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Rate TLJ out of ten

Discuss all Star Wars films here - the original trilogy, prequel trilogy and the new Disney films.

What's your score for TLJ out of ten?

0-1, two hours of Jarjar would have been preferable
8
9%
2
5
5%
3
1
1%
4
6
6%
5
12
13%
6
15
16%
7
20
21%
8
14
15%
9
11
12%
10, it's the best SW ever ever ever
2
2%
 
Total votes: 94

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Re: Rate TLJ out of ten

Postby Grant_C » Thu Dec 28, 2017 9:33 pm

I think they (Lucas) could have shown the development of Darth Vader, but just never shown it being Anakin. It would add even more to the most shocking narrative in cinema.

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Re: Rate TLJ out of ten

Postby theforceuk » Thu Dec 28, 2017 9:44 pm

Fair enough, I understand why you feel like that. But Kenobi goes on about how Anakin was this and that, best Star pilot in the Galaxy and you would never see how or why Anakin and Kenobi fall out.

I bet Disney wish Lucas had made them your way, they would make a prequel of the prequels then. I agree as well that it would have been better to see at least an entire film as Vader being Vader. Basically the first two prequels could have been done in the opening hour of the first film and the rest with him turning and being Vader.
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Re: Rate TLJ out of ten

Postby _Lee_ » Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:18 pm

theforceuk wrote:Fair enough, I understand why you feel like that. But Kenobi goes on about how Anakin was this and that, best Star pilot in the Galaxy and you would never see how or why Anakin and Kenobi fall out.

I bet Disney wish Lucas had made them your way, they would make a prequel of the prequels then


Regarding the Kenobi / Anakin fall out, when Luke said to Kylo that he was sorry etc it was like a replay of the ROTS scene - so predictable.

And regarding prequels of prequels, never say never. If anything the sequels leave us wondering who the hell Smoke his and where did he come from?? Why did Palpatine become the main man of the Dark Side - the list of possibilities is endless and Disney will bleed it dry.
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Re: Rate TLJ out of ten

Postby Woolyniner » Fri Dec 29, 2017 7:29 am

I enjoyed it :)

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Re: Rate TLJ out of ten

Postby ScruffyLookingNH » Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:20 am

Grant_C wrote: He threw away his saber in TLJ? He also did it in ROTJ!! This I think is far more in line with the original teaches of ESB and a much more important mythological tale to teach children.


He threw it in ROTJ because he was in a no-win position and knew it. He was making a point he would sooner die than be taken by the dark side (just as he did in ESB when he launched himself off Cloud City) and that a Jedi was brave, steadfast and firm in his beliefs and inner strength when confronted by evil, yadda, yadda, yadda.

He threw it away in TLJ for a cheap laugh. Bit of a difference, I think.

And as for Taun-Tauns not having anything to eat: yellow snow-cones, brother :D

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Re: Rate TLJ out of ten

Postby Grant_C » Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:23 am

Always thought he redeemed his father through non-violence. The casting away of the saber was to show that Luke took in the Jedi teachings. He wasn’t going to give into his anger.

If you ignore the prequels, where the Jedi teaching appear to be meet violence with violence (Lucas), I see Luke, Ben and Yoda as much more like Dali Lama than perhaps Aragon or Clint Eastwood.

The next time on film he is met with the same decision as at the end of ROTJ, his slight hesitation brings about the second Darth Vader. It was the saber that triggered it. You never see him with a saber again after this point. I would suggest he realises that nothing good comes from weapons.

Also, he doesn’t know who Rey is. As far as he knows, some girl turns up and is trying to manipulate him with a bootleg replica.

I do agree though, that it does feel like a wet slap in the face with a fish on screen. It gets the film off on rocky ground that is difficult to recover from. Something more subtle would have had a better effect.

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Re: Rate TLJ out of ten

Postby weasel » Fri Dec 29, 2017 5:58 pm

Grant_C wrote:I noticed that a lot of people rate ROTS as prequels go.


I try to block all memory of prequels out, but is it ROTS where Anakin finally turns in Palpatine's chamber? The single most underwhelming scene in movie history. I literally turned to the person beside me and said "what, is that IT" and they just laughed and said 'yeah, that was shit'.

Prequels are all abominations.
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Re: Rate TLJ out of ten

Postby Davaider » Sat Dec 30, 2017 5:08 pm

[quote="Grant_C

The next time on film he is met with the same decision as at the end of ROTJ, his slight hesitation brings about the second Darth Vader. It was the saber that triggered it. You never see him with a saber again after this point. I would suggest he realises that nothing good comes from weapons.[/quote]

Luke does retrieve his Lightsaber after his Duel with Vader and Emperor, See pic Attached

B1953A46-E632-42AA-9A95-82AC58FAE4AF.jpeg
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Re: Rate TLJ out of ten

Postby _Lee_ » Sat Dec 30, 2017 8:42 pm

Davaider wrote:[quote="Grant_C

The next time on film he is met with the same decision as at the end of ROTJ, his slight hesitation brings about the second Darth Vader. It was the saber that triggered it. You never see him with a saber again after this point. I would suggest he realises that nothing good comes from weapons.


Luke does retrieve his Lightsaber after his Duel with Vader and Emperor, See pic Attached

B1953A46-E632-42AA-9A95-82AC58FAE4AF.jpeg[/quote]

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Re: Rate TLJ out of ten

Postby Crumm » Wed Jan 03, 2018 3:55 pm

I have to say 5.

I was so looking forward to Luke's return and felt that his part was just not good enough. The end battle where he shows up was great, but other than that I thought his arc and involvement was a bit lacklustre.

Finn's mission, at the same time as being completely pointless was also annoying. "Let's put a Monte-Carlo type place in Star Wars" said an ideas guy who needs to be put in a padded cell.

All in all I am pretty indifferent to it, I just don't really care for it either way. It's "ok" and "meh" at the same time. I think we are now becoming over-saturated with Star Wars films. Which is a shame because they are no longer the "event" films I looked forward to.
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Re: Rate TLJ out of ten

Postby naughtyjedi » Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:27 pm

I loved the film so much right from the off.

Luke's story for me made so much sense. The several years of build up only for TFA to give us 1 minute, then with everybody expecting the predictable wise old yoda/Luke, we are given a reason to why the Jedi religion is no longer the ideology Luke holds to. The 'lazer sword' over the shoulder just emphasised his point, a little comically but I believe deliberate to shake up those still dreaming of the Luke/Yoda predictable story.

Its 'the force' > (The Jedi order / Dark Side / Sith).

TLJ for me is the logical conclusion that the star wars films have always been about the 'fall of the jedi order', the Force Awakening was exactly that, that the force isnt solely about religion, its about what yoda told us. Star Wars is about the force being the central character, not the Jedi.

From Anakins frustration at the order, Palpatine turning everyone against the jedi order, the corruption and manipulation of anakin through to the redemption. Now we have the EU story of Luke starting and failing at a new Jedi Order. Why are people demanding that Luke, who hasnt really been much of a Jedi suddenly gets laden with this wise old master tag? Ive heard that story and wanted something fresh. TLJ provided that. His reason for tossing the saber is that as the two new films touched upon that much is now legend and myth (like that EU story a lot wanted). Lukes painful story from Kylo's point of view was that Luke got it wrong. I can see Kylo's choice. What else could he do? In his eyes Luke was going to kill him. Lukes point of view is that he wasnt going to carry it out but can understand what he's done and the catalyst for Han's death etc. The gravitas of that situation, for me, was breathtaking. Luke thought that he could control and change the force by insisting that Kylo was behest of the religion. Kylo was strong with the force, just not with the religious constraints - Luke was already struggling with him we are told. Thus the lines in TFA of Leia when we hear 'theres too much Vader in him'. Of course there is. Anakin too found the Jedi order something impossible to adhere to. Luke was always going to fail, Leia knew it (was she aware that her Military Career and Han's smuggling/racing/itchy pants behaviour would always lead to a child growing up on the sidelines so was happy to hand him over to her brother?).

And thats why Luke retiring away from everything to Ach-to so heartbreaking. And thus so enchanting. His tossing of the lightsaber echoed that mischievous Yoda we saw in ESB. A lightsaber is just a thing, a tool. Luke isnt the legend Rey had heard, there was more to that story. And this was backed up in the child's play at the end. The story was that Luke did face the first order and hold them off.

Could Rey and Chewie bring him back to the failing resistance? No. The old bugger isnt moving. His hermit-isation was wonderful. Luke came from a simple life and returned to it. Kylo suggested the facetime power call would take immense power and we slowly saw it enter the physical realm with the moisture on Kylo. Its a power that we've seen build across the star wars media. We've had Vader and Palpatine (clone wars) force choke across the galaxy. With that in mind I thought we might see a Jedi pop through a portal to save the day. It almost happened. So to pull that off before becoming one with the force was a perfect ending. Yoda, Ben, both became one with the force. They werent chopped up or diced up. I'm hoping this is something we will see more in 9. Luke's physical interactions will i believe lead to a different conclusion in 9. I'm hoping his one with the force will mean we see something epic in 9 with force ghosts.

What I loved about the film were the main leads and their stories.
Poe - a great pilot but with any great strategy? He fucked up in TFA, He fucked up in TLJ. He got schooled by experienced generals and military. I believe this film will see him being a more rounded character in 9. Leia shooting him in her dressing gown was brilliant.
Rey - Similar to Poe she has an understandable innocence. With the force on her side she leaves Ach-to having failed, but she does learn that the Jedi order is no more. I still fail to understand where people are not seeing she's a very handy defender of herself from the first moment we see her. The only major force thing she does is move some rocks.. her backstory with shitty parents is her journey, she unlike Kylo can follow her own path. No baggage, and that scene in TFA when she looks at the crone performing her job is a great vision for her. Rey is my favourite character.
Finn - In my book the character who keeps learning. When he faces Phasma and also prepared to die to save everyone its when he finally realises that he cannot run. He can do something. His story arc and failure is brilliant. It also sits alongside the other two heroes so beautifully.

Yoda states that failure is part of life. All these characters fail majorly in this film (along with Luke). Poor decisions, riding on their legend or the legends of others to put things right, but realising that they have to step up for the greater good. Just great story telling IMHO. I know Canto bight gets a bit cheesey but Rose's introduction is there for Finn's development. As an old cheese I did love her line.

I could talk about this wonderful movie for days, there is so much to it. Sure some of the jokes and moments were silly, but their inclusion were to bring a more general audience in (the Hux on hold - animal rights - diversity in roles and responsibilities (Ackbar being killed and Holdo being included was VERY deliberate), much like TFA bought lapsed fans back in.

And finally.. the Leia in space scene chokes me up. I fucking loved it. First time I was relieved Leia wasn't dead. The second time I cried.. YES SHE's FUCKING ALIVE!!!

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Re: Rate TLJ out of ten

Postby TheJabbaWookie » Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:40 pm

Only just got round to adding my sixpence worth. Like many others there are bits I liked and bits that made me cringe. Many are covered here already.

I was largely disappointed with the scenes on Ahch-To, the whole handling of Luke’s character was humiliating, and all the most comically tragic SW creature creations reside here. There is a lot of hate for the Porgs but why they felt the need to include Mr. Toad from The Wind in the Willows fresh from breaking out of prison dressed as a washer woman I’ll never know.

I really didn’t like the Canto Bight scenes either, didn’t see what it added to the film and the characters there compared unfavourably to the worst characters in The Phantom Menace. Gareth Edwards did such a good job with the characters in Jedah in R1 in comparison.

But I did like the Kylo Ren character development and his conflict between dark and light. Shame that Supreme Leader Snoke was a master of the force, had been inside Kylo’s mind but couldn’t see his own demise. I didn’t buy that.

The thing that I didn’t buy most of all though and I’m not sure if it’s been mentioned here or not is that Rey is such a master of the force without training. It took Luke years of training to be competent in the ways of The Force, we saw him take ages training with Yoda to move a single rock in ESB but we are expected to buy into Rey moving all the rocks with minimal training. She doesn’t even look focussed in some of the scene. Even Yoda had to focus in lifting the x-Wing or in his battle with Emperor Palpatine.

In the end I guess Rogue 1 is a movie for the Star Wars fans that grew up with the OT whereas TLJ is a movie for a new breed of Star Wars fans. It would never live up to our nostalgic past, and as kids we were prepared to overlook some of the elements we would be critical of as adults today if we were watching it for the first time and not reliving our youth.

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Re: Rate TLJ out of ten

Postby SAVORY100 » Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:37 pm

TheJabbaWookie wrote:The thing that I didn’t buy most of all though and I’m not sure if it’s been mentioned here or not is that Rey is such a master of the force without training. It took Luke years of training to be competent in the ways of The Force, we saw him take ages training with Yoda to move a single rock in ESB but we are expected to buy into Rey moving all the rocks with minimal training. She doesn’t even look focussed in some of the scene. Even Yoda had to focus in lifting the x-Wing or in his battle with Emperor Palpatine.


Is there a reason that she couldn't be naturally more powerful than Yoda, Anakin et al?
Just because a benchmark has been set on film, within a tiny portion of the universe, why can't a newcomer (like Anakin before) to our eyes be the most powerful force user in the galaxy?
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Re: Rate TLJ out of ten

Postby TheJabbaWookie » Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:10 pm

SAVORY100 wrote:
TheJabbaWookie wrote:The thing that I didn’t buy most of all though and I’m not sure if it’s been mentioned here or not is that Rey is such a master of the force without training. It took Luke years of training to be competent in the ways of The Force, we saw him take ages training with Yoda to move a single rock in ESB but we are expected to buy into Rey moving all the rocks with minimal training. She doesn’t even look focussed in some of the scene. Even Yoda had to focus in lifting the x-Wing or in his battle with Emperor Palpatine.


Is there a reason that she couldn't be naturally more powerful than Yoda, Anakin et al?
Just because a benchmark has been set on film, within a tiny portion of the universe, why can't a newcomer (like Anakin before) to our eyes be the most powerful force user in the galaxy?

You maybe right - I suppose not completely inconceivable that there could be someone with that much power and raw talent. IMO though I don’t buy it, and it strikes me as an oversight or they rewrote the Jedi script to suit their plot. After all my understanding is that Anakin was trained by Obi Wan over a number of years. Obi Wan himself was trained by Qui-Jon Jinn like all Jedi before him. Luke was perceived by Yoda to be the person that would bring balance to the force but he was still trained by Ben and Yoda over a number of years before reaching his full power. Even Emperor Palpatine was trained by Darth Plagueis. But Rey has never been trained and she bested Supreme Leader Snoke’s apprentice Kylo Ren and can move more rocks than we’ve ever seen whilst unfocused. And nobody felt her presence...


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