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Rogue One makes Force Awakens weaker...

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Rogue One makes Force Awakens weaker...

Postby reddogblues » Wed Mar 08, 2017 9:44 am

Just re-watched Force Awakens. I still think it is a fun flick, with some great nostalgic pieces, but the thing that always bothered me was how "easy" it was to destroy Starkiller base.

I think Rogue One now makes that even more apparent. We see in this movie just what the Rebellion had to go through to get the plans just to give them a shot at destroying it. Hundreds are killed, many suffer, just to allow them to analyse the plans and come up with a weakness.

Now in Force Awakens all that is condensed into some guy called "Snap" doing a recon mission (which we never see) and then some general saying, "hmmm there must be some kind of oscillator". Finn confirms there is and they decide all they need to do is keep bombing it until it blows up. It basically takes the whole of Rogue One and a New Hope (both ultimately about getting the plans to Yavin) and puts it into a 30 second briefing.

It just felt like lazy story-telling to me.

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Re: Rogue One makes Force Awakens weaker...

Postby StarWarsFan » Wed Mar 08, 2017 6:24 pm

Agree another reason why i'm not a fan of TFA at all.

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Re: Rogue One makes Force Awakens weaker...

Postby Mr. Tie » Wed Mar 08, 2017 8:40 pm

Both movies are weak, as TFA is a copy of ANH and R1 lacks character building. All commercial sh** thanks to Disney. Such a shame that the OT had a lot of successors that gave us more rubbish than satisfaction... :cry:
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Re: Rogue One makes Force Awakens weaker...

Postby ScruffyLookingNH » Wed Mar 08, 2017 9:35 pm

Guys you go and analyze those films to death if you want to, but I think you're forgetting a rather important point: you are not 6, 7, 8 or whatever years old anymore. You're grown men with life experience and as such, nothing will ever compete with the OT. Tried analyzing the OT? I haven't and don't bloody want to. As soon as you do, just for 5 mins it's like trying to find a hole in a colander. This is commercial crap anymore than the OT was: in other words it all is! Studios don't make films to make us feel good, they make films to make money and they've proved they're good at it. My nephews lapped up the new films, just as I did (but for different reasons).

If you try analyzing this stuff you'll go crazy. Jesus; we're talking planet sized space stations, a mystical "force" and aliens that make ET believable: and you want to analyze this stuff?? Just enjoy it for what it is: a fairy tale set in a galaxy a long time ago, far, far away.

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Re: Rogue One makes Force Awakens weaker...

Postby Clarkspie&chips » Thu Mar 09, 2017 8:46 am

I don't buy the whole "they're kids movies so don't read too much into them" argument. Kids are smart and there are plenty of films made for them that don't take liberties like that. On the whole the original trilogy is pretty coherent and allows you to believe in the story, which is important with so many fantastical elements.
It's also important as it puts our hero's in real peril, getting the plans to the rebellion is such a big deal that everything is hanging on luke making that shot. For me, this is now even more poignant after watching rogue one.

TFA misses this aspect of star wars in the same way the prequels did. Yes the movies are supposed to be fun but don't treat your audience like babies. Rouge one has its faults like the aforementioned character development, but it did get this aspect right.

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Re: Rogue One makes Force Awakens weaker...

Postby naughtyjedi » Thu Mar 09, 2017 10:40 pm

reddogblues wrote:Just re-watched Force Awakens. I still think it is a fun flick, with some great nostalgic pieces, but the thing that always bothered me was how "easy" it was to destroy Starkiller base.

I think Rogue One now makes that even more apparent. We see in this movie just what the Rebellion had to go through to get the plans just to give them a shot at destroying it. Hundreds are killed, many suffer, just to allow them to analyse the plans and come up with a weakness.


Not really analysing it. "hey daughter, I put a weakness in the death star, shoot here and it blows up". Plans will hold that info.. tada!!

You are spending years building something, you seriously telling me these things aren't checked by more than the science team? Of course not. It would be boring if it was and it would not be a space fantasy. I don't want 3 hours of talking about it, I just want a big space battle, and a big explosion. The imminent explosion leads to a great end scene with a sense of urgency meaning its set up for the next one. In that meeting, do you really want a longer discussion than is given? "lets blow the fuck out of it?" "how", "we do this", "okay, lets do that and wing it" "okay"

reddogblues wrote:Now in Force Awakens all that is condensed into some guy called "Snap" doing a recon mission (which we never see) and then some general saying, "hmmm there must be some kind of oscillator". Finn confirms there is and they decide all they need to do is keep bombing it until it blows up. It basically takes the whole of Rogue One and a New Hope (both ultimately about getting the plans to Yavin) and puts it into a 30 second briefing.



and this leads me to a larger rant. If you gave people the creative input of star wars it would be 18 hours explaining the intricacies of chewbaccas nostril hair or the oxygen content of Ach-To's atmosphere. star wars was the vision of a fun loving imaginative creative, it had monsters, peril, space battles, heroes, villains, mystery and intrigue. not oscillator discussions, senate briefings, trade disputes.

The force awakens is a great film, because it just gets on with it. It moves along at a great pace, its inoffensive, it never lags and it looks great. it has a new hero or two, some familiar faces, monsters, battles, explosions.. everything I want as a star wars fan. I notice the culture is now to slag it off, I watched it the other night and again loved it. I still laugh at the Kylo Ren scenes, I still love the Rey "garbage" scene, I love the Han Solo rathtar nonsense (cos its like being a kid reading the Marvel comics) I still love BB8 (knowing he's mostly real and not cgi), Poe Dameron is awesome and blows stuff up with his mates (how can you not love XWings blasting Tie Fighters..??) I still get a tingle when Rey has the vision and I get hairs standing when she takes the saber and takes on Kylo Ren. I love the traitor scene when Finn gets his ass handed to him by a badass stormy, I still am saddened by Han and Leia. I still love Chewbacca getting really angry, I suffer when he gets shot earlier on and I love the fact that they find Luke..

Its epic!!!

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Re: Rogue One makes Force Awakens weaker...

Postby theforceuk » Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:24 am

ScruffyLookingNH wrote:Guys you go and analyze those films to death if you want to, but I think you're forgetting a rather important point: you are not 6, 7, 8 or whatever years old anymore. You're grown men with life experience and as such, nothing will ever compete with the OT. Tried analyzing the OT? I haven't and don't bloody want to. As soon as you do, just for 5 mins it's like trying to find a hole in a colander. This is commercial crap anymore than the OT was: in other words it all is! Studios don't make films to make us feel good, they make films to make money and they've proved they're good at it. My nephews lapped up the new films, just as I did (but for different reasons).

If you try analyzing this stuff you'll go crazy. Jesus; we're talking planet sized space stations, a mystical "force" and aliens that make ET believable: and you want to analyze this stuff?? Just enjoy it for what it is: a fairy tale set in a galaxy a long time ago, far, far away.


Exactly and well said. Love the films for what you did after watching one for the first time. :)
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Re: Rogue One makes Force Awakens weaker...

Postby reddogblues » Fri Mar 10, 2017 6:04 pm

Just because I am now an adult, I fail to see why I can't critique a film any more. As I said, I think TFA is a fun film, some great moments and I really liked the characters and performances. It was just that element that bothered me and I thought RO made it seem more obvious. Next time I wil be sure to ignore anything that bothers me in new SW films, because it is just because I am not a kid anymore...

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Re: Rogue One makes Force Awakens weaker...

Postby _Lee_ » Fri Mar 10, 2017 8:37 pm

As i was someone who was massively in the 'no more' camp when Disney took over, i actually enjoyed both films. Rogue One was the better film in my eyes, but TFA has already set itself up for a great sequel with the forthcoming film. I liked Rogue One because it felt like the Star Wars i love.

As someone said before, let the kids of today enjoy their Star Wars years. Nothing will ever replace our OT days but to them it is their time. Disney are expanding the galaxy, and Star Wars will live on. We grew up thinking how Anakin turned, but later in life we found out and it took away a little of the mythical aspect but we still lived the old days :D
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Re: Rogue One makes Force Awakens weaker...

Postby reddogblues » Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:04 pm

I am hugely happy we get new SW films every year :) Am lapping up all the new tidbits about Last Jedi!

And debating, analysing, discussing - that's all part of the fun :) Who liked what, who didn't, why they did this, why not, who is who etc. That's what makes it so cool :D

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Re: Rogue One makes Force Awakens weaker...

Postby theforceuk » Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:36 pm

The problem for me is when someone critique's a new Star Wars films I can critercise the original films for the same reason or reasons. Pretty much anything you moan about since the first trilogy was made anyone can point back and say that happened then, it was just cool then no matter what and Star Wars always will be cool to me! :lol:
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Re: Rogue One makes Force Awakens weaker...

Postby bosk70 » Sat Mar 11, 2017 7:51 pm

I think we have to be thankful that they did not have, (in TFA), what ever it was, that made me uninterested in re-watching the prequels, always found them flat and slow, after seeing them for the first time . I always remember watching the opening scene, on the big screen, on the trade federation vessel with two jedi's fighting there way out and thinking this is going to be really good :shock: and then as soon as jar jar showed up :( being disappointed from that point on.

I can watch SW again and again and can always watch Empire with real enthusiasm and not so much Jedi but can still watch it because its Jedi, I loved TFA and can re watch it with real enthusiasm and am waiting to see RO on dvd , so TFA must have that thing, whatever that think is, that makes me want to watch Empire / SW over and over again :!: :)
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Re: Rogue One makes Force Awakens weaker...

Postby Bonsai_Tree_Ent » Sun Mar 12, 2017 11:08 am

They could have added a simple one line explanation, that Starkiller Base is 'vulnerable' when its powering up to fire - due to the massive energy build up in one spot. Would make logical sense.

But yep... science 'fantasy' rather than science fiction.

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Re: Rogue One makes Force Awakens weaker...

Postby wrighty » Sun Mar 12, 2017 11:32 pm

I watched these films as they are meant to be, entertainment. I paid $ for it and it entertained me for 2hrs, great. After that I try not to think about it and move on. You can over think the plots and I am sure there are lots of holes. Just my 2 cents. Chill and enjoy!

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Re: Rogue One makes Force Awakens weaker...

Postby Dr_Ball_MD » Wed Mar 15, 2017 1:30 pm

ScruffyLookingNH wrote:Guys you go and analyze those films to death if you want to, but I think you're forgetting a rather important point: you are not 6, 7, 8 or whatever years old anymore. You're grown men with life experience and as such, nothing will ever compete with the OT. Tried analyzing the OT? I haven't and don't bloody want to. As soon as you do, just for 5 mins it's like trying to find a hole in a colander. This is commercial crap anymore than the OT was: in other words it all is! Studios don't make films to make us feel good, they make films to make money and they've proved they're good at it. My nephews lapped up the new films, just as I did (but for different reasons).

If you try analyzing this stuff you'll go crazy. Jesus; we're talking planet sized space stations, a mystical "force" and aliens that make ET believable: and you want to analyze this stuff?? Just enjoy it for what it is: a fairy tale set in a galaxy a long time ago, far, far away.


Spot on!
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