The Mega Rare Palitoys...

emperorburns said:

I have only seen the ones mentioned.han.chewy.leia.dsc.ben and lxw since i started collecting sw again in 1990.but as a kid i saw luke on 30bk and he had brown hair.this couldnt have been a repack as no brown hair lukes came on 12bks.we know palitoy definatly took unsold stock back for at least woolworths.but we only know for sure palitoy took woolworths unsold/damaged stock.but that was only for the 99p 8pks.they didnt recard those.so was it a cost saving excersise by palitoy/woolworths.or was this their only way of taking unsold stock back as woolworths was their number one customer? Palitoy might not have been able to buy that many first 12 figures from hong kong then..the factorys were probably focusing on the newer esb figuers than the old ones from the last movie..either way most first 20 are hard to find on esb cards.with even the most common ones han and ben being still not that common and chewy and dsc being known in just a couple of examples then its not that suprising others havent been found at all.
Daren

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Wow brown hair Luke original on 30 back. I wonder what colour hair the example "StarZone" has seen?

In an effort to keep Ian interested :lol: here is part of the 1982 catalogue. This is the one with the most info as far as I can remember, the others don't show the actual figures in each assortment at all. It shows the mix per assortment anyway but without knowing the various quantities of boxes sold it's not that helpful, as we still don't know whether they pushed out more of different assortments or what cards they were on (although those from this catalogue would be 45a assuming they didn't mix up cards in the boxes) ...



On the earlier pic its interesting that the Yoda is a Kenner and over the years I've seen a good few ESB Kenner cards with UK price stickers. Yoda is rare on any Palitoy ESB card so I wonder whether Palitoy shipped in Kenner cards for some reason? Perhaps a production problem with his accessories? When you look at them all - orange snake, brown stick, fabric cloak, they're all quite different to the standard ESB fare of plastic capes and dark blasters (Ugnaught is also different). As he's such an integral character to Empire it's possible they had such demand for him they just did whatever they could to get him in the shelves?? Without him, it would be like issuing 12 backs with no Luke or Vader.

More Friday afternoon speculation that we'll never know the answer to

Amazing! That's why Dengar is so tough - the only assortment which could include him (figure 14) is Assortment 1, which 'excludes Dengar'.

Digging into it a bit more...

Assortment 1 - 19 figures could be sent, at least 12 different figures in each pack of 60. This is the 41 back wave of figures (ie 30 backs less Fett).

Retailers would have ordered a decent number of these cases - figures would have only been 1 or 2 waves old. Still current film figures. Consequently lots around today. Dengar is specifically excluded, hence is very tough today.


Assortment 2 - 19 figures could be sent, at least 12 different figures in each pack of 60. This was the first 20 back figures.

This assortment was the 20bk figures, plus Fett. R2-D2 and C-3PO are excluded as they were discontinued on the 45a cards. Fewer retailers would have ordered this assortment, probably the least popular of the 3. The figures which could have arrived were maybe still pegwarmers (cantina aliens) or were just now older and less sought after by kids. These figures are all tough today on 45a cards.


Assortment 3 - 8 figures could be sent, at least 5 different figures in each pack of 60. This was the 45 back wave of figures.

These are the 'new' figures so would have been ordered by retailers in decent quantities IMO. Of the 8, C3PO is much rarer than the others, so you could conclude this was short packed. CCP and Luke Hoth are also tough, so you could assume that the other 5 were the ones most often included as the 5 different figures.

maxf said:

Amazing! That's why Dengar is so tough - the only assortment which could include him (figure 14) is Assortment 1, which 'excludes Dengar'.

Digging into it a bit more...

Assortment 1 - 19 figures could be sent, at least 12 different figures in each pack of 60. This is the 41 back wave of figures (ie 30 backs less Fett).

Retailers would have ordered a decent number of these cases - figures would have only been 1 or 2 waves old. Still current film figures. Consequently lots around today. Dengar is specifically excluded, hence is very tough today.

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Apologies if this is stating the bleeding obvious , but I had always assumed that since Dengar was a (and I believe in fact actually the very first - although someone will doubtless correct me if I'm wrong :lol Palitoy mail-away figure, they didn't card him with the rest of his wave (or at the very least, not initially), as they wanted kids to buy enough other figures to trash their backing cards cutting out the name plates and send away for him, rather than just plucking him off the shelves with the rest of the figures. I certainly sent away for him and was incredibly excited when he arrived in his little white mailer box! That's surely the real reason behind his rarity (and possible absence?) on the 41 back cards?

For what it's worth, as a kid at the time I certainly don't remember ever seeing Dengar carded on an Empire card, 41 back or otherwise, but that doesn't prove anything!... After all, I owned an orange snake Yoda as a child and never even realised they had made a brown one until years later!

Dont forget popularity will skew what's left today and what might have been packed. It's clear Black Bespin Guard and AT-AT commander were not particularly popular along with Lobot and Ugnaught on 41 back. I've also come across lots of 41 back Yodas over the years which could explain why these cards weren't printed.

It would be funny to think certain cards weren't printed purely because someone in the design office ****ed up or forgot after having a few too many beers at lunch time! There's us lot looking far too deep into it! :lol:

Apologies if this is stating the bleeding obvious , but I had always assumed that since Dengar was a (and I believe in fact actually the very first - although someone will doubtless correct me if I'm wrong :lol Palitoy mail-away figure, they didn't card him with the rest of his wave (or at the very least, not initially), as they wanted kids to buy enough other figures to trash their backing cards cutting out the name plates and send away for him, rather than just plucking him off the shelves with the rest of the figures.

The way I always remember it was Boba Fett being the first mail away figure and then Dengar, pretty sure that's how I received them and it would make sense that they maybe didn't release as many Boba Fett and Dengar figures carded in the early waves.

Ian

Palifan said:

Apologies if this is stating the bleeding obvious , but I had always assumed that since Dengar was a (and I believe in fact actually the very first - although someone will doubtless correct me if I'm wrong :lol Palitoy mail-away figure, they didn't card him with the rest of his wave (or at the very least, not initially), as they wanted kids to buy enough other figures to trash their backing cards cutting out the name plates and send away for him, rather than just plucking him off the shelves with the rest of the figures.

The way I always remember it was Boba Fett being the first mail away figure and then Dengar, pretty sure that's how I received them and it would make sense that they maybe didn't release as many Boba Fett and Dengar figures carded in the early waves.

Ian

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Ian, you may very well be correct. Obviously Fett was a mail-away in America long before Dengar, and was also loudly trumpeted all over the cards as we all know, so I dare say you might well be correct about the UK as well. I was 8 in 1980, so I can hardly claim to have had an exhaustive knowledge of Kenner or Palitoy's figure release orders . However, I do know that Dengar was the first mail-away figure that I received here in the UK, and I had to wait fecking ages to finally get a (Kenner) carded Fett from Stevenage market. But as I say, I am quite happy to accept that there may well have been a Fett mail-away promotion in the UK which predates the Dengar one, and about which the childhood me was blissfully unaware... And if so, now I feel like I've missed out! :shock: :lol:

Possible Fett mail-away omissions aside however, my point about the most likely reason for Dengar being so scarce on 41 backs still stands, unless someone else can shoot it down! :wink:

Snaketibe said:

Palifan said:

Apologies if this is stating the bleeding obvious , but I had always assumed that since Dengar was a (and I believe in fact actually the very first - although someone will doubtless correct me if I'm wrong :lol Palitoy mail-away figure, they didn't card him with the rest of his wave (or at the very least, not initially), as they wanted kids to buy enough other figures to trash their backing cards cutting out the name plates and send away for him, rather than just plucking him off the shelves with the rest of the figures.

The way I always remember it was Boba Fett being the first mail away figure and then Dengar, pretty sure that's how I received them and it would make sense that they maybe didn't release as many Boba Fett and Dengar figures carded in the early waves.

Ian

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Ian, you may very well be correct. Obviously Fett was a mail-away in America long before Dengar, and was also loudly trumpeted all over the cards as we all know, so I dare say you might well be correct about the UK as well. I was 8 in 1980, so I can hardly claim to have had an exhaustive knowledge of Kenner or Palitoy's figure release orders . However, I do know that Dengar was the first mail-away figure that I received here in the UK, and I had to wait fecking ages to finally get a (Kenner) carded Fett from Stevenage market. But as I say, I am quite happy to accept that there may well have been a Fett mail-away promotion in the UK which predates the Dengar one, and about which the childhood me was blissfully unaware... And if so, now I feel like I've missed out! :shock: :lol:

Possible Fett mail-away omissions aside however, my point about the most likely reason for Dengar being so scarce on 41 backs still stands, unless someone else can shoot it down! :wink:

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You may well be right about Denar being in such short supply, it definitely makes sense and I was 9 in 1980 so we seem to be from the same era.

I sent off for my Boba Fett and remember receiving it in the UK around the time ESB was released. I also remember waiting ages for it to arrive and it turned up the day my family took us on our summer holidays somewhere in England. I remember this as it was the only ESB figure I can remember having and was so excited to get it and then can quite clearly remember going into a shop on holiday and seeing some 30 backs for the first time. I really remember seeing Han Hoth and was bought that one but can't remember if I'd already seen ESB at that point (think I had though as some kid ruined the Vader ' I am your father' bit at school before I watched it :evil . I also sent off for the Dengar so it would be good if anyone on here can also remember receiving these two in the UK and which one came first, we all know how childhood memory time lines can get slightly mixed up at times.

As I said this is how I remember it but maybe I'm mistaken?

Ian

This is the 1980 Palitoy Fett mailer offer.

The smaller one was the one I had and used to send away for mine, I may even still have that add somewhere as my local toyshop at the time had a stack of them on the counter (as well as the catalog that you got in the Palitoy death star that I grabbed a few of). They must have had the Dengar one as well at some point as I remember seeing it although may well have cut mine out from 2000AD or Warlord comic at the time.

Ian

Slightly off track.

80's'_collector Ian, as someone who's been around a long time :wink: I was wondering if you recognise the sticker on the C-3P0 cardback below. This card was mine from being a kid and always wondered what it was. I have seen a few carded examples, but only of C-3PO with the same sticker and we have speculated in the past without anyone really knowing. An auction house has one coming up for sale and they state it is a wholesalers sticker, which I'd never thought about before. Do you think this is possible? How would they end up with the wholesalers? Was C-3PO a particularly bad seller in comparison to the other 12 backs?

Andy - Ive seen these before and also the xxx/xxxx numbers. I think the latter is from Argos, could your be from Freemans or Index?

I remember buying it from a shop with my mum, but can't remember if it was a toy shop or not. It could have been ex catalogue stock I suppose. You're right the last time we raised this issue we pretty much eliminated Argos as around that time they were using similar codes to what they use today.

Palifan said:

Snaketibe said:

Palifan said:

Apologies if this is stating the bleeding obvious , but I had always assumed that since Dengar was a (and I believe in fact actually the very first - although someone will doubtless correct me if I'm wrong :lol Palitoy mail-away figure, they didn't card him with the rest of his wave (or at the very least, not initially), as they wanted kids to buy enough other figures to trash their backing cards cutting out the name plates and send away for him, rather than just plucking him off the shelves with the rest of the figures.

The way I always remember it was Boba Fett being the first mail away figure and then Dengar, pretty sure that's how I received them and it would make sense that they maybe didn't release as many Boba Fett and Dengar figures carded in the early waves.

Ian

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Ian, you may very well be correct. Obviously Fett was a mail-away in America long before Dengar, and was also loudly trumpeted all over the cards as we all know, so I dare say you might well be correct about the UK as well. I was 8 in 1980, so I can hardly claim to have had an exhaustive knowledge of Kenner or Palitoy's figure release orders . However, I do know that Dengar was the first mail-away figure that I received here in the UK, and I had to wait fecking ages to finally get a (Kenner) carded Fett from Stevenage market. But as I say, I am quite happy to accept that there may well have been a Fett mail-away promotion in the UK which predates the Dengar one, and about which the childhood me was blissfully unaware... And if so, now I feel like I've missed out! :shock: :lol:

Possible Fett mail-away omissions aside however, my point about the most likely reason for Dengar being so scarce on 41 backs still stands, unless someone else can shoot it down! :wink:

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You may well be right about Denar being in such short supply, it definitely makes sense and I was 9 in 1980 so we seem to be from the same era.

I sent off for my Boba Fett and remember receiving it in the UK around the time ESB was released. I also remember waiting ages for it to arrive and it turned up the day my family took us on our summer holidays somewhere in England. I remember this as it was the only ESB figure I can remember having and was so excited to get it and then can quite clearly remember going into a shop on holiday and seeing some 30 backs for the first time. I really remember seeing Han Hoth and was bought that one but can't remember if I'd already seen ESB at that point (think I had though as some kid ruined the Vader ' I am your father' bit at school before I watched it :evil . I also sent off for the Dengar so it would be good if anyone on here can also remember receiving these two in the UK and which one came first, we all know how childhood memory time lines can get slightly mixed up at times.

As I said this is how I remember it but maybe I'm mistaken?

Ian

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Andyclarke said:

This is the 1980 Palitoy Fett mailer offer.

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Thanks both of you for your replies and extra info. Clearly this was a UK offer that passed me by!... And now I really DO feel like I missed out! . Clearly also therefore, the Fett mail-away offer in the UK does indeed predate the Dengar one, so many thanks indeed for increasing my Star Wars knowledge. I appreciate it, and I genuinely mean that . I can only assume that because the Fett offer (again, to my knowledge!) never made it onto any of the Palitoy cards, and certainly none of the ones I ever owned, I never knew anything about it. I was never into comics as a child and so wouldn't have seen the print ad there, and my local toy shop never offered me the flyer, since I definitely would have sent away for Mr Fett if I'd known about him!

Anyway, the scarcity of Dengar and Fett on their earliest actual or theoretical debut cards becomes clear. I now have to wonder what the issue was with Yoda (unless he also had a mail-away offer that passed me by!)? As jedisearcher observed in his excellent post above, perhaps there were production problems of some kind, as it seems very odd that Palitoy would think Yoda wouldn't be a popular character and hence deliberately chose to under-produce or short-pack him. Yoda was always one of my favourite figures as a kid because he had so many cool accessories (even if I did slightly disapprove of the orange snake, since I never saw one of those in the film and certainly not around his neck )

Oh, and if it makes you feel any better Ian, some of my friends ruined the 'I am your father' moment for me as well... little bastards! Fortunately, I didn't fully believe them, so I went to see Empire not completely sure about it!

When I was little I always preferred the larger sized figures (apart from R2) as I always felt they were better value for money! Never bothered with a Jawa, Ugnaught, Yoda or Ewoks

I never collected 12" (then or now), but I did like the likenesses of Mark, Harrison, Carrie and Alec. Those were terrific head sculpts and have scarcely been bettered at an equivalent price point since!

Snaketibe said:

I never collected 12" (then or now), but I did like the likenesses of Mark, Harrison, Carrie and Alec. Those were terrific head sculpts and have scarcely been bettered at an equivalent price point since!

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Sorry, I meant larger 3 3/4" figures within the same line. :lol: Never had the 12" figures, I always preferred a large battlefield.

Andyclarke said:

Slightly off track.

80's'_collector Ian, as someone who's been around a long time :wink: I was wondering if you recognise the sticker on the C-3P0 cardback below. This card was mine from being a kid and always wondered what it was. I have seen a few carded examples, but only of C-3PO with the same sticker and we have speculated in the past without anyone really knowing. An auction house has one coming up for sale and they state it is a wholesalers sticker, which I'd never thought about before. Do you think this is possible? How would they end up with the wholesalers? Was C-3PO a particularly bad seller in comparison to the other 12 backs?

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Andy, I've seen these sort of stickers before but not on sw cards....I'm not 100% sure but I don't think it's a wholesalers sticker as wholesalers used codes on outer boxes or an idependant wholesaler would use a pricing gun.
It's deffo not index though as index weren't a clearance company, they were an off shoot of littlewoods and they didn't start until the mid 1980s or even a bit later.

Ive seen a lot of these stickers on corgi products and I'm not 100% certain but that code has something to do with importing and exporting in the USA or Canada which could ring true on corgi lines but with it been a palitoy item I'm really not certain.

After all stuff was manoeuvred all over the world and still is with clearance or even new lines so who knows really.

Not sure if c3po was a mega seller I would have thought he was though.

jedisearcher said:

In an effort to keep Ian interested :lol: here is part of the 1982 catalogue. This is the one with the most info as far as I can remember, the others don't show the actual figures in each assortment at all. It shows the mix per assortment anyway but without knowing the various quantities of boxes sold it's not that helpful, as we still don't know whether they pushed out more of different assortments or what cards they were on (although those from this catalogue would be 45a assuming they didn't mix up cards in the boxes) ...

On the earlier pic its interesting that the Yoda is a Kenner and over the years I've seen a good few ESB Kenner cards with UK price stickers. Yoda is rare on any Palitoy ESB card so I wonder whether Palitoy shipped in Kenner cards for some reason? Perhaps a production problem with his accessories? When you look at them all - orange snake, brown stick, fabric cloak, they're all quite different to the standard ESB fare of plastic capes and dark blasters (Ugnaught is also different). As he's such an integral character to Empire it's possible they had such demand for him they just did whatever they could to get him in the shelves?? Without him, it would be like issuing 12 backs with no Luke or Vader.

More Friday afternoon speculation that we'll never know the answer to

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Actually chris I'm getting more historical in my old age and since sw has been a huge part of my life I do see you guys sides and interests now.

It's pretty technical some of it though and deffo many theories to ponder over. Lol

I'm going to keep a note of these case code numbers though and see if I can help out.

Snaketibe said:

I never collected 12" (then or now), but I did like the likenesses of Mark, Harrison, Carrie and Alec. Those were terrific head sculpts and have scarcely been bettered at an equivalent price point since!

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I totally agree with the head sculpts, Alec Guinness really looked as good as any hot toys or dragon sculptor could put on the market today.