily bottle up anger, but will sit back and hope someone else will sort out the problems. The internet has enabled us to become keyboard warriors who'll willingly spurt angry conjecture, whilst failing to embrace research and healthy debate.

I of course generalise, jest and exaggerate but there are definitely some home truths about our little SW Community.
 

Snaketibe

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If collectors do nothing the problem won't go away, it will only get worse. Money, ultimately, is of course the cause of the current problems, since if vintage was worthless there would be no motivation for greedy, unscrupulous assholes to try to exploit collectors with fakes and other cons. And since money isn't going away anytime soon, neither will the problems this hobby faces. In fact, they are only likely to get worse for as long as the popularity of vintage continues and prices keeping increasing.

The solution to problems like these is never to do nothing; do nothing and nothing will change (at least for the better). The answers aren't simple or easy either, but as a wise man once said, 'The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.'

If we are indeed good men (and I like to think that most of us are), then we cannot ignore the current problems in the hobby. As such, highlighting repros, pointing out fakes, calling out fraudsters and exposing conmen is definitely the right thing to do. Helping to educate ourselves and fellow collectors, both new and old, to spot dodgy items and bad practices will help benefit everyone in the long run. Many people are of course already doing precisely this, but we all need to play our part and remain vigilant.

This hobby is supposed to be fun, and it IS fun! Being ripped off isn't fun, but that's not the fault of the hobby. It's not our fault as collectors either, unless we collectively throw our hands up and let the fraudsters do want they want without challenge.

If we all remain vigilant and continue to highlight problems as they arise in the hobby, exposing the people and practices responsible, and instead help to educate and protect ourselves and one another, it will go a long way towards minimising the dangers.
 
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Educate yourself so you won't get taken for a ride . I've bought nothing fake so far . Only buy from established people , don't buy on a whim from an unknown. Look at the dam card ,isn't that hard to know if it's genuine. Any doubts stay away .
 

Mini99

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I believe that most on here like to think that they can hold their heads up high and be counted when called upon, I know I would.

So asfar as I'm concerned we must expose the things that will harm the hobby and eventually ourselves as collectors.

I think that we would all like to think that we would do the right thing in life so why would we not do the right thing within this small community, let others groups do what they feel is right, lets stand up and be counted for the right reasons.

I personally don't add to the posts about such things as I feel that there are collectors that are far more experienced in thier field than I will ever be, but we must support these people who expose a scandal and then pay a heavy price for doing so.
 

subzero

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Iv'e chosen to go out of my way to go after a good few ebay scammers on occasions in the past, even something as simple as sending them a message or two to let them know you're on their case and that you know what they're doing can make them think twice about carrying on with their scam, once they realise people are messaging them calling out what they're doing they can end listings sometimes, but only a very small amount will listen.

However we all know it's like a game of 'whack-a-mole', you get rid of one scammer and another one or two pop up, there's an endless supply of them. Lately iv'e kind of gone off wanting to even do anything about it because like I say there's just too many of them popping up all the time and you can never stop it, if there's one thing iv'e learned from selling on ebay over the years it's to never underestimate the damn persistence of low lives wanting to make a few quid. Once they've got an idea in their head to copy something or make money from a scam a lot of them just keep trying and trying no matter how much you affect them, and coming back like a disease under multiple different usernames and just carrying on.

And then to top it all off when you report very obvious scams to ebay 99% of the time they don't do ****, which really makes you want to give up. Unfortunately I believe these problems will never go away and will never be stopped, unless ebay themselves actually act, but this is only ebay of course, there's many other avenues for scammers to con collectors in.
 

Frunkstar

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It's down to us the collectors as sadly none of the grading companies or most bodies like ebay /some FB groups or the law of the land are interested or seem to care much if at all.

I have to agree with what TheJabbaWookie has written above (sad state of affairs), I have found many many collectors would rather stay quiet & not come forward whith these kind of issues, bury their heads in the sand & hope for the best, also scurry off to try to get a refund rather than coming forward & making others aware of the volume in many of the scams & fakes that are out there with ever increasing frequency, this only compounds the issue & helps the fakers & scammers propagate their dilution of the hobby, the only way to make a significant impact on the negative situation(s) we face in the hobby these days is to show a united front & make folks publicly aware when we know of an issue or think there maybe foul play at hand, I also know doing so comes at a cost,often a high cost, but IMO doing nothing comes at a much greater cost & not just a monetary one & I for one try my utmost to stay true to the hobbies integrity as well as my self regardless of the cost.

I have voted do nothing :lol: :lol:
 

lejackal

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Well i shared my opinion on Facebook and it went down a storm as ever.

I just don't understand how people cannot see this as comparable to TT. Both sold multiple thousands of pounds worth of fake items to the collecting community yet one is welcome to sell his legit stock and the other isn't :?:
 

lejackal

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And that's not to say I think either should be welcomed to sell, I think they should both be told loud and clear to get ****ed
 

Robstyley

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I haven't got the time or energy to spend worrying about it all. I don't like fake **** or dishonesty but it's not something I dwell on. I think people should stand up for what they believe in though if it's important to them. I just don't care enough about it personally, Star Wars is only a hobby. Those scammers and dodgy dealers will get their just deserves.
 

theforceuk

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lejackal said:
Well i shared my opinion on Facebook and it went down a storm as ever.

I just don't understand how people cannot see this as comparable to TT. Both sold multiple thousands of pounds worth of fake items to the collecting community yet one is welcome to sell his legit stock and the other isn't :?:

I don't understand why it's not up their with TT. Very strange. I agree with all the other post's on this thread and like Rob pointed out they will get what they deserve in the end. It's just a hobby.
 

spoons

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lejackal said:
Well i shared my opinion on Facebook and it went down a storm as ever.

I just don't understand how people cannot see this as comparable to TT. Both sold multiple thousands of pounds worth of fake items to the collecting community yet one is welcome to sell his legit stock and the other isn't :?:

It is really odd and surely only due to Jeff still having a lot of friends. It reminds me of the Todd D situation. He's always been defended by his friends too, but if anyone unknown had tried to pass a folded box flat as a boxed item or taken money for a non-existent book they would be blacklisted by everyone.

It seems fairly clear that Jeff has been faking these baggies for years yet he's still defended because he's refunded some people. He should be seen as a criminal rather than slapped on the back for refunding. People clinging to the odd box or baggie that may not be fake is a little sad and missing the point. If one of hundreds of fakes is real so what.

No-one defends Billy Boy Rogers and he did exactly the same thing. Faked baggies and then refunded those he had too (but not everyone)

I am surprised Jeffs friends seem so blinded to his actions, but you've got to admire their loyalty.
 

maxf

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Couldn't agree more Spoons. Another nail in the coffin of what was a great hobby.
 

MarkG

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Problem with all these scammers is that they've all been allowed to get away with it.

TT shafted thousands out of people, yet still is free... Jeff did the same, and is still welcomed at events. Billyboy used many an excuse, and mostly health related... he's still is about somewhere..

They've all committed fraud one way or another, and yet no force of law has been placed upon them... If people continue to get away with these scams, then more and more will follow...

There's enough evidence out there to nail all these guys, yet everyone sits back and does nothing. If charges are raised, then there may be hope it will dissuade others rom having a scam up their sleeve.
 

spoons

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MarkG said:
Problem with all these scammers is that they've all been allowed to get away with it.

TT shafted thousands out of people, yet still is free... Jeff did the same, and is still welcomed at events. Billyboy used many an excuse, and mostly health related... he's still is about somewhere..

They've all committed fraud one way or another, and yet no force of law has been placed upon them... If people continue to get away with these scams, then more and more will follow...

There's enough evidence out there to nail all these guys, yet everyone sits back and does nothing. If charges are raised, then there may be hope it will dissuade others rom having a scam up their sleeve.

Charges were certainly raised against Toni, but police forces are short on resources and as all the debate demonstrates it is really hard to prove anything. Unfortunately vintage toy crime is unlikely to be made a priority. The police and action fraud looked into Toni but without clear evidence decided to drop it
 

AllThings80s

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Mar 2, 2017
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I don't buy from any of them! It's a poor excuse to keep buying from them if your reasons are:

A) they never ripped me off.
Or
B) they had something I needed for my collection.

Hit them where it hurts, in the wallet. Especially if they depend on our money to pay the mortgage.
 

MarkG

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spoons said:
Charges were certainly raised against Toni, but police forces are short on resources and as all the debate demonstrates it is really hard to prove anything. Unfortunately vintage toy crime is unlikely to be made a priority. The police and action fraud looked into Toni but without clear evidence decided to drop it

Cheers for that. I wasn't aware of anything against TT was going on. There was at the time, 'a lot of talk', but nothing seemed to progress.
Shame it got dropped.... fraud is fraud at the end of the day, no matter what it's over.
 

spoons

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MarkG said:
spoons said:
Charges were certainly raised against Toni, but police forces are short on resources and as all the debate demonstrates it is really hard to prove anything. Unfortunately vintage toy crime is unlikely to be made a priority. The police and action fraud looked into Toni but without clear evidence decided to drop it

Cheers for that. I wasn't aware of anything against TT was going on. There was at the time, 'a lot of talk', but nothing seemed to progress.
Shame it got dropped.... fraud is fraud at the end of the day, no matter what it's over.

Agreed!

Part of the issue was not enough evidence. A lot of people would have had to give up their Tonis to make it stick

So was looking into progressing things too. You never know there may still be hope
 

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