Fake hardcopy prototypes discovered.

[tiefighterboy]

I used to make fakes...I do not any longer and have not made said copies in quite a long amount of time. As far as Bill taking abuse I think he had it coming, but because he is "Respected" in the hobby he can obviously say what he wants(Even if taken the wrong way) and get the backing of his supporters (Sounds like RS). I do actually now feel that Bill has clarified himself and actually has come across as a stand-up guy, but make no mistake that it is not correct of people to defend someone who may have said something wrong, as I defended Han early on and I take every bit of it back. I no longer make copies of known prototypes and I feel if I wanted to brag that I did so, I would have did that a long time ago and I have helped identifying fakes and copies in the past. As far as Bill perceiving that I am negative to the hobby I am not. I just believe there are alot of braggarts and individuals who collect for money now and I really do not like to associate myself with those doushbags. I have found that the guys on this forum are quite different and I have enjoyed all the banter back and fourth thru the years and just general discussion.

 

[jaymassive619]

I used to make fakes...I do not any longer and have not made said copies in quite a long amount of time. As far as Bill taking abuse I think he had it coming, but because he is "Respected" in the hobby he can obviously say what he wants(Even if taken the wrong way) and get the backing of his supporters (Sounds like RS). I do actually now feel that Bill has clarified himself and actually has come across as a stand-up guy, but make no mistake that it is not correct of people to defend someone who may have said something wrong, as I defended Han early on and I take every bit of it back. I no longer make copies of known prototypes and I feel if I wanted to brag that I did so, I would have did that a long time ago and I have helped identifying fakes and copies in the past. As far as Bill perceiving that I am negative to the hobby I am not. I just believe there are alot of braggarts and individuals who collect for money now and I really do not like to associate myself with those doushbags. I have found that the guys on this forum are quite different and I have enjoyed all the banter back and fourth thru the years and just general discussion.

No probs Todd i like Andy did to me probably read the tone / meaning of your post wrongly then mate what your saying above makes more sense. (Mind its been a ****ing shitty few days and im on my 7th Double Vodka Red Bull at the minute)

So if i need some help regarding a guide regarding fakes would you be able to chip some info in?

Cheers Jay

 

[spoons]

Fair point Andy its down to individuals not forums 100% my comment was regarding the abuse nothing else though so please dont take my language out of context it certainly wasnt intended the way you have interpreted it. If you check Marks post at the top of Page 3 he said pretty much the same thing as me im sure also like me all he meant the abuse was out of order and wasn't pertaining to some sort of forum contest.

fair enough Jay - my bad

as to Todd scamming 12 years ago, I wont defend that but it was a long time ago and who knows what other skeletons people have in their closets.

Todd, I hope if anyone here had one of those fakes you'd let them know

 

[Josh]

I am a former scammer. I have been in the manufacturing of plastics for decades and I am a degreed Manufacturing engineer in plastics and have a vast tool and die background. To make a long story short when I was younger I used to sell some"Said" Prototype on ebay and sold to several happy customer's....so Maybe 50% is obtuse but I assure you some of my flawless creations rest in collections and people are happy and unaware. With thats said, If you would have just merely said "Where do you come up with a number of 50%???" I would have been quite more civilized...but because you are the self appointed end all to all the question in vintage collecting...I had to approach this differently.

Todd you sound like your proud that your creations fooled people and not genuinely sorry for ripping so many people off! Its almost like your bragging about it.

(Lets see if you get the hair dryer treatment off old joshy boy)

Bill you came to this forum to help out and got **** for it its a disgrace.

Whats the hobby coming to really?



:roll:

 

[jaymassive619]

I am a former scammer. I have been in the manufacturing of plastics for decades and I am a degreed Manufacturing engineer in plastics and have a vast tool and die background. To make a long story short when I was younger I used to sell some"Said" Prototype on ebay and sold to several happy customer's....so Maybe 50% is obtuse but I assure you some of my flawless creations rest in collections and people are happy and unaware. With thats said, If you would have just merely said "Where do you come up with a number of 50%???" I would have been quite more civilized...but because you are the self appointed end all to all the question in vintage collecting...I had to approach this differently.

Todd you sound like your proud that your creations fooled people and not genuinely sorry for ripping so many people off! Its almost like your bragging about it.

(Lets see if you get the hair dryer treatment off old joshy boy)

Bill you came to this forum to help out and got **** for it its a disgrace.

Whats the hobby coming to really?



:roll:

Josh the little dig there was honestly meant in jest mate. "Hair Dryer Treament" is a reference to Alex Ferguson the manager of Mancherster United - http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/article1481901.ece

I still stand by the fact Bill getting blasted wasnt on though but its good to see Bill come back explain his point and clarify what he meant and also Todd picking that up positively as well.

Andy no probs mate, Good point though Todd if you saw a forum member had purchased one of your fakes i would hope that you would inform them then work with both the parties invloved to make it right.

Jay

 

[Josh]

It wasn't on at all...I agree! I actually showed Bill so I could have a good laugh at his reply...yup I'm a **** :roll: . We were in the SWCA Chat at the time when I saw Todd's reply. I think I posted the link and said something like...friend of yours Bill?


I also know arguing with Todd is a bit like arguing with this guy.

 

[Capetown]

Josh you son of a croc! :lol:

 

[Bill McBride]

Guys, please ... I have no desire to get into a pissing match with anyone, regardless of our point of view.

Actions speak louder than words, and in rare occasions, people just leap into the holes they dig.
I think I have a good reputation for being an honest, open, and very helpful person in the hobby.
I have also been fortunate enough to help, and contribute to several collecting books and magazines
over the years, and I have done everything for the sole purpose of trying to be beneficial, and share
things from my collection. I genuinely love collecting, and this hobby. If the only thing I cared about was
making money, I would take my site down and make everyone buy the information via a price guide, or collecting reference.
I have lost count of the number of people I have helped over the years authenticating, and reviewing various DT sabers
and/or rare Darth Vader pieces.
I also post a lot of this information freely on my site, and anyone is welcome to read it, and ask me questions at any time:

http://www.sithtoys.com/DTsabers.html

Todd - I really don't know what to tell you. We obviously look at things from two very different perspectives, however
I apologize for making a statement that offended you. I also followed up a statement to clarify things. I can assure you
that if you knew me personally, you would also know that I'm not the type of person to insult, or degrade anyone.
I have no collecting "ego" or anything of the sort. However, the only thing I felt/feel I "deserve" coming here, and trying
to help, is a little respect. What in my original post have you any sort of idea that I was being snobbish, or degrading ?

In terms of my "RS" backers, or people defending me out of hand - here is my profile on RS:
http://threads.rebelscum.com/showprofile.php?Cat=&User=857

I've been there for close to 10 *years*, and I barely broke the 1k post mark. I like to contribute as I feel, or on subjects I
enjoy, which is one of the reasons I wanted to join here. Unlike some people, I don't have any skeletons in my closet or things
to hide. I'm fairly easy to research on google under my name, or my site name "sithtoys.com"

~ back to the subject at hand. To put this in perspective, we are looking at a potential fraud/scheme on a level that even
some of the "older" collectors have never seen. Money-wise, we are talking about more than the price of your average American
HOUSE. So I think it is more than a matter of conversation to discuss this, rather I think people need to do everything possible to
uncover suspect pieces, and help bring justice to the people that are effected. In many cases, the effected parties are getting
double-shafted, by either having to refund other collectors directly, or have sold high-end items to back the purchase of one of these
fakes. The only people that are doing the right thing at the moment, are the collector's involved.

I am not trying in any way to create "drama", or inflame people's emotions. I'm simply offering information to the people which are potentially
effected, and offer an objective opinion based on my experience in the hobby. If anything, I am trying to soothe people's nerves on the subject,
and extend myself in any way possible to help. I have been in contact with Chris G. and Tom (Derby) who are doing the real nuts and bolts on
these pieces, and I will gladly help anyone get information to them, or contact them.

Bill

 

[Josh]

We have a section for plugging your site
I kid I kid.
Sorry folks if I have inflamed the situation...but it is not like Bill would not have seen it anyway at some point.

 

[jaymassive619]

I also know arguing with Todd is a bit like arguing with this guy.

Who does that remind me of lol

 

[jaymassive619]

Bill its good to hear movement is been made in the proto scam i truely hope everyone unites to take action buddy.

 

[Josh]

I also know arguing with Todd is a bit like arguing with this guy.

Who does that remind me of lol

Joe?

 

[jaymassive619]

I also know arguing with Todd is a bit like arguing with this guy.

Who does that remind me of lol

Joe?

Or me or you LOL

 

[tiefighterboy]

Not to type a book about this any longer, but I would always help anyone on these forums (Even Josh). Nothing I ever sold was to anyone on this forum as nothing went overseas. I have always helped when needed. I just love to talk trash and occasionally talk vintage toys. My humor is as raw and sarcastic as it comes and no I am not a negative person...I just really get annoyed easily by stupid people and there need to be politically correct. I have made some good friends on this little site over the time I have been on here and We just have to keep in mind this is just a little chat board that grown men talk about old toys on. Hugs and Kisses.

Todd

 

[Bill McBride]

Bill its good to hear movement is been made in the proto scam i truely hope everyone unites to take action buddy.

Jay, that's what a lot of what is happening. Here are the things that are actively going on:
~ Collectors are giving out refunds to people they sold the HC's to, so people are trying to get
these pieces back to the original purchasers (from Scott).
~ Jordan (Hollywood Heroes) has stepped up to the plate, and is offering blanket refunds
to people, no questions asked. In one case he even told the person to keep the dodgy HC
~ Chris G. and Tom D. are pouring over these pieces, and doing the majority of the detailed
examinations, and comparisons.
~ Other people are trying to get the word out in any way possible, to reach as many potential
victims as possible. At this point, I think if anyone here has *any* piece, or even a random part
or limb that they have concerns over, please please please let someone know. Especially if any
one here who attended CV, and may have purchased something. There are pieces he had at the
show which were purchased, but can't be accounted for.

Bill

~ If you don't feel comfortable posting information openly, please shoot me a PM, or email ([email protected])

 

[PGowdy]

Wow, sounds like there are a lot of "Wolffies" out there at moment. Scary. :shock:

 

[**Delboy75**]

Yep.

Im actually thinking of just knocking the forums on the head for a while tbh.

Im sick to death of reading about scamming.

Todd, thats a brave statement to make.
Just because you sold some fake prototypes 12 years ago to u.s collectors does not mean that one of us European collectors haven't unwittingly purchased one since.
Proto's change hands a lot, so its highly likely that some of your fakes made their way over here.
This is pretty shocking tbh, thank god i changed my mind about getting into prototypes.

 

[Bill McBride]

Yep.
Im actually thinking of just knocking the forums on the head for a while tbh.
Im sick to death of reading about scamming.

I completely agree with you. I think (unfortunately) it's just a result of people being more connected, and the amount
of information we share increases over time. When I started, ebay didn't exist, the internet as we know it didn't exist, so
everything was done via the phone, toy shows, magazines, and of course "Toy Shop".

I think the real point here is that you need to do your own research when it comes to pieces like this. (My personal area
of study has been DT sabers, and 15+ years later, I am still learning things)
The second key point is objectivity; these are high-end grail pieces for most people, and it is very, very easy to have your
emotions slap the blinders on, and your passion takes over. My main issue with Scott was simply the quantity of items he
claimed to own and/or was selling. Even the most upper-end, mega collectors and all our sources combined didn't equal up
to what he had floating around. My BS-detector was off the scale with him, so I didn't even respond to his emails.

Everyone is concerned over issues like this, but I think it's great to see so many people stepping up, and doing the right thing
to correct these problems. No one is passing the buck on Scott, so things will certainly be coming back to him, and people like
him.

Bill

 

[Josh]

Yep.
Im actually thinking of just knocking the forums on the head for a while tbh.
Im sick to death of reading about scamming.

I completely agree with you. I think (unfortunately) it's just a result of people being more connected, and the amount
of information we share increases over time. When I started, ebay didn't exist, the internet as we know it didn't exist, so
everything was done via the phone, toy shows, magazines, and of course "Toy Shop".

I think the real point here is that you need to do your own research when it comes to pieces like this. (My personal area
of study has been DT sabers, and 15+ years later, I am still learning things)
The second key point is objectivity; these are high-end grail pieces for most people, and it is very, very easy to have your
emotions slap the blinders on, and your passion takes over. My main issue with Scott was simply the quantity of items he
claimed to own and/or was selling. Even the most upper-end, mega collectors and all our sources combined didn't equal up
to what he had floating around. My BS-detector was off the scale with him, so I didn't even respond to his emails.

Everyone is concerned over issues like this, but I think it's great to see so many people stepping up, and doing the right thing
to correct these problems. No one is passing the buck on Scott, so things will certainly be coming back to him, and people like
him.

Bill

IMO the biggest red flag of all.

 

[weasel]

Ok, so Todd and Bill got off on the wrong foot, to be fair it can be hard to tell someones tone when you simply read what they have said/written. Now they've made up, or at least burried the hatchet.

Can everyone else keep the slagging/insults to a miminum (it's calmed down a bit since pages 3-5, thankfully) or I'll split this thread and leave only Bill's initial post about the fake Hardcopies and lock the rest of it down.

I appreciate tempers run high, and it's easy to get the wrong end of the stick some time, but this thread was started to warm/help people affected by the Hardcopies and Prototypes, so lets try and keep it on that and not decend into some bitch-fest! Please!
If only for me cos I'm lazy and can't really be bothered to lock/split threads! :lol: