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The Last Jedi - **SPOILERS THREAD**

Discuss all Star Wars films here - the original trilogy, prequel trilogy and the new Disney films.
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Dorsetmark
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Re: The Last Jedi - **SPOILERS THREAD**

Postby Dorsetmark » Sun Dec 17, 2017 3:33 pm

Grant_C wrote:Let go of the past.

Kill it, if you have too.


Disney already done that for me :wink:

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Re: The Last Jedi - **SPOILERS THREAD**

Postby jedisearcher » Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:43 pm

No wonder the critics loved this film, it’s basically taken the whole “middle film in the trilogy” dynamic and thrown it out of the airlock. It’s taken me some thought but I like the fact that so many of people’s expectations have been dumped - we shouldnt go into a film expecting all of the internet’s theories to be rubber-stamped with tidy little backstories to explain Reys parentage or Snokes rise to power. To be honest, I’m now wondering whether they told Abrams to add in as many possible presents - Luke’s lightsaber, Vader’s helmet etc., just so that people would go nuts trying to decipher everything. Having watched Lost I’m sure he’d have been delighted to but even so, its hard to believe that Kathleen Kennedy would have signed off RJ failing to resolve any of those things if they are anything other than a mocking nod at fan theories.

Virtually every modern trilogy has been badly let down by the necessity for the middle film to be the set up for the big battles and plot resolutions that the final film will cover. TLJ trashed all of those things by answering them, and now we’ve got no idea what to expect from the last film. No wonder people don’t like it, whats the Internet going to theorise over for the next 18 months? And what about the traditional SW type basics - everyone is related to someone, everything has a meaning. Well they’re gone now as well and it’s going to take a bit of getting used to but really, they’ve always had to go - it couldn’t be Luke/Leia/Han and the Skywalkers forever. Even now, people are still saying is the little boy at the end somehow related to Rey or whoever else. Just breathe and let it go now ...

The other thing people seem to be badly put out over is Luke’s story and they’re using Hamills apparent problem with it as justification that TLJ is a bad film. But could Luke be anything other than jaded with what the Force has done to him? It’s taken his parents, condemned the Galaxy to the Emperor and now the First Order, and it’s destroyed his sisters family. No wonder he went into exile. If you rewatch the end of TFA (with hindsight) his acting is great when Rey hands him lightsaber. You can see the loathing in his eyes, he wants no part of it any more and who can blame him. It would be crazy for them to try and make something different of his actions. I bet Hamills real issue was with the flashback sequences as it trashes his legacy which is rather sad, but it makes much better motivation for the new big bad and let’s face it, he and Rey are the future now.

It’s good to see that the target audience seem to be enjoying the film, after all, they’re the ones buying the toys, the Lego, the games, the clothes, not us grumpy 40 something’s who just collect the old tat :D
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Re: The Last Jedi - **SPOILERS THREAD**

Postby BadMotivator » Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:02 pm

I just realised that Yoda knew that Rey had stolen the Jedi texts...

That little green bastard! "There is nothing in them that Rei does not already know." Man, Luke gets a bumming in this movie. I hope he comes back as a force ghost and kicks everyone's arse :D
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Re: The Last Jedi - **SPOILERS THREAD**

Postby stormcab » Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:14 pm

edd_jedi wrote:To my surprise I really enjoyed it! I thought it was better than TFA or R1. Of course there were some bits I didn't like, I still think Kylo Ren is a bit wet but I thought Rey was much better in this one. Luke was good. I thought Leia's 'coming back from the dead' was a bit inappropriate, surprised they left that in. But the effects were brilliant, I especially enjoyed the opening space battle.

One thing I didn't understand - who was the boy in the last scene with Jedi powers? Are we supposed to know?


My theory is that they’ve gone out of their way to quash every fan theory, and keep us guessing. The trailer edits seemed nothing to do with the film. From the trailer it looked like Kylo was the person who kills Leia, nope. They were heavy into editing when she died. I thought the scene wear she drifts back in from space was genius as I’m sure most of us thought “ok, so that’s how they’ve handled it, but wait, no still alive, wow”.

