Richard_H
Grand Master
chewbaccadave said:
Deal
Valuation Requests and PM Deals
- Thread starter Richard_H
- Start date
Deal
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I am thinking that if a bidding system is introduced then we will have open competion for items that will lead to even more bad feeling than what this "deal" has caused.
It will also feel like eBay or FB, and I come here to get away from that, so am, in principle against this.
As has alreay been mentioned I don't see the amount of sales to warrant this.
It will also feel like eBay or FB, and I come here to get away from that, so am, in principle against this.
As has alreay been mentioned I don't see the amount of sales to warrant this.
I agree there's no easy solution to this, but on the whole I would be against replicating an eBay type system as it pits forum members against one another in open competition. Unlike eBay however, everyone would know who has bid on what and for how much, and I'm sure there are plenty of members here who would prefer not to broadcast their purchases publicly. It could easily lead to arguments and bad feelings between members, which I hope none of us wants.
I certainly think the current sales forum should remain for sellers who are happy that they know what price to ask for an item, and to (usually - unless there's a good reason not to) sell it to the first member that offers that price.
However, one possibility does come to mind if some sort of bidding system were to be introduced alongside the straight sales forum. That would be a compromise between the defacto current system of first to PM wins (usually), and a fully open bidding system. Such a compromise could perhaps be that if the seller chooses to do so, they could invite PM offers for a certain time (e.g. 3 days), after which they choose who to sell to. That way more than just the first forum member to see a post would have a chance of submitting an offer, the bids would not be public, and the seller could choose which offer to accept.
I have to say, I'm not completely sure if I like or dislike the above proposal myself, as I can see both advantages and disadvantages to it, depending on your point of view. I mention it only because it occurred to me as possibly being a compromise solution, if the majority (and of course Edd) decide that's what they want.
I certainly think the current sales forum should remain for sellers who are happy that they know what price to ask for an item, and to (usually - unless there's a good reason not to) sell it to the first member that offers that price.
However, one possibility does come to mind if some sort of bidding system were to be introduced alongside the straight sales forum. That would be a compromise between the defacto current system of first to PM wins (usually), and a fully open bidding system. Such a compromise could perhaps be that if the seller chooses to do so, they could invite PM offers for a certain time (e.g. 3 days), after which they choose who to sell to. That way more than just the first forum member to see a post would have a chance of submitting an offer, the bids would not be public, and the seller could choose which offer to accept.
I have to say, I'm not completely sure if I like or dislike the above proposal myself, as I can see both advantages and disadvantages to it, depending on your point of view. I mention it only because it occurred to me as possibly being a compromise solution, if the majority (and of course Edd) decide that's what they want.
subzero
Sith Lord
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How about this, once a member has posted a new thread in the 'valuation request' category, the site detects that member has created a thread in that category and automatically blocks incoming PM's in that sellers account for 24hrs, but the seller CAN send messages to others and once the first message has been sent then the block is lifted. So the only way for the seller to make a PM deal is to respond to the first person who posts "PM me" in the 'for sale' thread only, and banning people leaving 'messages of interest' in the valuation request threads.
I don't even know if this is technically possible to implement?? Just brainstorming :?
I don't even know if this is technically possible to implement?? Just brainstorming :?
Richard_H
Grand Master
Or all posts in the Valuation thread are 'held'. An admin reposts them so that the original person can't be pmd.
The original owner can see the valuations
The original owner can see the valuations
Richard_H said:
That method (I think) is used on the timeline FB groups and seems to work well...
Funny thing is, I'm after a SW R5 MoC, but saw your expressed interest and walked away, expecting you to get it. Glad I didn't waste time waiting.
subzero
Sith Lord
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Richard_H said:
That would be much simpler and easier to introduce, not automated but it would be very effective.
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If things are going to change this could work.Richard_H said:
More work for admin though.
SublevelStudios
Sith Lord
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I honestly think what we have ATM is fine. Yes, PM dealing and missing stuff happens, but sometimes it doesn't and you land what you need.
Ultimately it's down to the seller who they sell to.
I feel your pain Rich, I really do, it's happened to me before and sure it will again but that's just part of the game.
Ultimately it's down to the seller who they sell to.
I feel your pain Rich, I really do, it's happened to me before and sure it will again but that's just part of the game.
spoons
Grand Master
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SublevelStudios said:
I'm with Mark on this. Seems a real shame that Rich missed out but I get the impression that mostly things run pretty well here. Any change in system will throw up situations where people miss out for other reasons.
coomber75
Sith Lord
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was a hit the same, actually wanted all three but saw the others had put hat in ring for all apart from wally so threw my hat in for him... as felt fairest option. im on FB and do honestly prefer here, would hate to see this go the other way.
best part is dave said what happened and a collector got cards hes not moving on... woukd have lived them but glad that tgey wont be quick sell fir profit! and SW cards look awesome cingrats dave they look great!
best part is dave said what happened and a collector got cards hes not moving on... woukd have lived them but glad that tgey wont be quick sell fir profit! and SW cards look awesome cingrats dave they look great!
Richard_H
Grand Master
I get all that but then on the flipside what's the point of the valuation thread and who will ever provide valuations?
lejackal
Grand Master
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Less people respond than they used to, probably because they are too busy pm'ing offersRichard_H said:
subzero
Sith Lord
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lejackal said:
True, if someone sees something they want minutes would be wasted valuing and posting the price, they're quickly PM'ing before others do.
Great discussion so far, and glad Richard and Dave are both being amicable over it. I agree it needs discussing, but as others have said nobody has done anything wrong here as there are no valuation rules currently.
Don't worry, neither I or the mods can read your PMs. We could go down the road most Facebook groups have taken and make a rule saying nobody can express interest in valuation threads or make offers before the sales threads, but as above it's impossible to police. Also, another situation - how is it fair if Richard the R5 collector sees the valuation thread first and doesn't declare interest, but then somebody else sees the sales thread first? It basically comes down to luck. So maybe the current system is more fair.
I am happy to add a guideline that people should respect others interest in valuation threads, but I'm not too keen on making a hard and fast rule.
Don't worry, neither I or the mods can read your PMs. We could go down the road most Facebook groups have taken and make a rule saying nobody can express interest in valuation threads or make offers before the sales threads, but as above it's impossible to police. Also, another situation - how is it fair if Richard the R5 collector sees the valuation thread first and doesn't declare interest, but then somebody else sees the sales thread first? It basically comes down to luck. So maybe the current system is more fair.
I am happy to add a guideline that people should respect others interest in valuation threads, but I'm not too keen on making a hard and fast rule.
As for anonymous valuations, it's possible but I personally don't have time to do it. Facebook is easy because you can just message an admin the photos. On here you can't PM attachments, so they would have to be emailed or something. I also think it would discourage the 'wild' posts we sometimes get, which often are rubbish modern stuff but occasionally brilliant. But hey if somebody wants to volunteer to be the valuation guy, it is technically possible 
Richard_H
Grand Master
To answer the sales thread it that's totally fair imo. Nobody has a right to any item. If that post was made in the sales thread then it's anyone's game. Just a concern that many have raised that little seems to get to the sales thread.
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I'm dead against rules, but it's got to a point of frustration with the valuations thread that I think something needs doing. I saw a thread a few months back and the first four responses were "I can't/won't give you a valuation because I'm interested in xyz". Absolutely nothing wrong with that and no criticism intended at all, I've done it myself, but it doesn't help the valuations.
I would be happy to volunteer for posting up supplied photos and valuation requests. I happen to think it's one of the few things some FB groups have got right and in does exactly what it's intended to do. I could set up a generic e-mail address which could be posted as a sticky and filter the spam.
The only thing that then raises it's head is should it be a rule that valuations have to go through the process or a choice? I'm quite sure some folk don't mind being PM'd with offers. Just because it's not transparent doesn't mean it's not fair. I'm all for the seller retaining freedom of choice in who they sell to and a first expression of interest/claim should not mean a following sale automatically. There's problems with both choices:
1) Make it a rule and it needs policing and also flies in the face of one of the major strengths of the forum: No Rules. It also, as Edd says, may put off those stumbling across the forum to post up valuations. That said, they're usually the most vulnerable and open to low-ball offers by lurkers.
2) Make it a choice and anyone posting in there is automatically signalling they are open to PMs and that can end up in a private bidding war. The counter argument to that would be "so what?": If you post there you accept that and if you PM an offer be prepared to enter a bidding war and don't come crying if you lose.
If only to protect the whole point and impartiality/lack of conflict of interest in the valuations thread I would vote for a change. I think it's a valuable service to members and "drop ins" alike. We absolutely don't want to put anyone off using it.
I would be happy to volunteer for posting up supplied photos and valuation requests. I happen to think it's one of the few things some FB groups have got right and in does exactly what it's intended to do. I could set up a generic e-mail address which could be posted as a sticky and filter the spam.
The only thing that then raises it's head is should it be a rule that valuations have to go through the process or a choice? I'm quite sure some folk don't mind being PM'd with offers. Just because it's not transparent doesn't mean it's not fair. I'm all for the seller retaining freedom of choice in who they sell to and a first expression of interest/claim should not mean a following sale automatically. There's problems with both choices:
1) Make it a rule and it needs policing and also flies in the face of one of the major strengths of the forum: No Rules. It also, as Edd says, may put off those stumbling across the forum to post up valuations. That said, they're usually the most vulnerable and open to low-ball offers by lurkers.
2) Make it a choice and anyone posting in there is automatically signalling they are open to PMs and that can end up in a private bidding war. The counter argument to that would be "so what?": If you post there you accept that and if you PM an offer be prepared to enter a bidding war and don't come crying if you lose.
If only to protect the whole point and impartiality/lack of conflict of interest in the valuations thread I would vote for a change. I think it's a valuable service to members and "drop ins" alike. We absolutely don't want to put anyone off using it.
I'm not sure there is an easy solution to this.
Fair play for volunteering to be the valuations photos person, but I suspect there is going to be a **** load of work involved in that and all you will get is grief. "Why aren't my pictures up, I emailed you 2 hours ago" when the email arrived at ten pm on a Sat night or the poster is from the States/Oz. etc etc. We are mainly a UK based forum but we have plenty of overseas members so this could well complicate things, and there are a lot of listings on there.
Our current system isn't perfect, I sympathise with Rich, but I'm not sure any of the suggested improvements don't also come with large drawbacks that would end up being exploited as well. I'm not trying to shoot down this thread, quite the opposite, I just don't know that there is an option that will solve the problem, not create others AND not involve massive amounts of work for someone. Happy to hear what people think though.
And just to confirm what Edd said, we can't read your PM's. Hell us mods don't even know who is PM'ing who. Your PM's are totally private.
Fair play for volunteering to be the valuations photos person, but I suspect there is going to be a **** load of work involved in that and all you will get is grief. "Why aren't my pictures up, I emailed you 2 hours ago" when the email arrived at ten pm on a Sat night or the poster is from the States/Oz. etc etc. We are mainly a UK based forum but we have plenty of overseas members so this could well complicate things, and there are a lot of listings on there.
Our current system isn't perfect, I sympathise with Rich, but I'm not sure any of the suggested improvements don't also come with large drawbacks that would end up being exploited as well. I'm not trying to shoot down this thread, quite the opposite, I just don't know that there is an option that will solve the problem, not create others AND not involve massive amounts of work for someone. Happy to hear what people think though.
And just to confirm what Edd said, we can't read your PM's. Hell us mods don't even know who is PM'ing who. Your PM's are totally private.
