And This Is Why I Hate Toxic "Fan" Boys and Their Bitching!

SAVORY100

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Snaketibe said:
SAVORY100 said:
'The Fan base' is broadly happy with the output, the box office shows that.

What the box office actually shows is that TLJ made $722 million less than TFA. And it would have been a hell of a lot less than that if people like me, (who went to see TLJ once, expecting to then make multiple repeat viewings, but didn't because they hated it) had known what it was like before handing over their ticket money. The toy sales are in the sewer. TLJ Blu-ray sales are unsurprisingly also piss-poor. These are NOT things that derive from the fan base being 'broadly happy with the output'. SOME of the fan base is happy, but some of it most certainly is not.

I understand that you personally like TLJ and have no problems with it. I have no problem with you (or anyone else) liking it. But you do seem to be wilfully blind to the fact that a huge section of the fan base does have a problem with TLJ. I am not some toxic fan boy and neither am I an alt-right, sexist, racist, misogynistic, whiny manbaby. I simply don't like TLJ, and for the same reasons that most others that don't like it (crap, boring, nonsensical, non-canonical story, which rides roughshod over not only the OT, but even TFA, which treats the character of Luke Skywalker with astonishing disrespect, and which simply fails to please a massive chunk of its target audience). Yes there is also a very vocal minority of assholes disliking the film for very different reasons, but that doesn't mean my own and other people's reasons for disliking it aren't valid. For example, I dislike the character of Rose Tico, not because she is a woman, not because Kelly Tran has Vietnamese heritage, but because the character is crap, thoroughly unconvincing, completely unnecessary and adds zero to the plot other than a hugely implausible and needless 'love interest' for Finn. If a few loud sexist, racist cunts dislike Rose and Kelly Tran because the character is female and or because Kelly is not white, that doesn't devalue my own criticisms, even though I abhor theirs.

The simple truth is that Disney have divided the fan base with their mismanagement of the franchise in general and with TLJ in particular, and they are beginning to pay the price for it. Solo deserved to do much better at the box office than it did, IMHO (I'm actually going to see it again this very evening, as it happens), but a lot of fans are understandably pissed off. If Disney serve them up a **** sandwich for breakfast, they shouldn't be surprised if people decline their invitation to dinner, and I don't doubt many fans stayed away from Solo after disliking TLJ. I personally did not take this view as I was prepared to give Solo a chance, but a lot of fans won't. I also don't doubt that there will be other reasons for Solo's poor performance as well (and it IS a poor performance, despite your claim that its takings are in line with other blockbusters, as it is heading for a loss!), including poor marketing, the fact it was released just five months after TLJ, and also competition from other films, but there is undoubtedly also going to be a reduction due to a 'once bitten, twice shy' syndrome from fans that hate TLJ.

And since you provide your own anecdotal evidence that you 'have in person met far more people that are very happy with the last 3-4 years of releases' (which I am quite happy to accept, btw), I will counter with my own anecdotal evidence that I have met exceptionally few people that do like TLJ. Most people I've met seem broadly happy with TFA and Rogue One and also Solo (those that have seen it), but very few have had a good word to say about TLJ. That doesn't mean there aren't others like you out there that do like the film, but please don't kid yourself or insult our intelligence by pretending there isn't a very large and seriously pissed off chunk of the fan base (and I include all Star Wars fans, great and small in that catch-all term) that don't share that view.

I'm glad you will no longer be watching any more SW movies
It will be one less moaning voice that didn't get what they wanted... man baby much... sigh
 

edd_jedi

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Personally I think it's a good thing, they need to slow down to avoid saturating the franchise. Star Wars fans are used to having 3 films 3 years apart with 20 odd year gaps between each three. The current film every year schedule is burning the franchise out. Lots of people have noticed that nobody cares about the toys, there's little buzz for each new film now. It's because they are coming out so regularly, not because of a handful of fans moaning.
 

edd_jedi

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Just to add although I thought TLJ was pretty naff I did enjoy Solo, so am not against new films. But the new films are never going to be classics if they churn them out as quickly as the Marvel films. I prefer quality over quantity.
 

db94

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As far as "Toxic" goes it's definitely my observation that people on here and FB that didn't enjoy TLJ criticise the film but people that liked it criticise those that didn't.


Seen lots of examples of people saying that they no longer enjoy the new stuff but happy for those that do just to be met with cries of "you're a manbaby, you're a troll, you're messing up SW for everyone" No they just don't like the new films!


Shame that people can't except that not everyone enjoys the new stuff without immediately trying to portray them as a problem or threat to SW.


If someone posts they went to see it 10 times because they loved it that's great, I have no right to question their choice to do so but if I post up that I chose not to see Solo because I no longer enjoy the films......well **** me I'm the spawn of Satan and responsible for killing SW and clearly I'm a troll, hate the franchise, not a true fan etc etc.

Read through the various threads on here and see how many times someone that didn't enjoy the film has a pop at those that did, can you find any examples.......? Nope not one but have a quick look to see how many times the opposite happens......yeah lots of examples so as far as toxic goes it's pretty one sided.

If you like what Disney are producing great - go and see it as many times as you want, it's your right to do so but for the love of **** don't start greetin when others don't. I didn't go and see it, I'm not a problem I'm a consumer!

Said it many times before - have an opinion on the films not on those that don't agree with your opinion.
 

Grant_C

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Snaketibe said:
SAVORY100 said:
'The Fan base' is broadly happy with the output, the box office shows that.

What the box office actually shows is that TLJ made $722 million less than TFA. And it would have been a hell of a lot less than that if people like me, (who went to see TLJ once, expecting to then make multiple repeat viewings, but didn't because they hated it) had known what it was like before handing over their ticket money. The toy sales are in the sewer. TLJ Blu-ray sales are unsurprisingly also piss-poor. These are NOT things that derive from the fan base being 'broadly happy with the output'. SOME of the fan base is happy, but some of it most certainly is not.

There is an argument that shows the middle film of the OT and PT had equal drops and this fits perfectly into that model. Its not easy to see how much was lost by fans not repeat viewing. Its very possible that if the film was universally loved, it could have made $2 billion. We will never know I guess.

I don't agree with your point on the toys. Yes they are in the sewer, but speaking to Dave Tree, he said that action figure toys are in the sewer over all ranges (except Lego). 3 3/4 action figures are a 40 year old concept and apparently kids are more interested in their video games and phone apps now than playing with action figures. Its doesn't help that all of the TLJ toys were the same figures as the from the TFA range (except Luke/Rose/Paige). They were all wearing the same clothes pretty much with different sculpts. Not exactly attractive and many stockists still had a ton of TFA and R1 toys that are heavily discounted. Plus the rising price of engineering toys means no vast amount of ships are being made. Just a handful per-film. I think the time for 3 3/4 toys are over. Hasbro know this and that's why the 6inch black series aimed at collectors has taken off. So while I think you may be right on toy sales being in the sewer, I believe that this will be the case for action figure toy lines going forward regardless of the popularity of the film.

I agree with the Blu-Ray sales, but do we know how the sales compare to other similar films? Has it been illegally downloaded more than other films?

This is an interesting read. I look forward to reading every ones POV on this.
 

Twin30mm

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Great, well balanced post Snaketibe.
Don't think it deserved that response from Savory100.

And on that note......

db94 said:
Said it many times before - have an opinion on the films not on those that don't agree with your opinion.

Exactly.
I hate TLJ with an absolute passion, but respect that fellow fans enjoyed it. The least you can ask for, is that respect is reciprocated.
 

Grant_C

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db94 said:
As far as "Toxic" goes it's definitely my observation that people on here and FB that didn't enjoy TLJ criticise the film but people that liked it criticise those that didn't.


Seen lots of examples of people saying that they no longer enjoy the new stuff but happy for those that do just to be met with cries of "you're a manbaby, you're a troll, you're messing up SW for everyone" No they just don't like the new films!

I haven't seen that. Can you show evidence of that if its not to much bother?

Edit- actually, ignore that. It could derail a good thread :p
 

SAVORY100

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I have no problem at all with people not liking the new films, if you take a moment to read through my many posts on heee I have on manny many occasions stated that I think it's great that everyone likes different things

What I have a problem with is the repetitive and totally unbalanced commentary that is continually repeated to tell people why the films are not liked.
Just say "I'm not a fan" (and I'm not suggesting of Star Wars) and move on...

Whether it fits an ideal you had or not is not in any way being objective about what was delivered, there is no need to keep saying why you don't like it. Your personal opinion about an actors ability or directors decisions is utterly meaningless. You (and I) have zero influence on the films and it's wasted air.

I think if you read through all my posts in the subject I've never seen a reason to put into words why I love it. There is no point, it's just my opinion.
Getting into detail just winds other folk up, doing it in an aggressive tone adds fuel to that.

Calling Snaketibe a man baby is rude, I apologise.