Talking about Kylo being wer or weak? He managed to block Snoke from sensing him turning the light saber! I reckon this adds to his complexity - wet, strong, has tantrums, but has amazing powers. Something that will be revealed in the next film. Saying Rey’s parents were nobodies; I reckon this was firstly to disprove all the fan theories, but, could be to throw us off for the truth to come out in ep 9. Anyway, my 2 cents there.

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Re: The Last Jedi - **SPOILERS THREAD**

Postby Bonsai_Tree_Ent » Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:59 pm

At the end of ESB Luke had it revealed that his parents were somebody.

At the end of Last Jedi Rey had it revealed that her parents were nobody.

As Luke says "The vanity of the Jedi" to think that the Force is theirs, I really like the more naturalistic expression of the Force in Last Jedi. It's no longer linked to Midichlorians, blood tests, and who your parents are. It's back to how Yoda described it on Dagobah, an energy that exists within nature. You don't have to be a Skywalker or a Kenobi to use the Force, you can be 'no one' as Rey is.

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Re: The Last Jedi - **SPOILERS THREAD**

Postby tiefighterboy » Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:31 pm

Mr-shifter wrote:I have been thinking about this film more and more and have come to the conclusion that the problem with Star Wars fans these days is Star Wars fans themselves.

The first three films spanned 6 years. The first was a stand-alone movie. Lucas couldn’t have known wether he was going to get to make any more. Esb was dark, and a lead up to the return of the Jedi, with a lot of backstory thrown in. There were fans of the film, but normal people. Mostly children, but many adults as well. But just normal people. Lucas could do whatever he wanted, because they were his. Kill off tarkin, bring in the emperor. No one gave a shit about who he was or his backstory. It was fine. He was just a new character. Rotj. Rehash the Death Star. That’s ok because people just wanted more.

Then came the fan. 40 years of fandom, and analysing over and over what has been seen. The dawn of the eu, the continuation of the universe all building up to where we are now.

But these hardcore fans are no longer willing to just accept snoke as a character, nor Rey as a force user with no background. Everything needs explaining. Everything must fit in with where they believe it should fit in and it is not possible anymore to just make up a story.

Have we become so inflexible based on the fact that we have been living in the past 40 years that we are unable to open our minds to new ideas and perhaps let this thing go in a direction we didn’t expect it to, or does it have to follow whatever format we previously decided it should.

All you guys with kids saying him much they loved it. These are the same eyes we experienced the ot with.

This film is by far my favourite outside of the ot. My views on the ot will never change because it was an intrinsic part of my childhood. The films represent a time of my life for me, just as certain places and music does. But this is the best thing I have seen based in the Star Wars universe since. I now can’t wait for 9.


^This

I was going to share my thoughts, but this pretty much sums up my feelings. It was a brilliant movie. Did it have it’s stupid moments of course, did the OT, of course.

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Re: The Last Jedi - **SPOILERS THREAD**

Postby BadMotivator » Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:43 pm

I think my problem with the movie is that it gives Luke such a kicking that I just don't want to like it.

It could be the best movie ever, but because of the way it treats my old friend, I'll always hold a grudge against it.
Fortunately, it gives me ample reasons to call it a bag of shit :D
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Re: The Last Jedi - **SPOILERS THREAD**

Postby StarWarsFan » Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:54 pm

BadMotivator wrote:I think my problem with the movie is that it gives Luke such a kicking that I just don't want to like it.

It could be the best movie ever, but because of the way it treats my old friend, I'll always hold a grudge against it.
Fortunately, it gives me ample reasons to call it a bag of shit :D


Totally agree

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Re: The Last Jedi - **SPOILERS THREAD**

Postby Dark vador » Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:58 pm

Seen it a second time and loved it more then the first some scenes takes some understanding like the selflessness of luke till the very end glad I seen it a second to see it better understand more and appreciate.

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Re: The Last Jedi - **SPOILERS THREAD**

Postby BadMotivator » Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:13 pm

Dark vador wrote:Seen it a second time and loved it more then the first some scenes takes some understanding like the selflessness of luke till the very end glad I seen it a second to see it better understand more and appreciate.


