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Rogue One or The Force Awakens

Discuss all Star Wars films here - the original trilogy, prequel trilogy and the new Disney films.

Rogue One or The Force Awakens

Rogue One
52
76%
The Force Awakens
16
24%
 
Total votes: 68

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Mr. Tie
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Re: Rogue One or The Force Awakens

Postby Mr. Tie » Mon Dec 19, 2016 4:51 pm

I couldn't care about both movies :( Nooooooooooooooooohhhhhhhhh :roll:
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Re: Rogue One or The Force Awakens

Postby tobedesu » Mon Dec 19, 2016 6:34 pm

I really like TFA, good villain and locations. Sets were good, but didn't care much for Finn and Poe.
The main attraction in that film was Han and Chewie and all of the other original characters.
I thought it was pretty solid overall.

However, R1 is a better film overall, packed with action and references and the main heroes and villains are very good.

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Re: Rogue One or The Force Awakens

Postby x-pack » Mon Dec 19, 2016 7:12 pm

Based on how the first viewing of each made me feel I would have to say TFA. I'm not saying it's a better film but it made me feel good, like a cheap Star Wars whore :P

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Re: Rogue One or The Force Awakens

Postby Mr. Tie » Mon Dec 19, 2016 8:29 pm

x-pack wrote:Based on how the first viewing of each made me feel I would have to say TFA. I'm not saying it's a better film but it made me feel good, like a cheap Star Wars whore :P

:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Rogue One or The Force Awakens

Postby Palifan » Tue Dec 20, 2016 1:24 am

itfciain wrote:Different films for me - TFA was aimed at starting out the saga again, hooking in new fans whilst appeasing original fans with cameos from Han, Chewiw, Leia and Han - Disney want this one to carry on for at least another couple of episodes in order to raise a new generation of fans

R1 is a one-off with multiple references to the OT and realistically finishes minutes away from were Star Wars started - it is grittier, more adult orientated and is basically a stand alone

For me they were both very well made - contained enough for me to be happy to watch again & again and certainly felt like continuations of the great films I loved as a kid

R1 is aimed more at me which is why it got my vote but I have no issues with TFA at all and am looking forward to the next one



This sums it up nicely and other than the score I felt it kicked TFA ass for me. It was more original and aimed at an older audience and I thought Gareth Edwards did a fantastic job with the direction (although who knows what was changed with the re-shoots?). The CG characters was very bold and didn't totally work for me in places but not enough to really spoil it in anyway.

Jedi never quite worked for me as a film (bold statement I know but I'd still take it over ep2 and 3), and now I could bing watch R1 and ep 4 & 5 as a new sort of trilogy.......It would be a pretty depressing ending though :lol:

Fantastic film all round and can't wait to see it again.

Ian

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Re: Rogue One or The Force Awakens

Postby Ian_C » Tue Dec 20, 2016 5:20 am

Obviously, I agree with your sentiments, but I'm not quite getting the people saying this.

SAVORY100 wrote:I guess it could (should?) have been slightly more child friendly as Star Wars is and always should be a kids film franchise, but I'm not complaining at getting a slightly more adult film!


I was hesitant to take my kids to R1 because of the warnings about it not being kid friendly. My 8 year old loved it, and wasn't scared of a single scene. He was more upset at K-2 dying than any human.

By comparison, ESB was pretty much the same thing. Mass death and destruction on Hoth. Dak doesn't just die in his snowspeeder, he gets stepped on and crushed by an AT-AT. A wampa that attacks Luke, scarring his face before having his arm cut off (which became more bloody in the 1997 version). LOTS of sexual innuendo between Han and Leia. 3PO blasted to pieces. Cutting off Vader's head in the tree scene on Dagobah, revealing Luke's face inside. Han is tortured onscreen, while Leia and Chewbacca are tortured offscreen. Han is frozen in carbonite. Luke has his hand chopped off, has his assailant's identity revealed as his own father, then plunges towards what he thought was his death.

ESB was, is some ways, darker than R1. ;)

Then there's some pretty adult scenes in the other films too.

ANH - Walrusman's arm is severed and we see the bloody arm on the ground. Owen and Beru's burning skeletons. Luke pulled underwater by a dianoga. The whole concept of being crushed by a trash compactor. Destruction of Alderaan, made more personal knowing Leia's adoptive parents are among the victims. Obi-Wan chopped in half.

ROTJ - Jabba is choked to death with a chain. Leia is forced into slavery, wearing a bikini. :) A Rancor is seen eating a Gamorrean that is sqealing in terror. Ewoks intend to cook and eat the rebels. Ewoks shot out of the sky by an AT-ST. Two Ewoks run past an explosion, and one survives, while showing sadness at his friend who did not. Luke momentarily gives in to the Dark Side. Vader loses his hand (again), then dies. The Emperor is thrown down a shaft.

And of course, ROTS - Dooku has two hands severed, then is mercilessly beheaded by Anakin. Grievous murdering Shaak Ti (in a deleted scene). Order 66, and the mass slaughter of Jedi. Anakin murdering children. Anakin having his limbs severed, then catching fire and burning onscreen.

The whole saga has several "adult" scenes throughout. Just because this one had a more military feel, and most of the stars died, this isn't really that far from some of the scenes we've had before it.

It's been two and a half days since I saw it, and am still stunned over how good it was. :)

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Re: Rogue One or The Force Awakens

Postby SAVORY100 » Tue Dec 20, 2016 5:56 am

Ian_C wrote:Obviously, I agree with your sentiments, but I'm not quite getting the people saying this.

SAVORY100 wrote:I guess it could (should?) have been slightly more child friendly as Star Wars is and always should be a kids film franchise, but I'm not complaining at getting a slightly more adult film!


I was hesitant to take my kids to R1 because of the warnings about it not being kid friendly. My 8 year old loved it, and wasn't scared of a single scene. He was more upset at K-2 dying than any human.

By comparison, ESB was pretty much the same thing. Mass death and destruction on Hoth. Dak doesn't just die in his snowspeeder, he gets stepped on and crushed by an AT-AT. A wampa that attacks Luke, scarring his face before having his arm cut off (which became more bloody in the 1997 version). LOTS of sexual innuendo between Han and Leia. 3PO blasted to pieces. Cutting off Vader's head in the tree scene on Dagobah, revealing Luke's face inside. Han is tortured onscreen, while Leia and Chewbacca are tortured offscreen. Han is frozen in carbonite. Luke has his hand chopped off, has his assailant's identity revealed as his own father, then plunges towards what he thought was his death.

ESB was, is some ways, darker than R1. ;)

Then there's some pretty adult scenes in the other films too.

ANH - Walrusman's arm is severed and we see the bloody arm on the ground. Owen and Beru's burning skeletons. Luke pulled underwater by a dianoga. The whole concept of being crushed by a trash compactor. Destruction of Alderaan, made more personal knowing Leia's adoptive parents are among the victims. Obi-Wan chopped in half.

ROTJ - Jabba is choked to death with a chain. Leia is forced into slavery, wearing a bikini. :) A Rancor is seen eating a Gamorrean that is sqealing in terror. Ewoks intend to cook and eat the rebels. Ewoks shot out of the sky by an AT-ST. Two Ewoks run past an explosion, and one survives, while showing sadness at his friend who did not. Luke momentarily gives in to the Dark Side. Vader loses his hand (again), then dies. The Emperor is thrown down a shaft.

And of course, ROTS - Dooku has two hands severed, then is mercilessly beheaded by Anakin. Grievous murdering Shaak Ti (in a deleted scene). Order 66, and the mass slaughter of Jedi. Anakin murdering children. Anakin having his limbs severed, then catching fire and burning onscreen.

The whole saga has several "adult" scenes throughout. Just because this one had a more military feel, and most of the stars died, this isn't really that far from some of the scenes we've had before it.

It's been two and a half days since I saw it, and am still stunned over how good it was. :)

Ian


To clarify, the difference for me is that between cartoon violence and actual threat and fear. That is essentially the difference between the adult and child film comments (in my mind) not whether there is blood and gore or a handful of cartoon violence examples in the other films. To me this is the first Star Wars film to clearly cross that line.

Its a bit like some of the fight scenes in Kill Bill for example, its not actually a terribly scary film as you see all the stupid over the top violence (ala the Wampa or Dooku killing) vs a film like The Strangers where you don't see any gore but its terrifying because of the threat and emotion in the acts being carried out; both of those are of course 18 certificates, but the context holds.

Rogue One film has an underlying grit and the kills aren't over the top and cartoon clean, they are darker. There is a darkness and a reality to a lot more of this film than any other before, the way it is shot makes it feel more real and the way the characters react to the deaths around them is with decent acting and real emotion, no hamming it up. Even the locations are less 'somewhere in the stars' in a number of cases, it certainly adds to the sense of reality for me.

Unlike the Star Wars, ESB and ROTJ real characters you have bonded with, these ones die, they all die, there is no big rush of hope for them, unlike Luke, Han Leia, C3-PO, Chewie etc who all get beaten and bruised but live to fight another day (in the main). There are no over the top screams like Luke's in ESB to give a child context of what they are seeing and how they should feel. Emotional cues are vital to children, this film has so many of them removed and that makes it an adult film as only an adult can process the feeling and react to it appropriately. A child needs to be prompted and told how to feel.. its (in part at least) why Hayden Christensen gets such a tough time from adult fans, his acting is over the top child friendly, but kids need that and its why kids actually like those films.

Rogue One is full of hard cold kills with no emotion at all (the opening scene shooting the spy in the back has zero emotion), it's a piece of filmmaking that is arguably not child appropriate, it is not a situation they could (or should) be able to process if they are leading a normal childhood as we do as adults.. I guess they would see it face value and not understand the brutality, but if they question it, which they may, its a difficult thing to process for them.

The sadness of each characters death and the impact emotionally that it has on those around them is not at all explored in any of the other films (outside of Han's death), even that though is overly dramatic and doesn't linger like the deaths in R1.

The Deep Impact style Jyn death is peaked with emotion and has a real sadness to it.

Kids and kids films do not deal in real sadness, deception and the darker side of killing (generally), they do though deal in over the top yelps, screams and cartoon violence.

I would agree on the Anakin/younglings example on reflection as it does have a shock factor even though nothing is actually seen, the other examples though are dressed totally differently to enable a child's mind to cope with them, like Tom & Jerry or Roadrunner.

Anyway, its just my opinion, I do see a difference though.
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Re: Rogue One or The Force Awakens

Postby Ian_C » Tue Dec 20, 2016 10:04 am

That's a fair counter. I don't necessarily agree, but can see what you're trying to say. Cheers.

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Re: Rogue One or The Force Awakens

Postby SAVORY100 » Tue Dec 20, 2016 10:48 am

Ian_C wrote:That's a fair counter. I don't necessarily agree, but can see what you're trying to say. Cheers.

Ian


Never worth a row, I just wanted to explain why I said it; appreciate you understanding my point of view as I do yours - cheers :D
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Re: Rogue One or The Force Awakens

Postby yoda » Tue Dec 20, 2016 11:13 am

Was gonna choose but think ill also give it another couple of views before I decide.
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Re: Rogue One or The Force Awakens

Postby _Lee_ » Tue Dec 20, 2016 7:06 pm

Rogue One is the best Star Wars film since ROTJ in my own personal opinion. I havent felt the way i did after seeing Rogue One in a long time. It completely blows TFA to smithereens IMO,aswell as the PT. As Iain said, they are completely different films, but the gritty acting and great back story made Rogue One stand out. Seeing Cushing immortalised and the great work on Leia gave me goosebumps. Yes, Vader brutal in the ending but that is who he is-he was hardly going to tickle them to death was he?

That said, im still looking forward to episode 8 as it carries on the saga. I for one hope that other directors learn from Gareth Edwards as that guy can make a good movie.

Anyway, Star Wars came back last year but now they have surpassed even my expectations with R1.
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Re: Rogue One or The Force Awakens

Postby x-pack » Tue Dec 20, 2016 10:03 pm

_Lee_ wrote:Yes, Vader brutal in the ending but that is who he is-he was hardly going to tickle them to death was he?



Vader could actually do this! :lol:

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Re: Rogue One or The Force Awakens

Postby Nick_IoW » Wed Dec 21, 2016 1:19 pm

Definitely prefered TFA.

Yeah I've seen the DS blow up 3 times, but I've seen a million (exaggeration) dirty dozen style movies - and it doesn't come close the camaraderie of the characters in those movies.

I didn't find R1 dark or menacing, no feeling for the characters safety. Nothing. Just sat their waiting to see how they would die.

I guess I prefer more lightsabers and the turmoil between light and dark to generic gunplay.

Well, except for the prequels - lightsabers can't save those.

Wish I had liked this more - hopefully will grow on me over time. Cos I really want to like it - but I guess you can't force these things.

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Re: Rogue One or The Force Awakens

Postby Mr. Tie » Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:46 pm

Nick_IoW wrote:Definitely prefered TFA.

Yeah I've seen the DS blow up 3 times, but I've seen a million (exaggeration) dirty dozen style movies - and it doesn't come close the camaraderie of the characters in those movies.

I didn't find R1 dark or menacing, no feeling for the characters safety. Nothing. Just sat their waiting to see how they would die.

I guess I prefer more lightsabers and the turmoil between light and dark to generic gunplay.

Well, except for the prequels - lightsabers can't save those.

Wish I had liked this more - hopefully will grow on me over time. Cos I really want to like it - but I guess you can't force these things.

I agree as far as your opinion about R1. It's a complete insensitive movie, you can't interact with the characters because at the end of the movie they are all dead :( I also didn't like the absence of lightsabers, I am not such a sticky guy :wink: It's more like a computer game, sort of first shooter. Although TFA lacks any originality, I like the Force elements in it. Well, just wait for episode 8 and hope it's kinda ESB :? No SW spin off for me anymore, Disney can keep the Han Solo sh** :o :shock: :lol:
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Re: Rogue One or The Force Awakens

Postby StarWarsFan » Wed Dec 21, 2016 6:27 pm

R1


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