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And This Is Why I Hate Toxic "Fan" Boys and Their Bitching!

Discuss all Star Wars films here - the original trilogy, prequel trilogy and the new Disney films.
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Re: And This Is Why I Hate Toxic "Fan" Boys and Their Bitching!

Postby SAVORY100 » Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:12 am

Twin30mm wrote:
Dr_Ball_MD wrote:These manbaby pricks have been whinging about anything not unaltered original trilogy since Episode 1 came out and they're still here pissing their pants over a kids film.

Just fuck off and let the fans enjoy Star Wars you big bag of cocks.



Can a company be so out of touch with it's fanbase?


I think you mean, with a small but very vocal element of its fan base. 'The Fan base' is broadly happy with the output, the box office shows that.
If anything is clear about Solo's box office takings (I note that despite the context of prior SW releases, it is still in line with other 'blockbusters' in recent years from other franchises) its that Disney has made an error in release date and the marketing package for the film, linking the reaction to TLJ is laughable, the world really isn't that simplistic I'm afraid.

Despite reading a very repetitive volume of rhetoric against Disney an TLJ, I have in person met far more people that are very happy with the last 3-4 years of releases, the 'casual fan' will generate far more income at the box office than a 'hard core fan' by sheer volume alone and that is where they will pay attention as a business.

The 'fan base' is a very daft term really, what is a fan? someone that frequents FB and forums to comment? No, it's the same as it is in football, most 'fans' don't go to every football game their team plays, many more don't even watch every game on TV, even more than that only watch MOTD 3-4 times a year but will cheer or enter into banter conversations at work when their team wins that weekend... the casual fan is what makes up any fan base, its what influences.

It is most important to note here though that NONE of these proposed cancellations have been confirmed on ANY official channels at this stage. Nothing on Star Wars .com, nothing on Disney and nothing on any mainstream news channels, all blogs, forums, podcasts and internet chatter. once again we may all be discussing something (like the SW universe as a whole) that is made up nonsense.. move along, move along...
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Re: And This Is Why I Hate Toxic "Fan" Boys and Their Bitching!

Postby Twin30mm » Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:44 am

SAVORY100 wrote:I think you mean, with a small but very vocal element of its fan base. 'The Fan base' is broadly happy with the output, the box office shows that.
If anything is clear about Solo's box office takings (I note that despite the context of prior SW releases, it is still in line with other 'blockbusters' in recent years from other franchises) its that Disney has made an error in release date and the marketing package for the film, linking the reaction to TLJ is laughable, the world really isn't that simplistic I'm afraid.


Yeah, you're probably right regarding the fanbase. Time will tell.
I think the acid test will be the reaction to Episode IX. The divisiveness of TLJ may have diluted by then.
If not, who knows.....

SAVORY100 wrote:Despite reading a very repetitive volume of rhetoric against Disney an TLJ, I have in person met far more people that are very happy with the last 3-4 years of releases, the 'casual fan' will generate far more income at the box office than a 'hard core fan' by sheer volume alone and that is where they will pay attention as a business.


TBH, I thought it was the other way round. Probably misremembering, but isn't there something called the "80/20" rule.
Where a brand earns approximately 80 percent of its profits from the top 20 percent of its customer base (the 'hardcore').

There's a great video regarding the 'long-tail' of Star Wars fandom....


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Re: And This Is Why I Hate Toxic "Fan" Boys and Their Bitching!

Postby Darth Bobby » Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:47 pm

All of the drama surrounding these films is doing my head in. They are films for fucks sake. If you don’t like them don’t watch them. So much unessesary bitching and fighting. Suddenly everyone is a film critic and needs to lash out online, Disney want to make some money. Get over it. The internet has given a voice to the man on the street, to quote Sid Vicious: “I’ve met the man on the street and he is a cunt.”

I bet George Lucas is pleased he bailed. So many nasty people out there. Who needs the stress?

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Re: And This Is Why I Hate Toxic "Fan" Boys and Their Bitching!

Postby Snaketibe » Fri Jun 22, 2018 2:04 pm

SAVORY100 wrote:'The Fan base' is broadly happy with the output, the box office shows that.


What the box office actually shows is that TLJ made $722 million less than TFA. And it would have been a hell of a lot less than that if people like me, (who went to see TLJ once, expecting to then make multiple repeat viewings, but didn't because they hated it) had known what it was like before handing over their ticket money. The toy sales are in the sewer. TLJ Blu-ray sales are unsurprisingly also piss-poor. These are NOT things that derive from the fan base being 'broadly happy with the output'. SOME of the fan base is happy, but some of it most certainly is not.

I understand that you personally like TLJ and have no problems with it. I have no problem with you (or anyone else) liking it. But you do seem to be wilfully blind to the fact that a huge section of the fan base does have a problem with TLJ. I am not some toxic fan boy and neither am I an alt-right, sexist, racist, misogynistic, whiny manbaby. I simply don't like TLJ, and for the same reasons that most others that don't like it (crap, boring, nonsensical, non-canonical story, which rides roughshod over not only the OT, but even TFA, which treats the character of Luke Skywalker with astonishing disrespect, and which simply fails to please a massive chunk of its target audience). Yes there is also a very vocal minority of assholes disliking the film for very different reasons, but that doesn't mean my own and other people's reasons for disliking it aren't valid. For example, I dislike the character of Rose Tico, not because she is a woman, not because Kelly Tran has Vietnamese heritage, but because the character is crap, thoroughly unconvincing, completely unnecessary and adds zero to the plot other than a hugely implausible and needless 'love interest' for Finn. If a few loud sexist, racist cunts dislike Rose and Kelly Tran because the character is female and or because Kelly is not white, that doesn't devalue my own criticisms, even though I abhor theirs.

The simple truth is that Disney have divided the fan base with their mismanagement of the franchise in general and with TLJ in particular, and they are beginning to pay the price for it. Solo deserved to do much better at the box office than it did, IMHO (I'm actually going to see it again this very evening, as it happens), but a lot of fans are understandably pissed off. If Disney serve them up a shit sandwich for breakfast, they shouldn't be surprised if people decline their invitation to dinner, and I don't doubt many fans stayed away from Solo after disliking TLJ. I personally did not take this view as I was prepared to give Solo a chance, but a lot of fans won't. I also don't doubt that there will be other reasons for Solo's poor performance as well (and it IS a poor performance, despite your claim that its takings are in line with other blockbusters, as it is heading for a loss!), including poor marketing, the fact it was released just five months after TLJ, and also competition from other films, but there is undoubtedly also going to be a reduction due to a 'once bitten, twice shy' syndrome from fans that hate TLJ.

And since you provide your own anecdotal evidence that you 'have in person met far more people that are very happy with the last 3-4 years of releases' (which I am quite happy to accept, btw), I will counter with my own anecdotal evidence that I have met exceptionally few people that do like TLJ. Most people I've met seem broadly happy with TFA and Rogue One and also Solo (those that have seen it), but very few have had a good word to say about TLJ. That doesn't mean there aren't others like you out there that do like the film, but please don't kid yourself or insult our intelligence by pretending there isn't a very large and seriously pissed off chunk of the fan base (and I include all Star Wars fans, great and small in that catch-all term) that don't share that view.

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Re: And This Is Why I Hate Toxic "Fan" Boys and Their Bitching!

Postby SAVORY100 » Fri Jun 22, 2018 2:13 pm

Twin30mm wrote:
SAVORY100 wrote:I think you mean, with a small but very vocal element of its fan base. 'The Fan base' is broadly happy with the output, the box office shows that.
If anything is clear about Solo's box office takings (I note that despite the context of prior SW releases, it is still in line with other 'blockbusters' in recent years from other franchises) its that Disney has made an error in release date and the marketing package for the film, linking the reaction to TLJ is laughable, the world really isn't that simplistic I'm afraid.


Yeah, you're probably right regarding the fanbase. Time will tell.
I think the acid test will be the reaction to Episode IX. The divisiveness of TLJ may have diluted by then.
If not, who knows.....

SAVORY100 wrote:Despite reading a very repetitive volume of rhetoric against Disney an TLJ, I have in person met far more people that are very happy with the last 3-4 years of releases, the 'casual fan' will generate far more income at the box office than a 'hard core fan' by sheer volume alone and that is where they will pay attention as a business.


TBH, I thought it was the other way round. Probably misremembering, but isn't there something called the "80/20" rule.
Where a brand earns approximately 80 percent of its profits from the top 20 percent of its customer base (the 'hardcore').

There's a great video regarding the 'long-tail' of Star Wars fandom....



Interesting video, funnily enough I’d agree with 80% of it, the other 20% is utter nonsense.

80/20... you’ll make 80% of your money from 20% of your products. Absolutely NOT 20% of your people though.

Anyway, maybe I mis l-expressed my thoughts as I’m saying the greater box office income will come from the larger portion of folk that are not what we call fans but might call them self fans and are what I termed a casual fan. These are clearly more led by marketing than a fandom dictating that they visit and see the latest release.
My friend Andy is very good example, he has a shelf in his office with the BluRay boxset and maybe three Lego buildable figures. He also has a cardboard cut out of a stormtrooper he was given in Asda.
He calls himself a Star Wars fan and will go to the new films when they come out either because I’m going or his daughter wants to see it. He has an interest in Star Wars, loves all the new stuff because he views it at face value. I’d note he’s a very intelligent chap with a high powered job, so he’s not a dummy that accepts what he’s given.
My work colleague Kev is another, he has no Star Wars Toys, clothing or collection, has never read a sw novel etc. He did go and see TLJ and thought it was decent because his son wanted to go to it because (I’m guessing) it was well marketed to a 9 year old lad.
Andy and Kev (and their respective kids) are to my mind the bigger component of what delivers a box office result. A casual fan.
Andy came with me to watch Solo and only took his daughter because he wanted to see it again, she had no idea it was on. Kev hasn’t seen Solo, Alex (his son) hasn’t asked to see it, they saw Jurassic World though...
The noisy and grumpy chaps that have lost their mind with how angry a kids film franchises evolution has made them are such a tiny part of the box office results. So the noise they make is meaningless to the machine.
Now... the larger cross marketed income streams are totally different and are in turn marketed to a totally different market segmentations. These are where there will be concern at the likes of Disney, but it is unlikely to be felt for a few years as I would expect the licences for Funko or whatever other gubbins those folk buy won’t renew for a few years, possibly even on a ten year contract. Hasbro will have seen some pinch I expect, but you could argue their own pricing, marketing and distribution is at fault more than the films themselves.
It’s likely that by the time these are renewed, the Disney debate will have died down and something new will have come along to moan about.
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Re: And This Is Why I Hate Toxic "Fan" Boys and Their Bitching!

Postby SAVORY100 » Fri Jun 22, 2018 2:18 pm

Snaketibe wrote:
SAVORY100 wrote:'The Fan base' is broadly happy with the output, the box office shows that.


What the box office actually shows is that TLJ made $722 million less than TFA. And it would have been a hell of a lot less than that if people like me, (who went to see TLJ once, expecting to then make multiple repeat viewings, but didn't because they hated it) had known what it was like before handing over their ticket money. The toy sales are in the sewer. TLJ Blu-ray sales are unsurprisingly also piss-poor. These are NOT things that derive from the fan base being 'broadly happy with the output'. SOME of the fan base is happy, but some of it most certainly is not.

I understand that you personally like TLJ and have no problems with it. I have no problem with you (or anyone else) liking it. But you do seem to be wilfully blind to the fact that a huge section of the fan base does have a problem with TLJ. I am not some toxic fan boy and neither am I an alt-right, sexist, racist, misogynistic, whiny manbaby. I simply don't like TLJ, and for the same reasons that most others that don't like it (crap, boring, nonsensical, non-canonical story, which rides roughshod over not only the OT, but even TFA, which treats the character of Luke Skywalker with astonishing disrespect, and which simply fails to please a massive chunk of its target audience). Yes there is also a very vocal minority of assholes disliking the film for very different reasons, but that doesn't mean my own and other people's reasons for disliking it aren't valid. For example, I dislike the character of Rose Tico, not because she is a woman, not because Kelly Tran has Vietnamese heritage, but because the character is crap, thoroughly unconvincing, completely unnecessary and adds zero to the plot other than a hugely implausible and needless 'love interest' for Finn. If a few loud sexist, racist cunts dislike Rose and Kelly Tran because the character is female and or because Kelly is not white, that doesn't devalue my own criticisms, even though I abhor theirs.

The simple truth is that Disney have divided the fan base with their mismanagement of the franchise in general and with TLJ in particular, and they are beginning to pay the price for it. Solo deserved to do much better at the box office than it did, IMHO (I'm actually going to see it again this very evening, as it happens), but a lot of fans are understandably pissed off. If Disney serve them up a shit sandwich for breakfast, they shouldn't be surprised if people decline their invitation to dinner, and I don't doubt many fans stayed away from Solo after disliking TLJ. I personally did not take this view as I was prepared to give Solo a chance, but a lot of fans won't. I also don't doubt that there will be other reasons for Solo's poor performance as well (and it IS a poor performance, despite your claim that its takings are in line with other blockbusters, as it is heading for a loss!), including poor marketing, the fact it was released just five months after TLJ, and also competition from other films, but there is undoubtedly also going to be a reduction due to a 'once bitten, twice shy' syndrome from fans that hate TLJ.

And since you provide your own anecdotal evidence that you 'have in person met far more people that are very happy with the last 3-4 years of releases' (which I am quite happy to accept, btw), I will counter with my own anecdotal evidence that I have met exceptionally few people that do like TLJ. Most people I've met seem broadly happy with TFA and Rogue One and also Solo (those that have seen it), but very few have had a good word to say about TLJ. That doesn't mean there aren't others like you out there that do like the film, but please don't kid yourself or insult our intelligence by pretending there isn't a very large and seriously pissed off chunk of the fan base (and I include all Star Wars fans, great and small in that catch-all term) that don't share that view.


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It will be one less moaning voice that didn’t get what they wanted... man baby much... sigh
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Re: And This Is Why I Hate Toxic "Fan" Boys and Their Bitching!

Postby edd_jedi » Fri Jun 22, 2018 2:27 pm

Personally I think it's a good thing, they need to slow down to avoid saturating the franchise. Star Wars fans are used to having 3 films 3 years apart with 20 odd year gaps between each three. The current film every year schedule is burning the franchise out. Lots of people have noticed that nobody cares about the toys, there's little buzz for each new film now. It's because they are coming out so regularly, not because of a handful of fans moaning.

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Re: And This Is Why I Hate Toxic "Fan" Boys and Their Bitching!

Postby edd_jedi » Fri Jun 22, 2018 2:39 pm

Just to add although I thought TLJ was pretty naff I did enjoy Solo, so am not against new films. But the new films are never going to be classics if they churn them out as quickly as the Marvel films. I prefer quality over quantity.

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Re: And This Is Why I Hate Toxic "Fan" Boys and Their Bitching!

Postby db94 » Fri Jun 22, 2018 2:59 pm

As far as "Toxic" goes it's definitely my observation that people on here and FB that didn't enjoy TLJ criticise the film but people that liked it criticise those that didn't.


Seen lots of examples of people saying that they no longer enjoy the new stuff but happy for those that do just to be met with cries of "you're a manbaby, you're a troll, you're messing up SW for everyone" No they just don't like the new films!


Shame that people can't except that not everyone enjoys the new stuff without immediately trying to portray them as a problem or threat to SW.


If someone posts they went to see it 10 times because they loved it that's great, I have no right to question their choice to do so but if I post up that I chose not to see Solo because I no longer enjoy the films......well fuck me I'm the spawn of Satan and responsible for killing SW and clearly I'm a troll, hate the franchise, not a true fan etc etc.

Read through the various threads on here and see how many times someone that didn't enjoy the film has a pop at those that did, can you find any examples.......? Nope not one but have a quick look to see how many times the opposite happens......yeah lots of examples so as far as toxic goes it's pretty one sided.

If you like what Disney are producing great - go and see it as many times as you want, it's your right to do so but for the love of fuck don't start greetin when others don't. I didn't go and see it, I'm not a problem I'm a consumer!

Said it many times before - have an opinion on the films not on those that don't agree with your opinion.
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Re: And This Is Why I Hate Toxic "Fan" Boys and Their Bitching!

Postby Grant_C » Fri Jun 22, 2018 3:33 pm

Snaketibe wrote:
SAVORY100 wrote:'The Fan base' is broadly happy with the output, the box office shows that.


What the box office actually shows is that TLJ made $722 million less than TFA. And it would have been a hell of a lot less than that if people like me, (who went to see TLJ once, expecting to then make multiple repeat viewings, but didn't because they hated it) had known what it was like before handing over their ticket money. The toy sales are in the sewer. TLJ Blu-ray sales are unsurprisingly also piss-poor. These are NOT things that derive from the fan base being 'broadly happy with the output'. SOME of the fan base is happy, but some of it most certainly is not.



There is an argument that shows the middle film of the OT and PT had equal drops and this fits perfectly into that model. Its not easy to see how much was lost by fans not repeat viewing. Its very possible that if the film was universally loved, it could have made $2 billion. We will never know I guess.