Yeah I'm going to give it a second shot. I've heard a lot of people say it gets better with more viewings.
I still can't believe that I'll like it more though. Just thinking about some of the scenes makes me angry :D like the opening scene, how much better would it have been if it was a full on squadron of X-Wings attacking the dreadnought in a last ditch, desperate fight to death to knock out the guns:

"Red three checking in, Red four checking in. OK boys this is it! We have to do this!"

One by one they all die until only Poe is left, but they do it! They knock out the guns and the bombers can hit the ship!...

Instead we get a prank phone call and Poe doing a handbrake turn in his X-Wing. :D
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Re: The Last Jedi - **SPOILERS THREAD**

Postby _Lee_ » Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:25 pm

Mr-shifter wrote:I have been thinking about this film more and more and have come to the conclusion that the problem with Star Wars fans these days is Star Wars fans themselves.

The first three films spanned 6 years. The first was a stand-alone movie. Lucas couldn’t have known wether he was going to get to make any more. Esb was dark, and a lead up to the return of the Jedi, with a lot of backstory thrown in. There were fans of the film, but normal people. Mostly children, but many adults as well. But just normal people. Lucas could do whatever he wanted, because they were his. Kill off tarkin, bring in the emperor. No one gave a shit about who he was or his backstory. It was fine. He was just a new character. Rotj. Rehash the Death Star. That’s ok because people just wanted more.

Then came the fan. 40 years of fandom, and analysing over and over what has been seen. The dawn of the eu, the continuation of the universe all building up to where we are now.

But these hardcore fans are no longer willing to just accept snoke as a character, nor Rey as a force user with no background. Everything needs explaining. Everything must fit in with where they believe it should fit in and it is not possible anymore to just make up a story.

Have we become so inflexible based on the fact that we have been living in the past 40 years that we are unable to open our minds to new ideas and perhaps let this thing go in a direction we didn’t expect it to, or does it have to follow whatever format we previously decided it should.

All you guys with kids saying him much they loved it. These are the same eyes we experienced the ot with.

This film is by far my favourite outside of the ot. My views on the ot will never change because it was an intrinsic part of my childhood. The films represent a time of my life for me, just as certain places and music does. But this is the best thing I have seen based in the Star Wars universe since. I now can’t wait for 9.


Excellent post and something that has made me think differently. Definately food for thought.
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Re: The Last Jedi - **SPOILERS THREAD**

Postby Grant_C » Sun Dec 17, 2017 10:46 pm

It definitely gets better with multiple viewings.

It’s a lot to process and a shocking removal from the spoon fed Star Wars we have previously.

I’d argue that this is the first script since ESB that anything could happen and it pushes a lot of preconceptions to one side which initially is really hard d to digest.

I can’t tell you how utterly gutted I was the first time I saw it. Seen it many times now, and I feel it’s the third best made film, and my fourth favourite.

Just an honest opinion.

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Re: The Last Jedi - **SPOILERS THREAD**

Postby theforceuk » Mon Dec 18, 2017 10:11 am

One thing’s for sure I don’t think their has been a Star Wars film that has devided opinion like this. At the moment it’s looking like a marmite film.
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Re: The Last Jedi - **SPOILERS THREAD**

Postby phreatobite » Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:47 pm

To me it felt like everything was about subverting what we expected, jokey asides and meta references - to the point where the film became incoherent.

I miss Luke. A great force user brought low.

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Re: The Last Jedi - **SPOILERS THREAD**

Postby subzero » Mon Dec 18, 2017 6:08 pm

theforceuk wrote:One thing’s for sure I don’t think their has been a Star Wars film that has devided opinion like this. At the moment it’s looking like a marmite film.


IMO that usually means something is excellent, kind of like The Darkness when I first started hearing their music I really didn't like it but once I heard it enough on the radio it suddenly 'clicked' and I absolutely loved them more than anything else, and with them people either truly hate them or really, really love them.

I know that's The Darkness, but the point is when something like that really divides people iv'e found to the people who love it it's like a genius work of art.
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