Header image

Rate TLJ out of ten

Discuss all Star Wars films here - the original trilogy, prequel trilogy and the new Disney films.

What's your score for TLJ out of ten?

0-1, two hours of Jarjar would have been preferable
8
8%
2
5
5%
3
1
1%
4
6
6%
5
12
13%
6
17
18%
7
20
21%
8
14
15%
9
11
11%
10, it's the best SW ever ever ever
2
2%
 
Total votes: 96

User avatar
Grant_C
Grand Master
Grand Master
Posts: 8233
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2011 8:35 pm
Location: South Wales
Contact:

Re: Rate TLJ out of ten

Postby Grant_C » Thu Dec 28, 2017 3:10 pm

I’ve got 2 plot holes.

It does help if you watch it more than once. I thought it was full of plot holes, but after many viewings it all makes sense.

Unless you need everything explained in complete detail. Which was one reason the prequels where hated.

‘Time to abandon ship’ etc....

Or I can find an equivalent from the Devine OT that is equivalently overlooked.

Depends on how much exposition you feel is needed. I agree an extra line here and there could support motivations, but it’s not out of step with OT Star Wars.

I would advise giving it another go.

User avatar
Grant_C
Grand Master
Grand Master
Posts: 8233
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2011 8:35 pm
Location: South Wales
Contact:

Re: Rate TLJ out of ten

Postby Grant_C » Thu Dec 28, 2017 3:30 pm

And there is nothing.......like nothing, for TaunTauns to eat.

Nothing....... :lol:

weasel
Grand Master
Grand Master
Posts: 17752
Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2006 5:32 pm
Location: My Island

Re: Rate TLJ out of ten

Postby weasel » Thu Dec 28, 2017 4:43 pm

I have heard somewhere that the gravity in space for the bombs is apparently solved because the bombs home in or are heat seeking etc and thus once dropped are attracted to the SD.
OK, that does solve the problem but ehhh that isn't mentioned anywhere in the film which would, you know, but the obvious place to explain it. It also doesn't explain why fat chinese bird's sister isn't sucked out into space when the bomb doors are open. There's no forcefield shown or hinted at.

As for the other plot holes, they are still gigantic.

The one that ruins it for me is the first order just following along behind and not calling in any other ships to box the rebels in. You have been trying to hunt them down and destroy them for 40 years and apparently you control most of the galaxy so a lack of ships shouldn't be an issue. A primary school child could come up with the idea of calling in some other ships. Are we supposed to believe all those generals just had a brain freeze or were so dumb they didn't think of it? Kinda hard to beleive they could have risen so high in such a large organisation if they were prone to such dim-wittery.
I just can't get my had round that bit. It just ruins the film when the badies are so dumb just so the plot can stack up.
Smart enough to invent a way to track in hyper space but not smart enough to think of the glaringly obvious solution to chasing the rebels. :roll:
"You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought!"

User avatar
theforceuk
Grand Master
Grand Master
Posts: 5164
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 9:21 pm

Re: Rate TLJ out of ten

Postby theforceuk » Thu Dec 28, 2017 5:19 pm

Come on Weasel, you know you want to see it again. :wink:
'But I was going to Tosche Station to pick up some power converters.'

User avatar
Grant_C
Grand Master
Grand Master
Posts: 8233
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2011 8:35 pm
Location: South Wales
Contact:

Re: Rate TLJ out of ten

Postby Grant_C » Thu Dec 28, 2017 6:01 pm

I’m with you on that one. I have some ideas as to reasons why. Much like the question as to why rebel transports leaving Hoth fly directly towards are Star Destroyer.

I think this needed just a single line of clarity. For example. When Finn states ‘we are nowhere’, a simple line describing a reason why hyperspace is dangerous in that area would have been useful.

Or, can hyperspace jumps be done in short distance? Surely the slightest jump into hyperspace and ‘they would be on the other side of the galaxy by now’.