I was genuinely trying to share some insights about performance and casual fan impact vs 'full on fan' impact.
 

indianawars

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My grievances aren't with any forum members and their views over the new wave of films... and yes, I also disliked TLJ. My main issues are with these silly people who start partitions, create hundreds of hate videos and attempt bullying tactics if you dare debate them over it (not directed at any forum members). I saw a bunch of hate comments directed at one poor guy on a youtube because he dared to disagree that Kathleen Kennedy should be fired. That's why I call them toxic "fan" boys. These people had a direct influence over Disneys decision to cancel upcoming films.

It's funny because several weeks ago, a friend and I were talking about Disney pulling the plug on SW over the extreme backlash. I think one bad movie out of four is pretty forgivable. And who knows, by the end of episode 9, peoples views on TLJ may change when we have the final and full picture. I hope Disney knock episode 9 out of the park and leave people begging for more. It's highly unlikely, but what a way to stick the middle finger up at those haters.

I also agree that they should have been releasing a new film once every 18 months/two years.
 

SAVORY100

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I still can't find any evidence that any films have been cancelled. Can anyone share an actual source that states this is happening?
 

Woolyniner

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SAVORY100 said:
I still can't find any evidence that any films have been cancelled. Can anyone share an actual source that states this is happening?

The source was just a media website. Lucasfilm has stated it is not true. Follow the links from:

http://www.denofgeek.com/uk/movies/star-wars/58625/star-wars-lucasfilm-insists-multiple-films-still-in-development
 

Twin30mm

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SAVORY100 said:
I still can't find any evidence that any films have been cancelled. Can anyone share an actual source that states this is happening?

AFAIK it's being reported by the 'mainsteam' sites such as Collider, but nothing official from Lucasfilm/Disney.

I imagine there's some shred of truth. No smoke without fire etc.

On a side note, what's the view on this RemakeLastJedi campaign?
I'm no fan of the film, but I can't see this going anywhere. Bit embarrassing and potential IP infringement I would imagine.
 

indianawars

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Delayed, cancelled, postponed... true or false.
All I know is, if you type movies 2020 into Google, it no longer shows Obi-Wan listed as a potential film release, that's good enough for me. Google knows everything that's going on in the world :lol: :lol:

On a good note, this thread has been good opening up both sides of the fence. Some cracking comments, and a little bit of therapy.

I do stick by my choice of word, describing some fans as toxic! Manly because "toxic" is such an underused word :lol:
 

Woolyniner

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If you look at the facts, Disney has not announced any future stand alone films.

As such they can not announce that they cancelled/put on hold such films.

They have announced the new Johnson and GOT show runner films, and they have not cancelled them.

So I'm happy all is good with Star Wars :)

Sorry minority angry Star Wars fans, but nothing factual has changed.
 

TheJabbaWookie

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I will say I agree with Jeremy - from my own experience reading both here and on FB that the majority of the OT fan base have been disappointed or largely aggrieved with TLJ. However, I personally also agree with Steve though when he infers the OT fan base is a small percentage of today's SW fan base, and today's 'casual fan' is expected to draw in more money for the Disney franchise than us old gits. (No need to be so rude Steve though, it sounds just as whiney on the other side of the argument, and really not called for).

Just like George Lucas aimed his OT at kids of the 70s and 80s, Disney aimed TLJ at the kids of today, and IMO it's unsurprising that the new trilogy has been broadly well received by the general public but less so by its original audience. I've mentioned it before but Stephen Spielberg did not do Ready Player One any justice IMO, but again I realise I am not the target audience. Stephen Spielberg is the master of kids films (he brought us E.T. and the Goonies FFS, so why would he aim it at 40 year old me (who thought he missed a trick not going all retro "Stranger Things" on us)? But I went with a 9 year old and a 12 year old who thought it was the best film ever made, and I suspect because it looks like every virtual reality world shoot 'em up they're playing on 24/7 on their Playstation 4 and Nintends Switch.

I also feel (again IMO) it's clear that the stand alone films have been aimed at the OT audience while the new trilogy has been produced for and marketed to a completely new audience, and hence they have been broadly well received by the likes of you and me.

In my own personal opinion R1, will in time, come to be viewed by most OT fans, on a par with the three original films, and this is because it was the film that us as kids, growing up with the OT, wanted to see as an adult today. Both Solo and R1 were really enjoyable films but where R1 will go on to succeed where Solo does not, is because it gave us fascinating new character leads and worlds whilst comprehensively tieing it into the OT. While Solo is great I agree with the pretense that we have already imagined how he met Chewie, how he won the Falcon and how he made the Kessel run, whereas (at least) I had never imagined how they came to intercept the Death Star plans.

At the end of the day whether Star Wars is a success or a failure today, it will never taint my love of the OT and the absolutely amazing toyline, which is the reason I'm a member of this forum and have found a likeminded and vibrant community to share my 'geek' passion.
 

Snaketibe

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SAVORY100 said:
Calling Snaketibe a man baby is rude, I apologise.

Thank you, I appreciate that.

I genuinely don't have a problem with you or your views. You are entitled to them, just as I am to mine, so on this subject perhaps we should agree to disagree?

One thing I must correct you on however is that I didn't say I wouldn't be going to see any more SW films. Quite the contrary, I love SW and always have, and as I said in my previous post I actually went to see 'Solo' again this very evening! :)

I am genuinely sad if I never get to see a 'Kenobi' film now, but hopefully one will still come, just perhaps not quite as soon as some of us might have hoped. I too also hope Disney and JJ knocks Episode 9 out of the park, not because it will make me like TLJ any more, and not to silence any critics (it wouldn't anyway :)), but because like most of the people on this forum (presumably!) I truly, deeply and passionately care about Star Wars, and always will.
 

_Lee_

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This is a great thread. Very interesting reading.

Ill be honest.,i do not like the sequels, but i think the standalones were a breath of fresh air. However, i like the PT which may sound strange :D That is just my own opinion though, and i dont expect to force it onto others. I do get a bit upset when people try to shoot down the opinions of others , purely because they disagree with their opinions and try to 'police' anything said against the movies.

At the end of the day, you watch what you want and thats it. For me the ending of ROTJ is the end of Star Wars, but it goes further for many others and i appreciate that.

One things for sure, people looking in at Star Wars fans from the outside still think we are all sad bastards anyway
 

indianawars

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I just had too :lol: :lol: :lol:

35971972_686431748373560_8485270349280182272_n.jpg
 

TK-7785

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To suppose that any toxicity is prevalent on only one side of the argument over the other is daft. Since TLJ I've been seeing some nasty bile spew from both sides. It's a bit like politics really; most people who fall left or right of centre have a great deal more in common with one another than that which they don't. The problem comes with the polarisation. Again, the political analogy works. "Everyone who voted for Trump is a racist", "everyone who backed Bernie is a communist". Polarising the fanbase is equally unhealthy and divisive. I have friends who hated TLJ and some that liked it. They're still my friends...I've just stopped taking advise on what's a good film to watch on Netflix from those that liked it. KIDDING! :lol:

I will say this though, as a fan who found TLJ poorly written with too many pointless plot tangents and with even worse character development (pretty much every character...yes, including the white male ones) getting lumped in with the very small minority of fans who may well be sexist and/or racist (I've personally yet to meet a fan who is either of these things...for the sake of anecdotes) by the likes of JJ Abrams and Rian Johnson as a misogynistic racialist (both of whom have blatantly declared on social media that all those who didn't like TLJ are one or tuther) I find to be pretty insulting. More over, if a representative of the company whose product I've invested a large part of my life and income to comes out with that ****, at the very lest I'm not impressed, at worst they can shove it. My point is this top town tarring every fan with the same insult brush is ****ing stupid and has only fanned the flames of the divide. Any company worth it's salt would be listing to the genuine grievances and taking note. All the rest of the nasty bile floating around they should rise above it and ignore it.

On a parting note, just a wee thought nugget I had recently, and this is meant as a genuine point of note from my own experience not a jab or jibe to either side of the discussion. The hysteria and fan theorising over what the next SW instalment would bring us was undoubtedly rampant post ANH through to when things died down after ROTJ. Same thing happened with the whiff of the Special Editions and the Prequels. Even though the Prequels weren't well received by all, there was still plenty of theorising between trilogy releases. When Disney announced TFA and then Rogue One we saw the same; fans in constant debate of who Snoke was, where's Rey from, what will we see of Luke etc. Since TLJ I've hardly seen any of that sort discussion. Prior to TLJ YouTube would be lit up with theory videos. Now...it's pretty baron. I haven't had any such discussion with friends (fans or otherwise), not with intention, but because the lack on continuity and setting up for intrigue has buggered it. We could probably argue until the cows come home on why that might be, but I think that's pretty telling on the state of the fanbase. For me, the queues that Abrams set up in TFA being completely ignored by Johnson and then the admittance from Lucasfilm that they threw out Lucas' sequel trilogy treatment, then Johnson threw out Abrams' treatment and are pretty much winging it from film to film with a franchise that has been built on strong character arcs and classic storytelling archetypes. Well...that's just ****ing crazy. If you build a house without foundations don't be surprised if half of it falls down a few years later.

Chris
 
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