Han's plot hole...

[x-pack]

Not so much of a plot issue but certainly something is wrong ...again

Just watching ANH on TV now and Luke is using that Jedi training ball in the Falcon. Shortly after Han says 'I call it luck'. Later on he goes onto say 'I've been from one side of the galaxy to the other...'

Well Han claims to have never encountered the Force. How can that be possible? Before Anakin and his crew wiped out most of the Jedi there must have been thousands of them knocking about. How can Han not believe that their power exists? The time lapse is only around twenty years at best.

Only just realised this :shock: It would appear that Jedi power deteriorated over those twenty years if OB1 and Vader's light saber duel is anything to go by :roll:

 

[JuniorChubb]

Not so much of a plot issue but certainly something is wrong ...again

Just watching ANH on TV now and Luke is using that Jedi training ball in the Falcon. Shortly after Han says 'I call it luck'. Later on he goes onto say 'I've been from one side of the galaxy to the other...'

Well Han claims to have never encountered the Force. How can that be possible? Before Anakin and his crew wiped out most of the Jedi there must have been thousands of them knocking about. How can Han not believe that their power exists? The time lapse is only around twenty years at best.

Only just realised this :shock: It would appear that Jedi power deteriorated over those twenty years if OB1 and Vader's light saber duel is anything to go by :roll:

There are a probably a few ways to explain this but, before I give you one I will give you the truth...

George Lucas is a twat and his 'needyness' to create film that everyone would love he just said '**** it' to continuity. :wink:

Now onto the fiction...

A more politically correct version is that Han had never witnessed the power of a Jedi in his early life. He may have seen them, maybe heard stories of their power but never witnessed it and Han is definitely a 'see it to believe it' kind of guy. Lets say Solo was about 30 in ANH, then he was about 14 when order 66 was served, making it possible that he had no knowledge of the Force.

Then if you chuck in the EU, he was a slave as a kid (with probably little exposure to outside world), the we was an Imperial (the people who destroyed the Jedi Order, so no Force confirmation there either).

Actually considering he was blind when Luke kicked arse in ROTJ, was on Endor when Luke fought Vader, he saved Lukes life twice in ANH and ESB he still probably does not believe in the force even after the Original Trilogy :lol:

 

[PGowdy]

Really don't see a problem with that. He doesn't say he's never heard of Jedi's just doesn't believe in "The Force". Seems completely plausible to me. Why would he necessarily? I would also imagine that even when Jedi were still knocking about they would still be a very insignificant portion of the entire population of a Galaxy. Add to this that Han would have only been about 10-12 years old when Jedi went into hiding and were then all but eradicated so would have had very little if any direct contact with any Jedi on his travels.

 

[kieatky]

Only just realised this :shock: It would appear that Jedi power deteriorated over those twenty years if OB1 and Vader's light saber duel is anything to go by :roll:


Also technology and vehicle design took a step backwards in comparison to that on display in the earlier movies :lol:

 

[tiefighterboy]

ANH was made in 1977.................nobody thought the first three would be released...........nor that they would be so horrible. Thus the reason Han has no clue and after Episode 2 was released....I was a little confused myself.

The biggest geek question at the time of Episode one was this...........why did Obi-wan disappear when he died and Qui-Gon did not as they are both now Jedi Ghosts???

 

[Jez]

To have a go at answering your question Todd, if say it was because Ben's death was controlled/accepted by Ben, it was his decision. Qui Gon's death was because Darth Maul handed him his ass on a plate and out fought him. Qui Gon had no control over his own death. Geeky enough answer?

 

[tiefighterboy]

To have a go at answering your question Todd, if say it was because Ben's death was controlled/accepted by Ben, it was his decision. Qui Gon's death was because Darth Maul handed him his ass on a plate and out fought him. Qui Gon had no control over his own death. Geeky enough answer?

I have heard longer answers in regards to Obi being more of a higher order of jedi....Your answer was much shorter and I did not fall asleep reading it.

 

[JuniorChubb]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.....

what huh?

Did you say something Jez?

 

[Simply Sci-fi]

Han's disbelief of the Force is not a plot hole for me, because the religion seems to have passed from its use by the Jedi into folklore. At the time of A New Hope, people probably told stories about the Jedi and "May the Force be with you/us" was still a term that people used (such as General Dodonna). Perhaps the Force had become a part of the miss-mash of people's religious lives. Han was well travelled and had probably rolled his eyes at hundreds of different interpretations of the Force by people. He'd probably heard "may the force be with you" a thousand times and gritted his teeth every time. It's a poignant moment when Han relents and says "May the Force be with you" to Luke.

How about something that could be seen as a genuine plot hole? Princess Leia told Tarkin that the Rebel base was on Dantooine seconds before the Death Star blew up Alderaan. Presumably at the same moment, Ben sensed the disaster aboard the Millennium Falcon. Han Solo reported that that the arrival at Alderaan would be at 0200 hours (2 am) which would have been later the same day. The scene skips up until 2am, with a chunk of time missing in-between Chewbacca's "Let the Wookiee win" growl and Luke continuing his training.

The report that "scout ships had reached Dantooine…" came just before the Millennium Falcon was captured by the Death Star. How could have Imperial scout ships had been sent all the way to Dantooine and had time to scour the planet in less than a day? I presume that the old rebel base would have been extremely well hidden.

This seems impossible, unless Lucas was using the concept of time dilation. The Millennium Falcon only experienced a day's worth of lightspeed plus hyperspace travel, while the Death Star remained in the Alderaan system and experienced several days or weeks – enough time for Dantooine to be searched.

Is there any other answer to that one?

Craig.

 

[x-pack]

Lucas got his artistic license that day :roll:


I did not know Han was a slave. Sheltered or enclosed childhood is a plausible reason for his lack of belief.

Still, say the time lapse between Ep.3 and ANH is around 20 years, well that's not much time for rumors or first hand experience to have disappeared. He's been from one side of the galaxy to the other and seen a lot of strange stuff remember.

In Episode 3 we see the full extent of the Jedi order. It has it's own training school, council. It even has access to a Clone army. Just seems odd for anyone who is a seasoned space traveler not to believe.

Of course Lucas probably just didn't think it through when it came to the prequels. Those damned fans picking holes in his stories :x

 

[JuniorChubb]

Han's disbelief of the Force is not a plot hole for me, because the religion seems to have passed from its use by the Jedi into folklore. At the time of A New Hope, people probably told stories about the Jedi and "May the Force be with you/us" was still a term that people used (such as General Dodonna). Perhaps the Force had become a part of the miss-mash of people's religious lives. Han was well travelled and had probably rolled his eyes at hundreds of different interpretations of the Force by people. He'd probably heard "may the force be with you" a thousand times and gritted his teeth every time. It's a poignant moment when Han relents and says "May the Force be with you" to Luke.

How about something that could be seen as a genuine plot hole? Princess Leia told Tarkin that the Rebel base was on Dantooine seconds before the Death Star blew up Alderaan. Presumably at the same moment, Ben sensed the disaster aboard the Millennium Falcon. Han Solo reported that that the arrival at Alderaan would be at 0200 hours (2 am) which would have been later the same day. The scene skips up until 2am, with a chunk of time missing in-between Chewbacca's "Let the Wookiee win" growl and Luke continuing his training.

The report that "scout ships had reached Dantooine…" came just before the Millennium Falcon was captured by the Death Star. How could have Imperial scout ships had been sent all the way to Dantooine and had time to scour the planet in less than a day? I presume that the old rebel base would have been extremely well hidden.

This seems impossible, unless Lucas was using the concept of time dilation. The Millennium Falcon only experienced a day's worth of lightspeed plus hyperspace travel, while the Death Star remained in the Alderaan system and experienced several days or weeks – enough time for Dantooine to be searched.

Is there any other answer to that one?

Craig.

Yup, ask a Trekkie they love this kind of question :wink:

Lucas got his artistic license that day :roll:


I did not know Han was a slave. Sheltered or enclosed childhood is a plausible reason for his lack of belief.

Still, say the time lapse between Ep.3 and ANH is around 20 years, well that's not much time for rumors or first hand experience to have disappeared. He's been from one side of the galaxy to the other and seen a lot of strange stuff remember.

In Episode 3 we see the full extent of the Jedi order. It has it's own training school, council. It even has access to a Clone army. Just seems odd for anyone who is a seasoned space traveler not to believe.

Of course Lucas probably just didn't think it through when it came to the prequels. Those damned fans picking holes in his stories :x

Damn fans, I do agree that 16 years (or 20) does not seem long enough for the legend of the Jedi to disappear into myth. Before the prequels I always imagined the time between the end of the Jedi's and ANH being at least 50 years or so (Ben looked older than he was to me as a kid), maybe even longer...

 

[Grant_C]

Some people believe Barack Obama is a Muslim communist from Kenya.

The galaxy is full of all sorts I guess

 

[JuniorChubb]

Some people believe Barack Obama is a Muslim communist from Kenya.

The galaxy is full of all sorts I guess

You have obviously read his Birth Certificate :wink:

:lol: :lol:

 

[PGowdy]

Some people believe Barack Obama is a Muslim communist from Kenya.

The galaxy is full of all sorts I guess

I have several friends who genuinely don't believe the moon landing happened. Ignorance and denial know no bounds. In this galaxy or any other.

 

[weasel]

Ignorance and denial know no bounds. In this galaxy or any other.

Just look at creationists FFS

 

[naughtyjedi]

Han says

"Kid, I've flown from one side of this galaxy to the other, and I've seen a lot of strange stuff, but I've never seen *anything* to make me believe that there's one all-powerful Force controlling everything. 'Cause no mystical energy field controls *my* destiny. It's all a lot of simple tricks and nonsense. "

I think the op has the context wrong, he doesnt say he hasn't encountered jedi's, or the force, he just says he doesnt *believe* in "one all-powerful Force controlling everything", especially him. "Simple tricks and nonsense" pretty much covers it all. That alone would suggest he has encountered Jedi's, what with their waving of hands, silly swords and wearing robes. And any atheist would say something similar. Doesn't say, IMO that he hasn't encountered the force, just dismisses it because he puts himself as most important, then chewie and the falcon.

 

[naughtyjedi]

ANH was made in 1977.................nobody thought the first three would be released...........nor that they would be so horrible. Thus the reason Han has no clue and after Episode 2 was released....I was a little confused myself.

The biggest geek question at the time of Episode one was this...........why did Obi-wan disappear when he died and Qui-Gon did not as they are both now Jedi Ghosts???

[anal mode on] Clone wars Bonus missions (CWBM) 'explains' it. Which is now considered canon by Disney/Lucasfilm/etc. Qui Gon was exploring the force way above what the Jedi Council were doing, a couple of times he was referenced to have been a bit maverick. He was following a different path and clearly a bit more tuned in than even Yoda. Clearly he was a bit **** with the saber as Maul did him cheaply. At the end of ROTS yoda ****s off to Dagobah to continue his studies on the force and sets up Obi Wan to also continue the path to immortality which Qui Gon had started and had encouraged Yoda to look at in the CWBM. By the time Luke skywalker appears on the scene it appears Yoda has become in tune with the force far greater than seen in the prequels. Yoda states in ESB that he's been watching him closely.. how do you do that from Dagobah unless you are a kick ass force user. And Obi Wan has likely seen his own death but its necessary to kick start the Skywalker bringing the balance to the force that they all got told in the prophecy. [anal mode still on.. ]

This is why in the new film, I think we'll see Luke Skywalker as a more balanced Jedi, not following the old jedi order and having a light and dark side but having a bit of both. Using dark side powers for good. Because a dark side is seductive, why have it? etc etc.. more boring theories.. yadda yadda..

 

[JuniorChubb]

I have several friends who genuinely don't believe the moon landing happened. Ignorance and denial know no bounds. In this galaxy or any other.

I feel your pain Pete

I have a few too, and my God have you tried to convince them otherwise?

Bart Sibrel is Yoda to these guys :lol: