Long Time suspected FAKE baggies scam / seller

yoda said:

Theres a saying it takes a wise man to act a fool.

Click to expand...

Add to the above

"Oh! What a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive"

There is always a trail to wrongdoing, and it will catch up with you in the end.

Emails from Jeff about hammer head (purple text) & walrus man baaggiess, which I bought both of & returned as both turned out to be fakes, I wanted to look the purple text one over as had never seen any like it before, but both were as said clear fakes & returned as such.

Now this is the EXACT SAME baggie Jeff had on his stall for sale at the last FF event (August 2016) which was pointed out to be one of the 3 fakes spotted by Marc C (theguiltyone) on here which I am sure he will confirm.

So yet another example of a baggie that has been 100% confirmed as a fake to Jeff all the way back in 2015 & still being offered for sale :?

he also confirms he removed the figure from the baggie to be added to his loose set in the final reply :? so how did it end up on the stall aat FF in 2016 when you opened it back in 2015 ???? - I don't understand the fuzzy logic

Also a little interesting info about knowing there were indeed obviously distinguishable differences in some of the SW-a baggies he has like soft baggies (only ever came in crisp baggies) & top heat seals (never came with top heat seals) the top heat seals bit ties in with the other fake SW-a type that was listed for sale on ebay last week BTW

An email where we had a discussion of the red text & red sticker (Meccano free figure offer) baggies, Jeff confirms he does not have any ass of 20/1/2015 so if he has bought them since thats only 2 years, surely there must be some records about where & whom they came from to trace back???? he also states he does not have a red text Macau baggie, but is now saying yes he has (see his thread) & has had it in his collection for years - I am confused :?

Frunkstar said:

Emails from Jeff about hammer head (purple text) & walrus man baaggiess, which I bought both of & returned as both turned out to be fakes, I wanted to look the purple text one over as had never seen any like it before, but both were as said clear fakes & returned as such.

Now this is the EXACT SAME baggie Jeff had on his stall for sale at the last FF event (August 2016) which was pointed out to be one of the 3 fakes spotted by Marc C (theguiltyone) on here which I am sure he will confirm.

So yet another example of a baggie that has been 100% confirmed as a fake to Jeff all the way back in 2015 & still being offered for sale :?

he also confirms he removed the figure from the baggie to be added to his loose set in the final reply :? so how did it end up on the stall aat FF in 2016 when you opened it back in 2015 ???? - I don't understand the fuzzy logic

HH warning1.png

HH pic.jpg

HH warning thanks.png

HH confirmed fake.png

HH fakes returns.png

HH opened.png

Click to expand...

Yup, thats the same one alright.

Marc

theguiltyone said:

Frunkstar said:

Emails from Jeff about hammer head (purple text) & walrus man baaggiess, which I bought both of & returned as both turned out to be fakes, I wanted to look the purple text one over as had never seen any like it before, but both were as said clear fakes & returned as such.

Now this is the EXACT SAME baggie Jeff had on his stall for sale at the last FF event (August 2016) which was pointed out to be one of the 3 fakes spotted by Marc C (theguiltyone) on here which I am sure he will confirm.

So yet another example of a baggie that has been 100% confirmed as a fake to Jeff all the way back in 2015 & still being offered for sale :?

he also confirms he removed the figure from the baggie to be added to his loose set in the final reply :? so how did it end up on the stall aat FF in 2016 when you opened it back in 2015 ???? - I don't understand the fuzzy logic

HH warning1.png

HH pic.jpg

HH warning thanks.png

HH confirmed fake.png

HH fakes returns.png

HH opened.png

Click to expand...

Yup, thats the same one alright.

Marc

Click to expand...

The simple fact of the matter is he has told you one story to appease you and then taken the decision to sell the baggie anyway.

Either he didn't believe you, didn't think you were right or just decided to sell it anyway. Seems to be a recurring theme.

I am getting a little lost in all this evidence, which has been shocking. Please pardon this question if it is glaringly obvious elsewhere. Frank, have you confirmed that Jeff has sold or tried to sell baggies that have been refused grading by ukg?

Mr-shifter said:

theguiltyone said:

Frunkstar said:

Emails from Jeff about hammer head (purple text) & walrus man baaggiess, which I bought both of & returned as both turned out to be fakes, I wanted to look the purple text one over as had never seen any like it before, but both were as said clear fakes & returned as such.

Now this is the EXACT SAME baggie Jeff had on his stall for sale at the last FF event (August 2016) which was pointed out to be one of the 3 fakes spotted by Marc C (theguiltyone) on here which I am sure he will confirm.

So yet another example of a baggie that has been 100% confirmed as a fake to Jeff all the way back in 2015 & still being offered for sale :?

he also confirms he removed the figure from the baggie to be added to his loose set in the final reply :? so how did it end up on the stall aat FF in 2016 when you opened it back in 2015 ???? - I don't understand the fuzzy logic

HH warning1.png

HH pic.jpg

HH warning thanks.png

HH confirmed fake.png

HH fakes returns.png

HH opened.png

Click to expand...

Yup, thats the same one alright.

Marc

Click to expand...

The simple fact of the matter is he has told you one story to appease you and then taken the decision to sell the baggie anyway.

Either he didn't believe you, didn't think you were right or just decided to sell it anyway. Seems to be a recurring theme.

I am getting a little lost in all this evidence, which has been shocking. Please pardon this question if it is glaringly obvious elsewhere. Frank, have you confirmed that Jeff has sold or tried to sell baggies that have been refused grading by ukg?

Click to expand...

Jeff has never submitted ANY items for grading at UKG I would have to do a hell of a lot of digging & cross checking to see if any of the ones I have sent to UKG & have failed were from Jeff & were then returned & re-sold, that could take weeks as I have 4 years worth of emails we are talking about here, I am still going through the email streams now to gather further evidence, each stream comprising up to 100 messages, so it's a gargantuan task, I have 10 more to get through, but have been through 28, I also still have further evidence to put forward from the previously gone through emails

Frunkstar said:

Mr-shifter said:

theguiltyone said:

Yup, thats the same one alright.

Marc

Click to expand...

The simple fact of the matter is he has told you one story to appease you and then taken the decision to sell the baggie anyway.

Either he didn't believe you, didn't think you were right or just decided to sell it anyway. Seems to be a recurring theme.

I am getting a little lost in all this evidence, which has been shocking. Please pardon this question if it is glaringly obvious elsewhere. Frank, have you confirmed that Jeff has sold or tried to sell baggies that have been refused grading by ukg?

Click to expand...

Jeff has never submitted ANY items for grading at UKG I would have to do a hell of a lot of digging & cross checking to see if any of the ones I have sent to UKG & have failed were from Jeff & were then returned & re-sold, that could take weeks as I have 4 years worth of emails we are talking about here, I am still going through the email streams now to gather further evidence, each stream comprising up to 100 messages, so it's a gargantuan task, I have 10 more to get through, but have been through 28, I also still have further evidence to put forward from the previously gone through emails

Click to expand...

Frank, I think the evidence is already completely overwhelming in favour of your original allegations. If anyone is disputing it, then I think they're badly misguided and the fault is with them rather than you.

As Jeff is clearly not going to respond to direct allegations on specific examples it really comes down to what he proposes next and how people take those decisions as to whether his reputation remains anywhere near intact.

On that basis, you can probably take a well eaned break rather than breaking your neck providing more evidence that'll never be refuted, and is unlikely to change anyone's mind either way.

You and the rest of the team have done a fabulous job outing the issue.

A little more to confirm the point about buying in bulk rather than just buying a little here & there to help pay for you own collection as many of us on a budget have to.



A email snippet showing bulk buys of trash monsters & probots on pre order for Mr Mullan who we all know to be a serial U grader, Jeff was fully aware that these were all going to be open'd & U-graded for maximum profit & was considering doing the same himself which I also have in my emails - shame :|



One of the lot's shown to me for sale, not just a few items here & there



4-Lom mailers in bulk



confirming only 15 EV-9D9's left :shock:



multiple MOC & Mailers coming in, also worth noting the comment about the EB set paperwork from Spain as we all know only quality stuff is available from Spain right? maybe a total coincidence but worries me considering the reproduction paperwork thats surfaced with his EB Set(s) a little more of further EB sets he has had issues with in the next post BTW



Comments pertaining to the huge haul in the email photos above as well as the mailers



Conformation of multiple trash monster baggies & probots being sold to Robbie for onward U grading as well as the aforementioned idea of just having them U graded himself to miss out the middle man & maximize profits :| & even confirming he knows this will piss me off with my anti U grade stance on opening baggies



Conformation he was also selling them in bulk to the ebay member "starwarsfigures" as I said earlier who also has them U graded & also quoting them as "overstock" rather than genuine as I said the only possible explanation if they were genuine is that they are overstock either done at Kenner or an aftermarket buyer - so never any conformation they are authentic

Some further concerns when it comes to EB sets Jeff has sold after the one he sold with issues / fake items / re-sealed items ETC, so thats at least 3 affected EB sets with major issues, not like it's a low value item & ideally if you are selling this kind of thing you should know your stuff & make sure every piece is authentic & checks out before selling it & hoping for the best or that someone may not notice - just how may more sold "could have" potential issues?



Conformation of a SW-a that was confirmed as a fake, so by this time 6/8/15 he knew there were SW-a's with issues but did not look in to the matter further to weed out other possible fakes - you can lead a horse to water.



This one below also shows an 8D8 I got from Jeff & still have with IMO is a clear fake, just look at the font :? I bought it on the off chance of it being something I had not seen before as I often do, though in hand it was quite obviously incorrect, by this time I had got so fed up returning items I really could not be bothered anymore as it was relatively low value & just chucked it in my questionable/fakes box of oddities - yes still got every fake & questionable baggie I have ever bought over the years & never even contemplated opening them (baggie reference fakes section) or for that matter considered punting them on under the radar or back door for a few quid.

The baggie scandal is certainly what this is all about but I must admit that reading these most recent emails it has made me feel a bit sick about the real lack of interest in vintage Star Wars collecting. It's seems to me about how much profit can be made by buying up cheap and then passing on for a fat profit. There's almost a feeling of Jeff laughing about making a good profit and also some of these bulk items are just getting passed onto other dealers who are marking them up even more, yeah keep it in the family and shows what a real collector Jeff is.

It's really hard to believe anything Jeff has said or written recently on this matter when looking at his emails, it really does sound like two different people and if you're reading this Jeff you need to answer the specific questions you've been asked from day one as so far you haven't really given me any reason not to believe Frank and the others on the investigation team. There are some very simple questions that you need to answer in the other thread you started with your letter, if they can't be answered then it's going to be hard for anyone to side with you.

Ian

Some further info on SW-a baggies worth looking at IMO -



Above the fake baggie SW-a leia in question & confirmed as fake (email screen shot in last post) - this one was sold to Kevin (kevlad on here)



Me unequivocally stating the turtle neck in SW-a is incorrect



Jeff asking is the SW-a turtle neck is correct & me confirming that it is not - yet he went on to sell anyway WTF Jeff????? :evil:



Me confirming all my SW-a baggies of which I have quite a collection, are all the same in terms of baggie type/font type & that Iwas happy he would accept the retun of the bad one, he even (at that point) as you see had me questioning me thoughts about some of the fakes :?



Multiple SW-a baggies types confirmed - there is only one baggie type, though there are 2 font's you can find, both the same style, just one is a little larger than the other - this is info pending for the guide BTW (minor font variations)



Note the part about them being mint bags, no sign of yellowing on the tape or any movement which after 30+ years is most unusual, also this which on reading it back years later is worrying on retrospect quote - have hardly been handled





Photo sent via email of SW-a baggies he was offering, spot the fakes, I actually bought one of his SW-a the R5's not sure if it was the one in this picture & returned it as it was clearly fake, TBH till now I had totally forgotten about this one, date again long time ago 7/5/15, so he was fully aware there were issues surrounding SW-a baggies & they need to be looked at in close detail for red flags like the god awful font & saying he wants to quote -push them at max profit

Now at this time these below are something I can not 100% confirm as being fake, but I am pretty convinced they are as I have now spoken to 2 other collectors who have both of the baggie types the rebo band came in, both those guys have stated that both the Made In Hong Konk text & no text ones they own which came out of boxed sets are the same feel in terms of thickness & have similar if not identical heat seals, mine feel really soft & flimsy, I am sure if I test the font it would also rub off very easily looking at it under a 10 X's magnifying eyepiece, I paid top dollar for these at the time, now relegated to the questionable/fakes baggies box along with that palitoy 8D8 baggies I spoke of above & many more from Jeff, the 8D8 is mentioned below in the same email reply from Jeff, so I bought 4 baggies at that time & it would "seem" that 4 for 4 were/are fake - not a great ratio really is it if these tri logo rebo baggies are indeed as I suspect fakes







I am also extremely concerned the probot baggies of which a great many have been sold by Jeff are also questionable - sadly the hole is getting no shallower is it.

For someone who "doesn't need the money" he seems to bang on about profit and making maximum profit alot doesn't he? The guys full of it. I wouldn't trust a word he says.

Caswellbot said:

For someone who "doesn't need the money" he seems to bang on about profit and making maximum profit alot doesn't he? The guys full of it. I wouldn't trust a word he says.

Click to expand...

That's pretty much where I am. If there was a solid defence, he'd have stated it. Offering to send all of his baggies to UKG is a joke - who is to say he will send everything?

At this point, he needs to:

1. Offer refunds on baggies Frank confirms are fake.
2. Answer the questions regarding the ebay feedback and second account (what SW has been bought on the second account, why so many loose figures and weapons when he supposedly has 650 baggie figures).
3. Why were fake/returned baggies resold?
4. Think very carefully about where these came from and disclose it - there are a lot of fakes and likely not from multiple sellers (imo). If there isn't one source of the fakes I'd be surprised - even if Jeff didnt deal with the source directly there is somebody knocking out fakes somewhere and we need to start to work out who that is.

maxf said:

Caswellbot said:

For someone who "doesn't need the money" he seems to bang on about profit and making maximum profit alot doesn't he? The guys full of it. I wouldn't trust a word he says.

Click to expand...

4. Think very carefully about where these came from and disclose it - there are a lot of fakes and likely not from multiple sellers (imo). If there isn't one source of the fakes I'd be surprised - even if Jeff didnt deal with the source directly there is somebody knocking out fakes somewhere and we need to start to work out who that is.

Click to expand...

A key point, Jeff is coming across as exceedingly untrustworthy but if anything the latest email extracts have convinced me he's buying most of these fakes in. Strikes me as someone is taking advantage of his greed. It would seem an easy way to deflect a lot of grief by naming the source - otherwsie we'd have to assume he's making them himself.

maxf said:

Caswellbot said:

For someone who "doesn't need the money" he seems to bang on about profit and making maximum profit alot doesn't he? The guys full of it. I wouldn't trust a word he says.

Click to expand...

That's pretty much where I am. If there was a solid defence, he'd have stated it. Offering to send all of his baggies to UKG is a joke - who is to say he will send everything?

Click to expand...

This is basically my thinking, it would be the equivalent of Toy Toni sending all his Meccano Jawas, Power Droids, IG-88s and Trilogos for grading to prove he isn't a scamming bastard

Right sadly some further shocking discovery's with some of Jeff's baggies (shocker).

Remember the 2 Taiwan R2 baggies with correct figure but fake baggies?? the solid dome R2 never made it beyond the ESB-a baggie & no other Taiwan R2 baggie has ever been found by any collector that I have heard of & likely never will, I have them in hand (big thanks Nick) & have taken detailed close up's of them & as good an image as I can capture of the heat seals to try to find out which seal types are being used on the fakes, my suspensions about the ROTJ-a (also Taiwan) that Jeff has sole many of including on to myself are also 100% fake as the seal is unlike any other ROTJ-a I have (I have many to cross check against).

Now by all accounts the ROTJ-a fett baggie is stupidly rare, I had been after one for 3 years before I saw this one I own listed by Jeff on ebay, since I bought it I know he must have sold a bear minimum of 5 others (high value item again), I have also cross checked with Andy Raymond who is the only guy I know that owns a genuine one & also the multi pack with other baggies it came with, he has confirmed his has the exact same seal type as all his other ROTJ-a baggies, the seal type on a genuine one is slick with tiny tiny vertical lines within the seal every few mm's, unlike both the fake ROTJ-a that have come from Jeff which both have crosshatching, which looks like small squares in the photos, but with the naked eye you can see a little more detail.

Luckily Mark A Baker from jabbas court was here at the time of me getting the baggies from Nick & we both checked them both with the naked eye & a 10 X's eyepiece in good natural daylight & agreed they were identical - see seals below



R2



Fett

Also some side by side photos below as well as full frontal shots to show these are the same ones shown in the close up seal photos





& below the other ESB-h fake again with a Taiwan R2 figure, the baggie does not conform to any other known style of ESB-h baggie, nor does the heat-seal which incidentally is identical to a fake Luke X wing pilot baggie I also got from Jeff





The sheer volume of baggie types that have been tainted is becoming more & more worrying, I am in the process of working on others at the moment, luckily every single one has ways of being distinguished against the genuine article so with luck it can all be documents & eradicate them from the hobby & not affect baggie collecting any more than it already has

Getting all csi Miami I see frank :lol: Looks like it's been done with standard impulse heat sealer, are the seals 2mm frank?

Jeff has sold a lot more than five of those Taiwan fetts, been selling those for years mate

The whole letting ukg look at them is a farce imo

momike said:

Getting all csi Miami I see frank :lol: Looks like it's been done with standard impulse heat sealer, are the seals 2mm frank?

Jeff has sold a lot more than five of those Taiwan fetts, been selling those for years mate

The whole letting ukg look at them is a farce imo

Click to expand...

CSI to your service mike, seals look to be 1.85mm so pretty much 2mm is that important??






sorry the gauge is not over the seal in the bottom photo as bag moved when I was trying to take the picture, but it was measure bang on

It's pretty much 2mm then, impulse heaters are your box standard heat sealers that come with a standard 2mm element