I don't agree with your point on the toys. Yes they are in the sewer, but speaking to Dave Tree, he said that action figure toys are in the sewer over all ranges (except Lego). 3 3/4 action figures are a 40 year old concept and apparently kids are more interested in their video games and phone apps now than playing with action figures. Its doesn't help that all of the TLJ toys were the same figures as the from the TFA range (except Luke/Rose/Paige). They were all wearing the same clothes pretty much with different sculpts. Not exactly attractive and many stockists still had a ton of TFA and R1 toys that are heavily discounted. Plus the rising price of engineering toys means no vast amount of ships are being made. Just a handful per-film. I think the time for 3 3/4 toys are over. Hasbro know this and that's why the 6inch black series aimed at collectors has taken off. So while I think you may be right on toy sales being in the sewer, I believe that this will be the case for action figure toy lines going forward regardless of the popularity of the film.

I agree with the Blu-Ray sales, but do we know how the sales compare to other similar films? Has it been illegally downloaded more than other films?

This is an interesting read. I look forward to reading every ones POV on this.

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Re: And This Is Why I Hate Toxic "Fan" Boys and Their Bitching!

Postby Twin30mm » Fri Jun 22, 2018 3:35 pm

Great, well balanced post Snaketibe.
Don't think it deserved that response from Savory100.

And on that note......

db94 wrote:Said it many times before - have an opinion on the films not on those that don't agree with your opinion.


Exactly.
I hate TLJ with an absolute passion, but respect that fellow fans enjoyed it. The least you can ask for, is that respect is reciprocated.

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Re: And This Is Why I Hate Toxic "Fan" Boys and Their Bitching!

Postby Grant_C » Fri Jun 22, 2018 4:07 pm

db94 wrote:As far as "Toxic" goes it's definitely my observation that people on here and FB that didn't enjoy TLJ criticise the film but people that liked it criticise those that didn't.


Seen lots of examples of people saying that they no longer enjoy the new stuff but happy for those that do just to be met with cries of "you're a manbaby, you're a troll, you're messing up SW for everyone" No they just don't like the new films!



I haven't seen that. Can you show evidence of that if its not to much bother?

Edit- actually, ignore that. It could derail a good thread :P

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Re: And This Is Why I Hate Toxic "Fan" Boys and Their Bitching!

Postby SAVORY100 » Fri Jun 22, 2018 4:28 pm

I have no problem at all with people not liking the new films, if you take a moment to read through my many posts on heee I have on manny many occasions stated that I think it’s great that everyone likes different things

What I have a problem with is the repetitive and totally unbalanced commentary that is continually repeated to tell people why the films are not liked.
Just say “I’m not a fan” (and I’m not suggesting of Star Wars) and move on...

Whether it fits an ideal you had or not is not in any way being objective about what was delivered, there is no need to keep saying why you don’t like it. Your personal opinion about an actors ability or directors decisions is utterly meaningless. You (and I) have zero influence on the films and it’s wasted air.

I think if you read through all my posts in the subject I’ve never seen a reason to put into words why I love it. There is no point, it’s just my opinion.
Getting into detail just winds other folk up, doing it in an aggressive tone adds fuel to that.

Calling Snaketibe a man baby is rude, I apologise.

I was genuinely trying to share some insights about performance and casual fan impact vs ‘full on fan’ impact.
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Re: And This Is Why I Hate Toxic "Fan" Boys and Their Bitching!

Postby indianawars » Fri Jun 22, 2018 5:11 pm

My grievances aren't with any forum members and their views over the new wave of films... and yes, I also disliked TLJ. My main issues are with these silly people who start partitions, create hundreds of hate videos and attempt bullying tactics if you dare debate them over it (not directed at any forum members). I saw a bunch of hate comments directed at one poor guy on a youtube because he dared to disagree that Kathleen Kennedy should be fired. That's why I call them toxic "fan" boys. These people had a direct influence over Disneys decision to cancel upcoming films.

It's funny because several weeks ago, a friend and I were talking about Disney pulling the plug on SW over the extreme backlash. I think one bad movie out of four is pretty forgivable. And who knows, by the end of episode 9, peoples views on TLJ may change when we have the final and full picture. I hope Disney knock episode 9 out of the park and leave people begging for more. It's highly unlikely, but what a way to stick the middle finger up at those haters.

I also agree that they should have been releasing a new film once every 18 months/two years.

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Re: And This Is Why I Hate Toxic "Fan" Boys and Their Bitching!

Postby SAVORY100 » Fri Jun 22, 2018 5:47 pm

I still can’t find any evidence that any films have been cancelled. Can anyone share an actual source that states this is happening?
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