The Acolyte 4th June, 2024

Agreed.

Lucas used allegory and myth that rewards deeper personal reflection and invites questions. Just incredible work that rewards you as you gain more life experience.

Disney preaches. It's prescriptive.
 
And maybe this is the problem - most of the Internet is wasting it's time arguing about this sort of thing in relation to a SW show - what they are not doing is taking about how great the Show itself was - certainly not insulation to the other stuff.

If you make an amazing show, which amazing characters, story, acting, directing etc. then whatever 'message' is hidden within it becomes organic and natural to the narrative and people don't even notice.

Make better shows...
I agree with you. This show had potential to be epic, but I think lot of the delivery missed the target (although there were some great moments). For me, the problem was the script, the lack of depth in the character development etc, which needed longer, more complex episodes. The bare bones of the story, set in a fresh era, were strong and a lot of the production design was fantastic. IMHO it absolutely didn't fail because of some 'Disney agenda'. It seems we live in a sad time where conspiracy theories are now a way of life, most built on hyperbolic hearsay, non-truths and spun half-truths. We see it in everything, from Star Wars to whooping cough, from Marvel to Covid denial, stolen elections to football etc etc. It just breeds division and toxicity. Don't believe everything you read!

We all adore SW, predominantly for the insane nostalgia the amazing OT bring us. You can't beat it. Unfortunately, it's a double-edged sword, as it makes us hyper-critical of anything new. If someone asks me if I enjoyed TBBBF I tend to say 'Not really', but when I think of it, it was only a couple of moments (which I hated) across the whole series that is making me say that. I actually thoroughly enjoyed the rest of it. I think the closest we've got to 'an amazing show...' that ticks all those boxes you mentioned are the first two seasons of The Mandalorian and then Andor. Even then, there was still toxicity from certain quarters. I actually don't think it's possible to satisfy this fanbase fully.

To sum it all up, I just cannot get on with the conspiracy theories. Fairplay if there's legitimate beef (I guess one person's legitimate beef is different to another's a lot of the time, which probably means a lot of people will never see eye to eye), but believing and in turn peddling made up nonsense from the likes of that imbecile Mike Zeroh, Geeks & Gamers etc isn't the way forward. They know what will get clicks and clicks = $ = Grifters, making a living out of stoking toxicity and hate. The World already has enough of this, without fueling it about a film franchise.
 
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Sadly, Disney has lost its way when it comes to making stories with broad appeal. Whether it be Lucasfilm productions, Marvel, Pixar, Disney Animation or live action, they've all suffered horrendously at the box office and in viewership over the past few years, with very few exceptions. You could argue that green shoots of recovery are starting to appear with 'Inside Out 2' doing well after a string of Pixar flops, and also 'Deadpool and Wolverine' set to finally give Marvel another smash hit after phases 4 and 5 proved to be box office disasters (and please remember that whilst the box-office returns of films like 'Ant-Man and the Wasp Quantumania' might look good at $476 million, that actually represents a gigantic loss for Disney who only get half of that box-office back on a film which cost over $300 million), however they have yet to prove that they have really learned anything. Both 'Inside Out 2' and 'Deadpool and Wolverine' were greenlit under Bob Chapek's brief tenure as CEO of Disney, before Bob Iger gave him the boot to return and work his own 'magic' once again, so very few Bob Iger greenlit projects have made much money in recent years. Black Panther 2 may just about have scraped into profit (but if so, not by much), so it's only really James Gunn's Guardians of the Galaxy 3 that proved to be an unambiguous hit in Marvel's phases 4 and 5 (you can't count Spider-Man No Way Home, since Sony control that, and unlike Disney, actually seem to want to make money from popular films that simply entertain and don't try to push an agenda or message).

Regarding Lucasfilm projects specifically, however much you may personally like or dislike 'The Acolyte', 'Ahsoka', 'Obi-Wan Kenobi', 'The Book of Boba Fett', 'The Last Jedi', etc., there's no denying that Disney has driven away a huge proportion of the Star Wars audience they inherited from George. At the very least, that's incompetence on a $4 billion scale (considering that was the sum they paid for it, and they certainly have not yet recouped anywhere near all of that yet; far, far from it! TFA and Rogue One made money. TLJ probably also made money, but also broke the fandom and crucially also killed the cash cow of Star Wars toy sales dead. Solo lost money, as did TROS (since it had a reported final production budget in the region of $500 million!). Galaxy's Edge has been an expensive underwhelming and under-performing mess, the Galactic Starcruiser hotel lost hundreds of millions and has now closed. All of the Disney Plus shows have cost ~$200 million plus per series (with The Acolyte's official budget of $180 million likely to be proven to be nearer $300 million once the receipts get published, which they will be since it was made in this country, and Disney can't lie about it), the Willow series was so costly and disasterous Disney removed it from Disney Plus as a tax write-down and will never show it again, and Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny was an unmitigated disaster costing Disney at least $200 million, and again, will probably eventually also be revealed to be closer to $300 million. To repeat, incompetence on a $4 billion scale!

Marvel *might* possibly be learning their lesson (although that remains to be seen with their post 'Deadpool' projects, with Captain America 4's budget ballooning to a reported $400 million before marketing!), but Lucasfilm certainly hasn't! Under Kathleen Kennedy's 'leadership' Star Wars has become a dead brand. They've destroyed canon, not just by discarding the hugely popular EU, but also by the arrogance and or yet more incompetence by the decision makers and story writers. They've insulted and lied about the fans, calling anyone who dislikes their divisive and uninspired output 'ists' and 'phobes', when nothing could be farther from the truth. They continue to pump out content with zero broad appeal, that costs the earth to make, and which very few people are watching. The opening 2 episodes of The Acolyte were viewed by 3% of Disney Plus viewers, which is terrible, and which is beaten on the low-viewership front only by 'Andor'. And the rumours are that The Acolyte's viewership may have dropped by as much as a staggering 90% from that poor starting point, by the end of the show's run. Again, you personally may have loved The Acolyte, but most Star Wars fans didn't even bother to watch it, and I don't blame them.

George Lucas didn't feel the need to deliberately exclude or vilify anyone from his films' potential audience. He didn't feel the need to push any sort of political or social messaging or do anything to divide or deliberately drive away or insult fans. Quite the opposite; he embraced his fans, giving them feel-good stories that at their heart were tales of good versus evil, where good ultimately triumphs. There was no ambiguity or rationalisation, no blurring of the lines or moral relativism. It wasn't meant to represent the real world that we actually live in, but rather was escapist fantasy entertainment nominally made for children, but which in truth everyone could enjoy.

If Star Wars is to have a future, Disney needs to return to George's vision and attitudes very quickly indeed, or there will be nothing left to save.
 
Change in society and the perceptions of people is inevitable, for me it's all very confusing and hard to wrap your head around, therefore I don't wrap my head around it. "woke" " I identify as" etc etc is fine for those that want that, and I won't argue against it ..things are what they are, im me and I'm happy with that.

I actually enjoyed The Acolyte as a SW watch, enjoyed the series and will watch a 2nd series if it's made. Everybody has a right to their own opinion which I respect, but others opinions don't sway me, as I would not expect my opinions to sway anyone else.
 
Absolutely. Like what you like. Thats never in question. But change in society and perceptions are irrelevant as the point of Star Wars is universal truths based on culture are stories that are timeless. Its a projection of us as humans.

There are reoccurring themes with our nature that is represented in the stories we tell that touch us no matter where we live. Originally conceived by Carl Jung and then pioneered by Joseph Campbells 'Hero with a Thousand Faces'. The human monomyth. Its these universal truths that made Star Wars a global and generational success and made it timeless. It was a story of human unity.

So from 1977-2012 Star Wars was:

Culturally, socially and politically universal (Unless you lived in autocracy)

It was based on WARS so was primarily masculine with masculine tropes such as guns, cowboys, wizards, engineering, speed etc

Its philosophy was based on Good vs Evil

It had diversity

It was mythical storytelling.

I could go on and on, but lets just use these examples.

From 2013 to now Star Wars:

Culturally, socially and politically tuned to more radical ideas of deconstructing western society and masculinity. Especially regarding a lack of gratitude to what came before.

Its is feminine. Kennedy prides diversity by making 8 out 10 of her executive branch women. The Sequel trilogy is based on a girl, Rogue One is based on a girl, Battlefont is based on a girl, Outlaws is based on a girl, Mandolorian is segwaying to a girl, Kenobi was sideline and the story was about 2 girls, Acolyte is about 2 girls, Ahsoka is based on a group of girls. This perhaps could be fine, but all portrayal of girls is that they are awesome. They have no struggles. They all the most amazing bad ass girl bosses the galaxy has ever seen. Why, according to what they are projecting- girls are awesome. Don't expect to see any books or guides on the blueprints or weapons of the acolyte.

The philosophy is now moral relativism. Kylo redemption, Reva redemption, Mae redemption. Is Luke Skywalker really a hero? Are the Jedi good people?

The diversity is performative. Lucasfilm walks into a room and sees skin tones and sexual prefrences. What happened to just seeing people? They are 'diverse' only to demonstrate how righteous they are. Its gross narcissism masquerading a virtuosity. Look how awesome I am, i have a black friend and a pride flag. I'm literally the most virtuous thing ever. Sorry, but its gross as Shell Petroleum painted environmentally green. If they backed this up with their company ethics, i could get on board, but there actions prove otherwise. Mulan was filmed next to 10 interment camps in China's Xinijang Provence. Finn was scaled down on The Force Awakens poster in China because he is black. Its performative diversity. Its not real. narcissism at its worse. Lucas gave us not only human diversity, but zoological diversity just my countering it to the homogeneous of imperialism.

Mythical storytelling has been replaced by preachy properganda that is prescriptive. Lucas uses archetypes to tell a story, the audience does the rest. You see the characteristics of Lando, Anakin, Padme or what Imperial is and that will evolve as you grow and gain life experience. What is revolution and why does it happen etc. Disney just tells you- Animal Cruelty is bad, war profiteering is bad etc.

This is just the tip of the iceberg.

I knew in the opening 2 minutes of Star Wars, what the Imperials were, what the rebels were and their motivations. 6 plus hours of Disney and I have no idea what the First Order is, what it wants and why Kylo Ren killed his dad. I have no idea why Rey watched patricide and went to start a bromance with Kylo..... on and on.

So yeah, absolutely like what you like. But this aint Star Wars and i think the tanking returns and viewership and the pegwarming merchandise proves it. The Lucas stuff still sells though. Nearly 50 years later.

So, this is not conspiracy theories or influenced by Youtubers who masturbate to the decline of Star Wars for profit. This is a hardcore and passionate fan who is really ****ing angry that what has influenced me and given me so much joy has been taken over by incompetent, talentless, narcissistic sycophants who ride on the coattails of true geniuses and artists..

Didn't mind Solo. Really liked Mando season 1 and 2.

Loved Rogue One, Jedi Fallen Order, Jedi Survivor and adore Andor.

And thank you Disney. The Prequels are now something that gives me happiness. Guess, despite the flaws it does contain the ingredients that are Star Wars 1977-2012.
 
There has always been divisions in fandom regarding story, lore, characters, SFX since the Original Trilogy and especially since the Special Editions, Lucas's intent was never to split the fanbase.

Under Kennedy there is an agenda to make divisive content. It all feels very cynical and bitter. A payback for all the hate she received from the copy and paste sequels? I don't know, but now leaks are that Skeleton Crew is in trouble. Like @Snaketibe stated above., how many more failings, discarded projects and fired creators do we have to suffer before shareholders get the message?

EDIT- Boba Fett was also sidelined by a girl boss
 
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Binge watched season 3 of Picard.

Not a big Star Trek fan, but definitely appreciate it. Watched the Next Generation on Sky One back in the day as it led into The Simpsons. Probably watched all of it.

Season 1 of Picard is a great example of Disney Star Wars.

Season 3 of Picard is a great example of nostalgic storytelling with new components that respect what went before. Thought it was shockingly good. A fantastic send off to The Next Generation.

If you liked The Next Generation, i would recommend it and use as an example of what I would recommend Disney Star Wars could be like.
 
Plus the house he was born in could potentially be bought for less than a rocket Fett in the future
 
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