Response to Claims
- Thread starter j10e5f6f6
- Start date
sparkysx said:
If he is guilty it is fraud but its so complex I don't think the police would get involved. Imagine someone trying to understand this who doesn't collect vintage star wars. I still don't fully understand all the differences in these baggies and I am a collector like you guys with a deep interest in this.
Anyone who has a suspected fake I would advise you to move fast when he has offered a refund. Even if possible call down to the guy with your item.
sparkysx said:
Oh it's worthy of the fraud office involvement for sure. As you say, it's the same as copying some jewellery or an antique. try explaining it to the police though - they will hide behind it being a civil matter, which means taking him to court. As it's over £6,000 it will have to go to the high court as it's too big for small claims and to be heard by a magistrate.
All doable, but not cheap and the saying goes 'never sue a man of straw' because a decent claim will bankrupt him, just in costs.
sparkysx said:
Without question there's something going on.
However, take paintings for example, an authenticator of art can issue certificates of authenticity for pieces.
Police then have a professional to whom they can rely on.
In the case of Star Wars figures who might the professional body be? Who can issue a certificate to state a certain piece is exactly what it claims to be?
If TT didn't get prosecuted then what's the likely scenario here?
No offence intended to knowledgeable collectors.
newswseller
Padawan
- Joined
- Apr 15, 2015
- Messages
- 77
Small claims just need to be below £10k
http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/small-claims-court
http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/small-claims-court
Marty _Norfleet
Youngling
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2017
- Messages
- 6
Does anyone have Jeff's contact info? The email I have for him keeps giving me a failure bounce back.
Thank you!
Thank you!
Palifan
Sith Lord
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- Oct 28, 2012
- Messages
- 4,903
Marty _Norfleet said:
Well this doesn't sound good, what, is Jeff not going to give people a refund now?!
Ian
Frunkstar
Grand Master
Well it would be nice to hear of folks getting refunds, to date I have only heard one person saying that have had a refund, though not seen any proof of it, poor Marty who sent the 2 tri fett's back seems to have been blocked by you on emails as all his messages are being bounced back, it has been confirmed your email address is still active & accepting others folks messages,if you have blocked Marty after offering to refund him,may I ask why?
No further word to UKG about taking the remaining 300 baggies in for authentication, or was it 450 or 500 or 650 as that number seems to be going up & down like a yo yo.
Being silent to all the accusations in question is not exactly the best move you can make, you log in every day, sometime multiple times a day yet can not even be bothered to respond let alone confirm refunds are being issued & provide proof of them as well as show the fake ones being returned are then being opened.
Yet you have time to list new items for sale on ebay & deal with those sales??
Just for the record I knew you stopped selling me any quality items a long time ago, not due to me being tight either as I have spent thousands with you in the past & also send multiple thousands in sales to you via others, is it due to you being able to extort a few extra bucks out of other collectors or to avoid detection of further fake examples like the SW-a lando I got off one of your ebay auctions? & what about the tusken you decided to send half way round the world rather than send it to me as you were requested to do, so you were happy to send the buyers other 2 baggie to me as they were genuine, but this one being a clear fake & easy to spot had to not bypass my hands & my eye's - that to me speaks volumes - you do know & don't care!
You say you are an innocent party & never spotted any of these fakes, even the easy to spot ones like the ESB-b fett's, yet you have 10 years on me with collecting baggies - really???, if you are indeed the innocent party in this affair then do the right thing & expose your sources & back them up with some evidence, as without doing so you are sinking your own boat, we don't need to discredit you as you are doing a fine job of doing that on your own.
I also believe 100% that your recent best seller ( Palitoy-k baggies ) are also 100% fake, that baggie type has always been difficult to track down for any figure, yet suddenly you have up to 3 of each figure type available in this baggie - seriously?? funny as in all my years of collecting baggies, I have only got 3 genuine palitoy-k baggies, all of which can be traced directly back to palitoy, none of them are like the ones you have been selling over the last 18 months or so, they do not conform in any of these below listed respects to known confirmed genuine examples -
1. Font - not the same font type & runbs off real easy, funny how none of my other baggie of any type have this issue
2. baggie material - material does not match other known Palitoy-k baggies
3. heat seals - again not a match for known confirmed examples
I know at lest 100 if not 2 or 3 times than number of this single baggie type have been sold by yourself recently, will you be refunding all of these as well? I must admit, you even had me fooled with those at first, but when closely inspected to me personally the differences are obvious compared to the real thing, please reveal the source of these baggies, as every single one of this type traces directly back to yourself & not a single example can be traced back to either palitoy or Kenner, funny how no know other older examples of this particular baggie type has ever been found in all the years others have been collecting - don't you think??
No further word to UKG about taking the remaining 300 baggies in for authentication, or was it 450 or 500 or 650 as that number seems to be going up & down like a yo yo.
Being silent to all the accusations in question is not exactly the best move you can make, you log in every day, sometime multiple times a day yet can not even be bothered to respond let alone confirm refunds are being issued & provide proof of them as well as show the fake ones being returned are then being opened.
Yet you have time to list new items for sale on ebay & deal with those sales??
Just for the record I knew you stopped selling me any quality items a long time ago, not due to me being tight either as I have spent thousands with you in the past & also send multiple thousands in sales to you via others, is it due to you being able to extort a few extra bucks out of other collectors or to avoid detection of further fake examples like the SW-a lando I got off one of your ebay auctions? & what about the tusken you decided to send half way round the world rather than send it to me as you were requested to do, so you were happy to send the buyers other 2 baggie to me as they were genuine, but this one being a clear fake & easy to spot had to not bypass my hands & my eye's - that to me speaks volumes - you do know & don't care!
You say you are an innocent party & never spotted any of these fakes, even the easy to spot ones like the ESB-b fett's, yet you have 10 years on me with collecting baggies - really???, if you are indeed the innocent party in this affair then do the right thing & expose your sources & back them up with some evidence, as without doing so you are sinking your own boat, we don't need to discredit you as you are doing a fine job of doing that on your own.
I also believe 100% that your recent best seller ( Palitoy-k baggies ) are also 100% fake, that baggie type has always been difficult to track down for any figure, yet suddenly you have up to 3 of each figure type available in this baggie - seriously?? funny as in all my years of collecting baggies, I have only got 3 genuine palitoy-k baggies, all of which can be traced directly back to palitoy, none of them are like the ones you have been selling over the last 18 months or so, they do not conform in any of these below listed respects to known confirmed genuine examples -
1. Font - not the same font type & runbs off real easy, funny how none of my other baggie of any type have this issue
2. baggie material - material does not match other known Palitoy-k baggies
3. heat seals - again not a match for known confirmed examples
I know at lest 100 if not 2 or 3 times than number of this single baggie type have been sold by yourself recently, will you be refunding all of these as well? I must admit, you even had me fooled with those at first, but when closely inspected to me personally the differences are obvious compared to the real thing, please reveal the source of these baggies, as every single one of this type traces directly back to yourself & not a single example can be traced back to either palitoy or Kenner, funny how no know other older examples of this particular baggie type has ever been found in all the years others have been collecting - don't you think??
- Joined
- May 13, 2015
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- 2,990
I was Met for just short of 12 years, a Detective for 9 of those and in Specialist Crime (fraud and computer crime in particular) for 4 of those years. As such, please do take the following as gospel (or as close as you'll get here) :lol:
What needs to happen for anything at all to be investigated is for as many people as possible who have fake baggies from this lowlife (and let's face it, he's said and done nothing to prove otherwise) to report their loss to Action Fraud. No point at all in contacting the police. AF is the reporting point for all fraud matters, which this is.
Don't expect anything to happen anytime soon. The first few reports will, most likely, be ignored due to the value. Even 10 years ago individual fraud offences of less than £1,000 weren't investigated at even a local level on my Borough. Nope, not making that up. It's simply a matter of resources. In order for this to be progressed AF will need to pass it to a police force to investigate. If this gets split between forces it's dead in the water. If they are able to link the allegations then the whole lot will be passed to (I think this would still be the case) Glanville's local force to deal with.
IF enough half decent evidence AND value of loss is presented at the point it's passed to the local force it will, most likely, be investigated. It will be some poor DC with a load of other weary crimes on his screen to investigate and, unless he's a SW fan, this will not please him. If neither the value of loss nor half decent evidence is presented at the point of passing to his force it will be "screened out" and written off due to resources/not in the public interest, etc.
So, to achieve maximum chance of success all those ripped off need to get organised. I suggest either a sub forum here that a certain someone doesn't have ready access to or perhaps a FB group (harder to keep the wolf in sheep's clothing out of but likely to get a wider membership). You'll need to have enough common pieces of information in order to report it. It will also enable you to share your separate crime numbers so when I he next guy reports it they can add those to the report in order to link them without problem.
Once you have decided to go ahead and report you will have one of two options: report as a collective or report as individuals. There are pros and cons to both. If doing so collectively, I suggest someone with evidence does so. Frank, mate, you would be ideal for this. You are the man who can. You have the knowledge and evidence. I would suggest you also get UKG's details and co-operation, too. This will help the poor DC have a couple of go-to guys for evidence. With a statement from each of you as well as a long, long talk to help him get his head around why a plastic figure in a plastic bag can be worth anything at all, let alone faking, they'll have enough to have a fighting chance of arresting him and putting in a half decent interview.
The physical evidence is going to be the baggie figures. This will mean giving them up, I'm afraid. You'll get them back(eventually) but they'll be slightly shiny and silver when you do! It does clean off.
TT has never been investigated because I do doubt anyone has even bothered to speak to the Police. And if they have then they've not be able to leap through the invisible hoops mentioned above. The above is not an exhaustive guide but it's a start. It'll be a long and slow process but it's worth doing. Complacency is Glanville's biggest chance of getting away scott free from this. Don't let him.
What needs to happen for anything at all to be investigated is for as many people as possible who have fake baggies from this lowlife (and let's face it, he's said and done nothing to prove otherwise) to report their loss to Action Fraud. No point at all in contacting the police. AF is the reporting point for all fraud matters, which this is.
Don't expect anything to happen anytime soon. The first few reports will, most likely, be ignored due to the value. Even 10 years ago individual fraud offences of less than £1,000 weren't investigated at even a local level on my Borough. Nope, not making that up. It's simply a matter of resources. In order for this to be progressed AF will need to pass it to a police force to investigate. If this gets split between forces it's dead in the water. If they are able to link the allegations then the whole lot will be passed to (I think this would still be the case) Glanville's local force to deal with.
IF enough half decent evidence AND value of loss is presented at the point it's passed to the local force it will, most likely, be investigated. It will be some poor DC with a load of other weary crimes on his screen to investigate and, unless he's a SW fan, this will not please him. If neither the value of loss nor half decent evidence is presented at the point of passing to his force it will be "screened out" and written off due to resources/not in the public interest, etc.
So, to achieve maximum chance of success all those ripped off need to get organised. I suggest either a sub forum here that a certain someone doesn't have ready access to or perhaps a FB group (harder to keep the wolf in sheep's clothing out of but likely to get a wider membership). You'll need to have enough common pieces of information in order to report it. It will also enable you to share your separate crime numbers so when I he next guy reports it they can add those to the report in order to link them without problem.
Once you have decided to go ahead and report you will have one of two options: report as a collective or report as individuals. There are pros and cons to both. If doing so collectively, I suggest someone with evidence does so. Frank, mate, you would be ideal for this. You are the man who can. You have the knowledge and evidence. I would suggest you also get UKG's details and co-operation, too. This will help the poor DC have a couple of go-to guys for evidence. With a statement from each of you as well as a long, long talk to help him get his head around why a plastic figure in a plastic bag can be worth anything at all, let alone faking, they'll have enough to have a fighting chance of arresting him and putting in a half decent interview.
The physical evidence is going to be the baggie figures. This will mean giving them up, I'm afraid. You'll get them back(eventually) but they'll be slightly shiny and silver when you do! It does clean off.
TT has never been investigated because I do doubt anyone has even bothered to speak to the Police. And if they have then they've not be able to leap through the invisible hoops mentioned above. The above is not an exhaustive guide but it's a start. It'll be a long and slow process but it's worth doing. Complacency is Glanville's biggest chance of getting away scott free from this. Don't let him.
spoons
Grand Master
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2006
- Messages
- 8,314
Great advice Simon
A few of us went through AF with Toni figures but it wasn't a co-ordinated effort and Sussex police dropped the case.
If only you were around then!
Hopefully Frank and the others affected will have better luck this time.
A few of us went through AF with Toni figures but it wasn't a co-ordinated effort and Sussex police dropped the case.
If only you were around then!
Hopefully Frank and the others affected will have better luck this time.
Nice post Simon, you have hit the nail on the head. Jeff, Toni and numerous other scammers are already "internet forum villains" but as Toni has proved that has little impact on your ability to trade outside of this small little bubble of collectors. If you want real action, it's up to those of you with the most on the line to step up and do what Simon has suggested. My two baggies worth a grand total of £150 aren't worth reporting, but those of you who have been scammed out of thousands need to co-ordinate. Otherwise this will just blow over as it did for Toni, it's clear Jeff has no intention of making it right or even bothering to post again.
pizzathehutt
Sith Lord
I wonder if the fake baggies will start to become collectable like the Toni's have?
if it was me I'd take action myself and go and give this guy a couple of slaps
if it was me I'd take action myself and go and give this guy a couple of slaps
- Joined
- May 13, 2015
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- 2,990
spoons said:
Any reference numbers or correspondence about that interaction would be greatly appreciated, mate. The TT matter isn't dead for me. Life is getting in the way (consistently) but I have a plan of action.
newswseller
Padawan
- Joined
- Apr 15, 2015
- Messages
- 77
edd_jedi said:
surely this is entirely the wrong attitude to have, if 100 collectors have been conned out of £150 each that's £15k and adds more weight/evidence to a case of maybe 3 collectors totaling £5k.. every little bit helps?
lejackal
Grand Master
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2015
- Messages
- 8,514
At this stage seeing as this is public and Jeff is clearly still logging in would it not be best to take any further details and planning to a private discussion?