Or perhaps, as given by the reason of why Rebel transports leave hoth, that they are actually in a hyperspace lane. The reason that the hoth transports are flying towards a Star Destroyer in ESB, is because the Empire have put them right next to the beginning of hyperspace lanes. If the hyperspace Lane is where the 2 ships are, perhaps they are unable to outside the lane without risk or fear of crashing?

I think there are possibilities, but the only text given is sboutsublight engines. I don’t think this is a plot hole, but it does require more context. A simple line suggesting why they can’t hyperspace or call for reinforcements could make such a difference.

But if they have been looking to rid the resistance for 30 years, and this is the last of the heiracy, perhaps this alternative of tourturous impending doom is desired. Much like a cat slowly killing a mouse,one scratch at a time.

User avatar
Grant_C
Grand Master
Grand Master
Posts: 8233
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2011 8:35 pm
Location: South Wales
Contact:

Re: Rate TLJ out of ten

Postby Grant_C » Thu Dec 28, 2017 6:02 pm

Kind of reminds me of the parsec conversations from childhood.

I also feel that it’s no good explaining things in games and books. It must be in the context of the film.

User avatar
CaptainAntilles
Regular
Regular
Posts: 128
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2016 4:14 pm

Re: Rate TLJ out of ten

Postby CaptainAntilles » Thu Dec 28, 2017 6:28 pm

I went into the theatre with very low expectations ... and still managed to come out dissapointed . What a load of utter shite - 2/10
I met him in a swamp down in Dagoba
Where it bubbles all the time like a giant carbonated soda
S-O-D-A, soda

I saw the little runt sitting there on a log
I asked him his name and in a raspy voice he said "yoda"
Y-O-D-A, Yoda
yo yo yo yoda

jedisearcher
Jedi Master
Jedi Master
Posts: 1448
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2012 9:50 pm

Re: Rate TLJ out of ten

Postby jedisearcher » Thu Dec 28, 2017 6:41 pm

weasel wrote:I have heard somewhere that the gravity in space for the bombs is apparently solved because the bombs home in or are heat seeking etc and thus once dropped are attracted to the SD.
OK, that does solve the problem but ehhh that isn't mentioned anywhere in the film which would, you know, but the obvious place to explain it. It also doesn't explain why fat chinese bird's sister isn't sucked out into space when the bomb doors are open. There's no forcefield shown or hinted at.

As for the other plot holes, they are still gigantic.

The one that ruins it for me is the first order just following along behind and not calling in any other ships to box the rebels in. You have been trying to hunt them down and destroy them for 40 years and apparently you control most of the galaxy so a lack of ships shouldn't be an issue. A primary school child could come up with the idea of calling in some other ships. Are we supposed to believe all those generals just had a brain freeze or were so dumb they didn't think of it? Kinda hard to beleive they could have risen so high in such a large organisation if they were prone to such dim-wittery.
I just can't get my had round that bit. It just ruins the film when the badies are so dumb just so the plot can stack up.
Smart enough to invent a way to track in hyper space but not smart enough to think of the glaringly obvious solution to chasing the rebels. :roll:


Did you complain about the TIE bombers in ESB with their asteroid bomb runs?
Did you complain in R1 when the Tantive blasts off at the end and Vader is left standing on the edge of space?

I don’t remember any explanations for those parts of the films but you want one now?

On the space chase you’re dead right tho :lol:

Another complaint I’ve seen is about the arcing laser blasters from Snokes ship, but then we’ve watched laser blasters with a definite recoil for years (happens in R1 as well) and not complained so perhaps we just accept its science fiction and not science fact (or they are homing lasers pew pew :lol: )
WTB thread - most Palitoy 30b's and 3 debut 45a's: http://www.starwarsforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=17224

Memories from a 1980s Toy Shop: http://www.starwarsforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=24289

User avatar
Grant_C
Grand Master
Grand Master
Posts: 8233
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2011 8:35 pm
Location: South Wales
Contact:

Re: Rate TLJ out of ten

Postby Grant_C » Thu Dec 28, 2017 6:50 pm

Also best not think to hard about this scene.

All this criticism of Leia space walking. She’s been doing it since 1980 :)
Attachments
FABDBF33-E3B5-46E7-9D95-29950ECB8542.jpeg
FABDBF33-E3B5-46E7-9D95-29950ECB8542.jpeg (41.66 KiB) Viewed 62 times

weasel
Grand Master
Grand Master
Posts: 17752
Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2006 5:32 pm
Location: My Island

Re: Rate TLJ out of ten

Postby weasel » Thu Dec 28, 2017 7:15 pm

Grant_C wrote:I’m with you on that one. I have some ideas as to reasons why. Much like the question as to why rebel transports leaving Hoth fly directly towards are Star Destroyer.

I think this needed just a single line of clarity. For example. When Finn states ‘we are nowhere’, a simple line describing a reason why hyperspace is dangerous in that area would have been useful.

Or, can hyperspace jumps be done in short distance? Surely the slightest jump into hyperspace and ‘they would be on the other side of the galaxy by now’.

Or perhaps, as given by the reason of why Rebel transports leave hoth, that they are actually in a hyperspace lane. The reason that the hoth transports are flying towards a Star Destroyer in ESB, is because the Empire have put them right next to the beginning of hyperspace lanes. If the hyperspace Lane is where the 2 ships are, perhaps they are unable to outside the lane without risk or fear of crashing?

I think there are possibilities, but the only text given is sboutsublight engines. I don’t think this is a plot hole, but it does require more context. A simple line suggesting why they can’t hyperspace or call for reinforcements could make such a difference.

But if they have been looking to rid the resistance for 30 years, and this is the last of the heiracy, perhaps this alternative of tourturous impending doom is desired. Much like a cat slowly killing a mouse,one scratch at a time.


Interesting thoughts about the hyperspace lanes. Though, if the rebel ships are blocking them, surely the first order would have no issues with calling in a few ships and watching them crash into and destroy the last vestiges of the rebellion? Given the time they have spent hunting down the rebels the sacrifice would surely be worth it? Not that they or the empire ever gave a shit about sacrificing ships/stormtroopers willy nilly.

jedisearcher wrote:Did you complain about the TIE bombers in ESB with their asteroid bomb runs?
Did you complain in R1 when the Tantive blasts off at the end and Vader is left standing on the edge of space?

I don’t remember any explanations for those parts of the films but you want one now?

On the space chase you’re dead right tho :lol:

Another complaint I’ve seen is about the arcing laser blasters from Snokes ship, but then we’ve watched laser blasters with a definite recoil for years (happens in R1 as well) and not complained so perhaps we just accept its science fiction and not science fact (or they are homing lasers pew pew :lol: )


Fair point on Vader when Tantive blasts off. I had half assumed his suit with his breathing apparatus allowed him a degree of protection, but TBH the fact he was stood on the edge of space without a visible forcefield had passed me by.
The lasers bit had never bothered me. I hadn't noticed the arcing and would probably have assumed they were just homing, like missiles do.

Grant_C wrote:Also best not think to hard about this scene.

All this criticism of Leia space walking. She’s been doing it since 1980 :)


Yeah, but she is inside a space slug and everyone knows they create their own atmosphere and gravity ......duh! :lol:

I still can't get passed the lack of intelligence shown by the First Order when they are chasing the rebels though.
"You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought!"

User avatar
theforceuk
Grand Master
Grand Master
Posts: 5164
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 9:21 pm

Re: Rate TLJ out of ten

Postby theforceuk » Thu Dec 28, 2017 7:46 pm

Wasn’t one of the reasons A New Hope was so refreshing when it came out was because it didn’t try to explain itself in any great detail. George Lucas mentions this in an interview, saying a lot of science fiction movies up until that point spent most the screen time explaining why you could do this and that etc.
'But I was going to Tosche Station to pick up some power converters.'

User avatar
Grant_C
Grand Master
Grand Master
Posts: 8233
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2011 8:35 pm
Location: South Wales
Contact:

Re: Rate TLJ out of ten

Postby Grant_C » Thu Dec 28, 2017 8:04 pm

and then he (Lucas) betrays all those philosophy's in the prequels. :roll:

I noticed that a lot of complaints were from misplaced humour, and I agree that some of it felt inconsiderate of the emotional weight of scenes surrounding it. But then there's always stuff like the amazing Falcon scene in Star Wars. Depressed Luke to jubilant Luke in seconds. So in certain respects I think the film makers are very aware of what they are doing and sticking closely to the template of the first 2 films.
Attachments
zzz.jpg
zzz.jpg (87.79 KiB) Viewed 51 times

User avatar
theforceuk
Grand Master
Grand Master
Posts: 5164
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 9:21 pm

Re: Rate TLJ out of ten

Postby theforceuk » Thu Dec 28, 2017 8:31 pm

Very true about betraying those philosophies in the prequels, although I don’t think he made that mistake in ROTS so much.
'But I was going to Tosche Station to pick up some power converters.'

User avatar
Grant_C
Grand Master
Grand Master
Posts: 8233
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2011 8:35 pm
Location: South Wales
Contact:

Re: Rate TLJ out of ten

Postby Grant_C » Thu Dec 28, 2017 9:02 pm

I noticed that a lot of people rate ROTS as prequels go.

But for me, I don't understand the ending.

It takes away the biggest surprise in ESB (and cinema) by outing Vader as Anakin and Leia as the twin for ROTJ.

If you watch them in order, the surprises in the OT of Vader, Leia, Yoda.....could go on, are completely ruined. I'm surprised people give it a by.

I kind of like Yoda vs Palpatine, but doesn't that betray all of Yodas teachings. In AOTC, the message Lucas is sending through Yoda to children is to deal with your problems by fighting. Nothing like the philosophy's of ESB and ROTJ.

This is I think the strength and the long game by TLJ. I'm willing to bet that I was at the front of the line to see Luke get that green saber out. Been at the front of that line for 30 plus years.

But amazingly, Luke has never used his lightsaber when he was good, wise and thoughtful. He used it when he was reckless and naïve in ESB, when he was turning dark in Jabbas, but that was it. He threw away his saber in TLJ? He also did it in ROTJ!! This I think is far more in line with the original teaches of ESB and a much more important mythological tale to teach children.

I would have loved see Luke and Rey concur the first order, but really, whats the story? Haven't we seen the Master and Padawan before in Episodes 1,2,3,4? If someone can come up with a better story than the TLJ, id love to hear it. The final lesson that its ok to fail, because even Luke Skywalker can fail is a powerful one.

And that the film ended with children playing star wars toys of the legend of Luke Skywalker made our symmetrical experiences of childhood cannon was a stroke of genius.

Sorry for rattling on....I have an essay to do and should be doing that, but you mentioned Lucas and ive started a monologue......

User avatar
theforceuk
Grand Master
Grand Master
Posts: 5164
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 9:21 pm

Re: Rate TLJ out of ten

Postby theforceuk » Thu Dec 28, 2017 9:25 pm

Yeah some good points and I never thought about Luke chucking his lightsaber away in ROTJ. Some of my favourite scenes in TLJ are when Luke turns his green lightsaber on against a young Ben Solo.

I take your point about the prequels spoiling the suprises in the origionals and I always tell people who have never watched a star wars film before to start with the originals because of that and the fact most people would never watch another Star Wars film again after AOTC. But for me as a kid the scenes in ANH when Ben Kenobi is telling Luke about the dark times and the Emperor are amongst my favourite, I just remember thinking oh how did someone like Darth Vader ever be good!? So if ROTS had not revealed all that I would have be destraught. Ok ROTS could have been a lot better, but it still means a lot to me. :lol:

Yeah you should be doing your essay. :? :lol:
'But I was going to Tosche Station to pick up some power converters.'


Return to “Star Wars Films”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests