Woolworths Special Buy 8 Star Wars Figures for 99p Pack Research Findings

An incredibly detailed and well-researched piece. Thank you for taking the time to do it and for posting it on the Forum for others to read and benefit from.

An amazingly and obviously painstaking piece of research. This shows a dedication to informing the collecting community about what seemingly without question suspect packets are out there on the market. I'm sure there will be collectors who will question the evidence I hope in a healthy way and those who may now feel agreeved that what maybe a grail piece in their collection may now be a fake - in time when reality has settled in - we can reduce these passing hands within the collecting world.

I was under the assumption repro packaging was piss easy to spot due to the inferior quality?...

Fantastic work, Laurence...ya big sleuthy bastard! :wink: Excellent work, mate. And reassuring that your finds put my 8 pack in a good light.

I remember reading some of the posts on RS about the 8 packs and it seemed a number of our fellow American collectors were quick to claim all "Woolies" 8 packs were fake, with many a mention of the Billy Boy era. As with most things in our collecting world it seems this little nook is not black and white either. Research is key and what you've done here is a massive help to the community.

I wonder whether using the term "Woolies" or "Woolworths" when describing these packs has led to some of the confusion over their legitimacy. I used to be under the impression that the 8 packs were put together by Woolworths themselves, either in store or more centrally, but still within the Woolworths supply chain. What makes more sense is that these were put together by Palitoy and that Woolies may have been the only major retailer to pick these up and sell them. Hence why we collectors often refer to them as "Woolies" 8 packs. Does anyone remember or have evidence of any other retailers selling the 8 packs?

Chris

TK-7785 said:

What makes more sense is that these were put together by Palitoy and that Woolies may have been the only major retailer to pick these up and sell them.

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I think that is the case because Toy Toni has stock of various offer sticker items including bandolier straps and mini rigs. The irony in this research is that some of Toni's legit stock with such stickers has been used to compare against the suspect ones.

edd_jedi said:

TK-7785 said:

What makes more sense is that these were put together by Palitoy and that Woolies may have been the only major retailer to pick these up and sell them.

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I think that is the case because Toy Toni has stock of various offer sticker items including bandolier straps and mini rigs. The irony in this research is that some of Toni's legit stock with such stickers has been used to compare against the suspect ones.

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Ha! That's a big dose of irony right there. :lol:

On a side note, I wonder how many special offer stickers have been removed from various items over the years due to collectors thinking they look ugly. For me they're a really distinctive piece of UK Star Wars toy history. They might not look attractive to those who like their MOCs etc in an offerless, price tagless state (not having a dig at all, each to their own) but they really spark a very particular wave of nostalgia for me. Especially given that Woolies doesn't exist anymore.

Cheers,
Chris

TK-7785 said:

edd_jedi said:

TK-7785 said:

What makes more sense is that these were put together by Palitoy and that Woolies may have been the only major retailer to pick these up and sell them.

Click to expand...

I think that is the case because Toy Toni has stock of various offer sticker items including bandolier straps and mini rigs. The irony in this research is that some of Toni's legit stock with such stickers has been used to compare against the suspect ones.

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Ha! That's a big dose of irony right there. :lol:

On a side note, I wonder how many special offer stickers have been removed from various items over the years due to collectors thinking they look ugly. For me they're a really distinctive piece of UK Star Wars toy history. They might not look attractive to those who like their MOCs etc in an offerless, price tagless state (not having a dig at all, each to their own) but they really spark a very particular wave of nostalgia for me. Especially given that Woolies doesn't exist anymore.

Cheers,
Chris

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Is this a game of Irony up-man-ship?

The dirt line to the glue residue was a comparison which was observed as a by product from comparing how each price sticker reacted when attempting to peel off. It was anticipated that the Palitoy label would as with all "Special Buy" stickers that were factory applied expected to be stuck down with the impossible-to-peel epoxy as noted numerous times with failed attempts at the items removal whether it be a mini rig or a Trilogo card, whilst the Suspect label may peel with greater ease.

The ease in which both stickers peeled off was a similar result but it did lead to the observation of the residue line and colouring to the reverse of the stickers,

Fantastic research and well presented conclusions, nice one Laurence. I'm looking for one of these, it's great to have a reference guide to help avoid the repro's, thanks.

Just awesome, a huge amount of work went into this.

Amazing work and interesting to know they weren't Woolies applied, I always thought they were. Makes sense though as the fonts match the other special offer stickers found on minirig etc.

Only concern is that all this extensive research makes it easier for the next wave of repros to be even closer to a perfect match.

And the winner for "thread of the year'...

Fantastic work Laurence. A great insight into these. I used to have three empty bags with the sticker which were found at the bottom of an Ewok village box. I still have 1 somewhere but god knows where it is. Empty bags are still desirable because you can add your own figures as a display piece.

Dont know if it helps much, but my old Special buy focus has stickers all over:

http://www.starwarsforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=24149&hilit=Special+buy+Buy+fo+Woolworths

Well done again.

Wow, great collection!

That was quite an amazing and informative post my friend.

The amount of investigating and comparisons you have provided is quite something, I am thinking you would be great in a forensics position

I am surprised you have not had many questions relating to this post as of yet, maybe many have just not read it as of yet.

With the suspect packs, have they been traced back to a certain source? have they come from one? I know Bill boy had a few of these and he was a wealth of Palitoy knowledge before he went rogue and made the fake prototype baggies and died several times etc lol. Do these suspect packs trace back to him or someone else? I sure I am not the only person wondering this?

Great job and this post will help a lot of people buying these in the future. I am sure people will scream out when reading it also realising they have suspect packs in their collections but at the same time, the amount of these I have seen pop up in the last few years was worrying too say the least considering I had only seen a handful posted over the last decade or so. The characters that have been popping up in the packs were also showing red flags if you ask me and very questionable at the most so I am glad someone has spent the time going through this and answering many questions that I have been thinking myself with the increase in these Woolies 8 packs hitting the market the last few years.

Very well done Laurence, you should be very proud of yourself for this investigation.

Cheers

Vince

The amount of investigating and comparisons you have provided is quite something, I am thinking you would be great in a forensics position

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I don't think I have a steady enough hand for forensics Vince.

I am surprised you have not had many questions relating to this post as of yet, maybe many have just not read it as of yet.

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In response to your question from your comment regarding having not had many questions relating to this post as of yet, are you referring to collectors asking questions about their packs that may have Suspect packs in their collections.
19 Palitoy packs and 2 Suspect packs were identified from 21 packs located on the main UK sources of the Forum, Vectis & Echo. Maybe this is why questions have not been asked as the UK identified items seem largely unaffected.

With the suspect packs, have they been traced back to a certain source? have they come from one? I know Bill boy had a few of these and he was a wealth of Palitoy knowledge before he went rogue and made the fake prototype baggies and died several times etc lol. Do these suspect packs trace back to him or someone else? I sure I am not the only person wondering this?

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Regarding the source of the packs I will detail the sources identified. I have been conscious of posting this data for several reasons.

One of the reasons for this is that the comparisons from the research have been able to be considered in an unbiased manner. The research seems to have been well received with no collector questioning the comparisons.

Another reason is that the source of a number of the Suspect packs trace back to one source. Unfortunately I have not yet been able to make direct contact with the source in order to establish the source further back and no accusations or allegations are being made but sharing the findings of the research that was documented.

What also needs to be considered is that these packs have been noticed for sale at events such as NEC & LFCC through other vendors as mentioned on the link below.

http://www.starwarsforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=30926&hilit=heads+up+fake+warning

Palitoy font source of origin.

Pack located Date of post Source Pack-status
Vectis 16.12.14 Childhood lot lot 4442 Open
Vectis 15.04.15 Childhood lot lot 262 Open
Vectis 15.04.15 Childhood lot lot 263 Open
Vectis 15.04.15 Childhood lot lot 264 Open
Vectis 15.04.15 Childhood lot lot 265 Open
Vectis 19.05.15 ??? lot 2137 Open
Vectis 25.06.15 Duplicate lot 5090 / lot 262 resubmitted Open
Vectis 28.04.16 n/a lot 4440 Empty x 4
SWFUK 21.09.17 Purchased over 15 years ago Resealed
SWFUK 19.04.12 Found in Nans wardrobe Sealed
SWFUK 19.04.12 Found in Nans wardrobe Sealed
SWFUK 29.03.18 SAS Auction March 18 Open
SWFUK 29.11.17 Ebay several years ago Moc up
SWFUK 02.09.14 Charity shop Sealed
Baggietastic 16.05.16 Duplicate from Vectis Open
Baggietastic 17.10.16 SWFUK Empty bag
Baggietastic 17.10.16 SWFUK Empty bag
Baggietastic 17.10.16 Ebay Empty bag
Baggietastic 17.10.16 Ebay Empty bag
Echobase 05.01.16 childhood open pack
Echobase 05.01.16 Poss childhood as on eBay Empty bag
Echobase 20.01.16 Poss childhood can't remember Emp bag
RS 08.02.08 n/a Billy Boy suspect
RS 04.08.08 n/a Billy Boy suspect
RS 06.03.10 Childhood purchase Open
RS 30.06.10 n/a Billy Boy suspect
RS 23.10.16 Duplicate Empty / Moc up
RS 24.04.12 confirmed 06.18 as childhood purchase Emp bag
Direct Message 07.05.18 Childhood collection Empty bag
Direct Message 05.05.18 EB sale of Empty now Moc Up

Suspect font source of origin.

Pack located Date of post Pack-status
SWFUK LA thread 30.06.15Jeff Glanville Sealed
Baggietastic 19.10.16 NEC or Jeff Glanville Sealed
Baggietastic 19.10.16 NEC or Jeff Glanville Sealed
Baggietastic 13.10.15 (duplicate of the first pack) Sealed
Baggietastic 06.06.15 NEC or Jeff Glanville Sealed
Baggietastic 16.06.15 Anonamous baggie member Sealed
9 Holy Grails 16.10.16 (Duplicate of pack 1 & 3) Sealed
Echobase 20.09.16 Farthest From by a friend Sealed
Laurence Dyer 17.11.15 Jeff Glanville Sealed
Laurence Dyer 16.12.15 Jeff Glanville Sealed
Direct Message 08.05.18 Jeff Glanville Sealed
Laurence Dyer 16.12.15 Jeff Glanville Sealed
Worthpoint 14.10.14 eBay sale Jeff Glanville Sealed
Direct message 08.05.18 Jeff Glanville Sealed

Jeff again. Can't say I'm surprised!

:roll:

Jason

Great work Laurence , I am only getting back into collecting and finding all this out is truly shocking , that 8 pack I had and is listed as fake in your guide was accepted as real years back , I am fxxking gutted here as I loved that piece . Thanks for fxxk all Jeff you crook

There appears to be one more example of a suspect pack.....in plain sight on hi eBay profile

I imagine he has sold a good thew of them in behind the scenes deals on the strength of that image alone.

Do we think Jeff might do the right thing and come on and say where these packs originated from?

slim said:

Great work Laurence , I am only getting back into collecting and finding all this out is truly shocking , that 8 pack I had and is listed as fake in your guide was accepted as real years back , I am fxxking gutted here as I loved that piece . Thanks for fxxk all Jeff you crook

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Lionel, have I stirred the collecting bug back into you buddy after contacting you for the information? If that is the case then at least something good has come from this research.

Your pack was on the list of the Suspect packs three times. The total sample size of Suspects documented is 14 with this pack identified as a duplication twice whilst being observed on collectors limelight posts.

I will point out that packs of Suspect creation have been sold at events that Jeff does not attend by traders. This is a suspect sticker from a seller at LFCC last year.



Prior to my response to Vinny's questions regarding the source I attempted to contact Jeff via Marc H.
I did this in the view of fairness as it has always been a major consideration whilst gathering the data from the reaction of Jeff not having notice when the Baggie post was released.

Marc H was about to commence work and agreed to let Jeff know by text which I suggested I would give Jeff at least a couple of hours notice before I posted the data.
Marc did say that he had briefly discussed the research with Jeff and that Jeff would be willing to work we me to ascertain the origins of the packs he has had for sale.

Jeff and I have missed several calls and we have sent a couple of text messages today due to us both missing each other whilst at work.
Hopefully Jeff can potentially provide the origins of these packs and we can eliminate further examples being created in the future.

lejackal said:

There appears to be one more example of a suspect pack.....in plain sight on hi eBay profile

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Yes there is indeed.

It might appear like I have missed a blatantly obvious item to include for documentation.

The catalyst for the research started due to a pack that was too good to be true in my opinion. This pack had been the topic of conversation on a limelight post that was made on the Baggietastic Facebook Group due to the volume of last 17 figure content.
I have also had brief discussions during the last few years with like minded collectors that the quantity of loose figure packs seemed unusually high with agreement from them.

The Suspect Woolies packs had been discussed before the Baggie Investigation had started or was even considered.

Whilst searching for each item and documenting each different style of pack I also traced each pack back as you can see above regardless of what designation that pack was. This I believe is what has lead Lionel / Slim back home.

To clarify, the research was spawned from an individual pack and not that of deciding to target Jeff by an item that he now seems to have traded frequently, hence why this pack was not observed as it was not a source of supply that was initially thought of.

That all said, I probably should have gone and delved into his eBay profile but there were that many comparisons being made, literally on a daily basis that this was not thought of.

momike said:

I imagine he has sold a good thew of them in behind the scenes deals on the strength of that image alone.

Do we think Jeff might do the right thing and come on and say where these packs originated from?

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From the data recorded the sales of these packs does lend itself to that of direct sales.

Only one Suspect pack was observed for sale on any platform sourced from an eBay past sale through Worthpoint on 14.10.2014. This is the earliest Suspect pack that has been identified for sale.



I personally bought two packs in the past from Jeff directly during our communications. The desire created to have an opportunity to buy something so special and rare made the purchases a must to add to the collection. I can confirm the sales of my two were behind the scenes.





The volume of Suspect packs out in the community is significantly greater than the documented size suggests. How many are actually out there, I have no idea?

When the research started the collector with the largest sample size of the packs did not share the same opinions as I did hence why his collection had been omitted from the sample. I had previously been conscious not to use or share any of his images however this image will help demonstrate the potential volume that could be out in the community.

As you will observe 1 Palitoy pack out of a display of 28

laurencedyer said:

As you will observe 1 Palitoy pack out of a display of 28

Group shot 15.12.17.jpg

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Worrying to see so many suspect packs have been graded