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Important info on Potential Toy Toni carded figure scam.

Information on variations, weapons, cleaning and repair etc
jules_p
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Re: Important info on Potential Toy Toni carded figure scam.

Postby jules_p » Tue Nov 04, 2014 5:39 pm

mr_palitoy wrote:
You haven't pictured the backs of the cards.

If the storm trooper is German then it's a Toni, if it's palitoy then it's ok.
If the snow trooper is a palitoy 65d then it's a Toni, if it's a palitoy 45c then it's ok.

Cheers Jason


Thanks for chipping in Jason.

the storm is German and snow is a 65d. So it is Toni, does it mean it is a fake or just suspect as I gather he sold some genuine as well? I haven't been following the forums when this first broke out and there too many posts all over too to read the relevant bits. Cheers, Jules

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Re: Important info on Potential Toy Toni carded figure scam.

Postby mr_palitoy » Tue Nov 04, 2014 7:09 pm

jules_p wrote:
mr_palitoy wrote:
You haven't pictured the backs of the cards.

If the storm trooper is German then it's a Toni, if it's palitoy then it's ok.
If the snow trooper is a palitoy 65d then it's a Toni, if it's a palitoy 45c then it's ok.

Cheers Jason


Thanks for chipping in Jason.

the storm is German and snow is a 65d. So it is Toni, does it mean it is a fake or just suspect as I gather he sold some genuine as well? I haven't been following the forums when this first broke out and there too many posts all over too to read the relevant bits. Cheers, Jules


Those cards both look like Toni's to me. The genuine stuff he sold was Kenner and trilogo mostly.

Cheers Jason
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Re: Important info on Potential Toy Toni carded figure scam.

Postby jules_p » Tue Nov 04, 2014 11:05 pm

mr_palitoy wrote:
jules_p wrote:
mr_palitoy wrote:
You haven't pictured the backs of the cards.

If the storm trooper is German then it's a Toni, if it's palitoy then it's ok.
If the snow trooper is a palitoy 65d then it's a Toni, if it's a palitoy 45c then it's ok.

Cheers Jason


Thanks for chipping in Jason.

the storm is German and snow is a 65d. So it is Toni, does it mean it is a fake or just suspect as I gather he sold some genuine as well? I haven't been following the forums when this first broke out and there too many posts all over too to read the relevant bits. Cheers, Jules


Those cards both look like Toni's to me. The genuine stuff he sold was Kenner and trilogo mostly.

Cheers Jason


I tried to read some of this thread and there a lot to digest. Dimbles was mentioned within. The Storm card photo seem to indicate dimbles (i need to dig him out to check). Does dimbles indicate anything?

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Re: Important info on Potential Toy Toni carded figure scam.

Postby mr_palitoy » Tue Nov 04, 2014 11:56 pm

mr_palitoy wrote:
jules_p wrote:
mr_palitoy wrote:
You haven't pictured the backs of the cards.

If the storm trooper is German then it's a Toni, if it's palitoy then it's ok.
If the snow trooper is a palitoy 65d then it's a Toni, if it's a palitoy 45c then it's ok.

Cheers Jason


Thanks for chipping in Jason.

the storm is German and snow is a 65d. So it is Toni, does it mean it is a fake or just suspect as I gather he sold some genuine as well? I haven't been following the forums when this first broke out and there too many posts all over too to read the relevant bits. Cheers, Jules

Those cards both look like Toni's to me. The genuine stuff he sold was Kenner and trilogo mostly.

Cheers Jason


I tried to read some of this thread and there a lot to digest. Dimbles was mentioned within. The Storm card photo seem to indicate dimbles (i need to dig him out to check). Does dimbles indicate anything?


Yes, those dimples may mean it's okay. The video footage from the palitoy factory shows the pins to keep the bubble in place during the sealing process. For storm trooper Toni used the same bubble as the factory did. So I think you may be good on this card with those dimples being visible on the 2nd photo.

Cheers Jason
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Re: Important info on Potential Toy Toni carded figure scam.

Postby spoons » Thu Nov 06, 2014 7:22 pm

The Stormtrooper is identical to one I had and have since sold as I was convinced it was a Toni.

Took a fair hit on the sale, but the buyer has since flipped it as genuine - a murky world out there post Tonigate

Its interesting that both mine and this Stormtrooper have the dimpled bubbles. It would suggest he had preferred bubbles for certain figures/cards, or did them in batches or perhaps most controversially that they could be shop stock
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Re: Important info on Potential Toy Toni carded figure scam.

Postby jules_p » Thu Nov 06, 2014 8:29 pm

spoons wrote:The Stormtrooper is identical to one I had and have since sold as I was convinced it was a Toni.

Took a fair hit on the sale, but the buyer has since flipped it as genuine - a murky world out there post Tonigate

Its interesting that both mine and this Stormtrooper have the dimpled bubbles. It would suggest he had preferred bubbles for certain figures/cards, or did them in batches or perhaps most controversially that they could be shop stock


I definitely believe that Toni has original stock as I used to visit the display stall in Brighton over several years - I believe this is Toni's? Among the various MOCs usually included Trilogos with dents, RoTJ with yellow bubbles, mecanno Jawas - some bubbles with slight yellowing - they definitely didn't look recently sealed or pampered with, as I examined many over the years . I actually brought the snow stormie from that stall for £35 a few years ago. I am thinking it hardly be worth Toni's time to fake and sell it at that price esp if a minty stormie can easily fletch £20-25 on fleabay. These stormies were always 100% mint and unplayed with.

I can see there are some serious concerns out there - the Trilogo fetts on the early cards seem very dodgy - perhaps there more to gain with high value items or something like that. It would help Toni himself a lot if he showed a few pics of his trade cases or similar to vertify his MOCs are genuine. I take it he silent on the issue now isn't he? That really doesn't help, perhaps for introverted people or similar, they retract into their shell and shut shop when the circus spot light is on them. But sometimes, it can get too much, especially like on RS, where some folk will simply not give up. If that not the case, then there may be something to hide or it appears that way?

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Re: Important info on Potential Toy Toni carded figure scam.

Postby Dark Sith Lord » Thu Nov 06, 2014 8:36 pm

[quote="jules_p"][quote="spoons"]The Stormtrooper is identical to one I had and have since sold as I was convinced it was a Toni.

I take it he silent on the issue now isn't he?

He has never been anything other than silent mate. Speaks volumes.
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Re: Important info on Potential Toy Toni carded figure scam.

Postby jules_p » Sat Nov 08, 2014 7:16 pm

mr_palitoy wrote:
Yes, those dimples may mean it's okay. The video footage from the palitoy factory shows the pins to keep the bubble in place during the sealing process. For storm trooper Toni used the same bubble as the factory did. So I think you may be good on this card with those dimples being visible on the 2nd photo.

Cheers Jason


I got the stormtrooper card out and had another look.

There a 3rd dimble between the bubble stems above L of Ltd.

I had another good look at the seal. It is definitely done under a uniform pressure all the seal area round implying a proper pressing kit such as they had in the factory. It is no amateur sealing job for sure.

Perhaps I am risking my neck here but I think this card is genuine :shock:

Just my humble opinion

Cheers Jules

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Re: Important info on Potential Toy Toni carded figure scam.

Postby mr_palitoy » Sat Nov 08, 2014 11:02 pm

jules_p wrote:
mr_palitoy wrote:
Yes, those dimples may mean it's okay. The video footage from the palitoy factory shows the pins to keep the bubble in place during the sealing process. For storm trooper Toni used the same bubble as the factory did. So I think you may be good on this card with those dimples being visible on the 2nd photo.

Cheers Jason


I got the stormtrooper card out and had another look.

There a 3rd dimble between the bubble stems above L of Ltd.

I had another good look at the seal. It is definitely done under a uniform pressure all the seal area round implying a proper pressing kit such as they had in the factory. It is no amateur sealing job for sure.

Perhaps I am risking my neck here but I think this card is genuine :shock:

Just my humble opinion

Cheers Jules


Have looked at that factory footage again. Those pins are on the outside of the card to keep the card from moving, not on the bubble itself.
I think the dimples on the bubbles are there as part of the manufacturing process of the bubble or as the result of a tool used to hold the bubble
in place while being non factory sealed.

So I don't think they add anything either way.

Jason
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Re: Important info on Potential Toy Toni carded figure scam.

Postby theforceuk » Sat Nov 08, 2014 11:08 pm

What people think is erelevant. Hard facts are what counts and there hard to get hold of with this TT situation. :?:
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Re: Important info on Potential Toy Toni carded figure scam.

Postby jules_p » Sun Nov 09, 2014 8:24 pm

mr_palitoy wrote:
Have looked at that factory footage again. Those pins are on the outside of the card to keep the card from moving, not on the bubble itself.
I think the dimples on the bubbles are there as part of the manufacturing process of the bubble or as the result of a tool used to hold the bubble
in place while being non factory sealed.

So I don't think they add anything either way.

Jason


Hi Jason,

Would it be possible to link me to the video in case it is of a one or quality that I not seen.

Also note the stormie MOC got an uniform pressure indention around the seal area on the card all round the bubble - it does look like a factory press device or similar.

Cheers,

Jules

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Re: Important info on Potential Toy Toni carded figure scam.

Postby mr_palitoy » Mon Nov 10, 2014 1:17 pm

jules_p wrote:
mr_palitoy wrote:
Have looked at that factory footage again. Those pins are on the outside of the card to keep the card from moving, not on the bubble itself.
I think the dimples on the bubbles are there as part of the manufacturing process of the bubble or as the result of a tool used to hold the bubble
in place while being non factory sealed.

So I don't think they add anything either way.

Jason


Hi Jason,

Would it be possible to link me to the video in case it is of a one or quality that I not seen.

Also note the stormie MOC got an uniform pressure indention around the seal area on the card all round the bubble - it does look like a factory press device or similar.

Cheers,

Jules


It's just the video link you have already seen:-



Can you post a pic of the back of the card? Increased pressing/ident round the bubble on the back of the card is a sign of a factory seal too.

cheers Jason
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Re: Important info on Potential Toy Toni carded figure scam.

Postby jules_p » Tue Nov 11, 2014 7:46 pm

mr_palitoy wrote:
jules_p wrote:
mr_palitoy wrote:
Have looked at that factory footage again. Those pins are on the outside of the card to keep the card from moving, not on the bubble itself.
I think the dimples on the bubbles are there as part of the manufacturing process of the bubble or as the result of a tool used to hold the bubble
in place while being non factory sealed.

So I don't think they add anything either way.

Jason


Hi Jason,

Would it be possible to link me to the video in case it is of a one or quality that I not seen.

Also note the stormie MOC got an uniform pressure indention around the seal area on the card all round the bubble - it does look like a factory press device or similar.

Cheers,

Jules


It's just the video link you have already seen:-



Can you post a pic of the back of the card? Increased pressing/ident round the bubble on the back of the card is a sign of a factory seal too.

cheers Jason


Hello Jason,

I enclose some more pics of the front of the card as looking at the back is very faint - you need to move the card in the light reflection to see it - there a very slight bend where the seal is.

Points to include (From the photos):

there actually 5 dimbles - 2 extra on left side of card (don't know if you can see it?) sorry I missed the other two :?
- it is a uniform press all round the bubble.

- looking at the stems - you should be able to see a crease on each stem - to me it looks like it happened during the bubble pressing action.

I hope this helps?

Jules

stormie1.JPG
stormie2.JPG
stormie3.JPG
stormie4.JPG
stormie5.JPG
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Re: Important info on Potential Toy Toni carded figure scam.

Postby mr_palitoy » Tue Nov 11, 2014 11:23 pm

A lot of my AFA 90 Tonis had those creases on the bubble corners so I don't think that helps the case to say this is genuine.

Jason
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Re: Important info on Potential Toy Toni carded figure scam.

Postby wasp » Wed Nov 12, 2014 8:02 am

Hello,

Could be a very similar figure?. The link is an AFA graduate Stormtrooper, and looks identical to the one shown here jules_p:

http://forum.rebelscum.com/t1114934/

Cheers.


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