The imaginatively titled Premier League 21/22 Thread

[lejackal]

Yeah, and three other defenders, and a few more midfielders. Ohh and a striker!

We'll be alright. Maybe

 

[theforceuk]

Swearing ha ha go for it !
I think the signings for Utd are good and show a support for OGS, can't fault his progression
that's the issue in today's environment, show support for a manager, back him, instead of panicking and sea change of manager and back room staff, show a bit of commitment, hopefully the Utd signings show the progressive attitude of the club and the proof of the pudding is in the next season

I agree to a degree and I think OGS had to be given a new contract as he only had one year left on his old contract. No top clubs go into a new season with a manager that only has one year left on his contract, that has just finished second in the league. That said their are still some big question marks for me. He doesn't change things in games when things aren't happening, the Europa League final was a clear case in point. He clearly has favourites that never get dropped even thow they're no where near the standard of Liverpool, Chelsea and Man City's first 11. Fred and McTominay are the two that spring to mind. Also their's the goalkeeping situation which I don't understand at all. De Gea has been our best player since 2013, Henderson has one good season at Sheffield Utd and all of a sudden he's the number 1? WTF is that about? Then their's the style of play, its boring and defence minded 80% of the time. If we don't get a decent DCM who can move the ball forward quicker than McFred do combined and we go into them both starting next season then I will seriously fear the worst for OGS. Liverpool, Chelsea and City are all going to get more points than they did last season IMO and if Man Utd finish 4th that's not progression.

The Glaziers took out another £8 million in dividends last week, that doesn't happen at any other club, shocking!

 

[weasel]

We'll be alright. Maybe

Genuine question, what sort of position constitutes a "good" season for Arsenal?

Obviously that comes with the caveat of no mass injury crisis like Pool had last year. Had you asked me that question a year ago I would have said 'top 2'. As it turned out 3rd was a superb result, given the injuries. If we assume Arsenal have everyone fit, within reason, where do they need to finish to have done well?

The same question can probably be asked of Utd fans.

For both, does the pts difference to the teams above/below matter? Is 2nd with (say) 84 pts and being ahead of 3rd by 1 pt, better than 3rd on GD and finishing with 90pts!?

 

[lejackal]

Genuine question, what sort of position constitutes a "good" season for Arsenal?

Obviously that comes with the caveat of no mass injury crisis like Pool had last year. Had you asked me that question a year ago I would have said 'top 2'. As it turned out 3rd was a superb result, given the injuries. If we assume Arsenal have everyone fit, within reason, where do they need to finish to have done well?

The same question can probably be asked of Utd fans.

For both, does the pts difference to the teams above/below matter? Is 2nd with (say) 84 pts and being ahead of 3rd by 1 pt, better than 3rd on GD and finishing with 90pts!?

We have to get back into the EL (I'd love to say CL but I'm not convinced that's realistic, despite having the 3rd best points haul post December/January)
3rd would be exceptional
4th would be punching above our weight
5th/6th should be the minimum
7th or below would be failure

Although to caveat the above of 4th to 7th was a five point spread then maybe 7th is okay. It depends who is above us and who we drop points to. I'd take beating everyone bar top four and getting in the CL over decent results over the teams above us but loosing to Everton, Villa etc

does that make sense?

 

[weasel]

We have to get back into the EL (I'd love to say CL but I'm not convinced that's realistic, despite having the 3rd best points haul post December/January)
3rd would be exceptional
4th would be punching above our weight
5th/6th should be the minimum
7th or below would be failure

I'd say, that's about right.
As I see it there are four sides who look safe enough bets for the Cl spots. The same four in finished in them last season. The order is TBC.
Then we have Leicester, Spurs, Arsenal and at a push Everton (a lot hinges on how Rafa does). Three of those four will be in the EL and UEFA Conference spots (I'm calling that the Cup Winners Cup, CWC, cos that's what it is, and it's quicker to type).

I don't see WH repeating last season, but I could be wrong.

So depending who wins the cups, sorry, depending who loses the cup finals to City, 5-7th should be EL/CWC spots.

I can't see Arsenal making the top four, it would require a massive implosion from of those those four sides, AND Leicester to choke AGAIN, AND Arsenal to go on the kind of run I just can't see them doing. Yes, they did well post Xmas, but the pressure was effectively off as they had FA to play for and were never going to go down.

I'll get the predictions thread up in a week or two and we can all make idiots of ourselves again.

 

[edd_jedi]

At least for Arsenal we have a rough idea of what to expect, so yeah 7th-4th sounds about right. As for Spurs? New manager, Kane either going or not wanting to play (didn't turn up to training today), big defensive reshuffle, and a few new signings to bed in. We could genuinely finish anywhere from 4th-15th, I have no idea.

 

[theforceuk]

Man Utd have got to challenge for the title IMO, OGS has spent £400 million since he got the job and bought a top player in every position, no excuses for me. The only thing I would say is if he doesn't get a DCM, but if he still refuses to pick Van De Beekand and plays McFred that's on him.

 

[edd_jedi]

I just don't see anyone other than City and Liverpool challenging for the title, there's a huge gulf between them and the other four or five clubs chasing. United were lucky to finish second last season, the table doesn't lie but Liverpool were severely handicapped and apart from Leicester I can't think of any other PL era teams who have had such a bad season after winning the title. They were on course for a fifth or even sixth place finish after Christmas. I think they will be much stronger this season, I honestly don't think a few good signings is enough for a rookie(ish) manager to overcome Pep or Klopp. You're right that the expectation is there though!

 

[weasel]

Grealish to City for 100m!?

What am I missing there. He is a bang average "good PL" player playing at a club where the team is built around him. At City that won't happen. Will he ever look like a 100m signing? Is he an improvement on Mahrez, Silva, KDB, Sterling, or gudogan? No and ehh no. So why spend 100m on him?
Sign Kane, with his dodgy ankles. Or sign Haaland and fix the one weakness in your squad. Ok maybe LB as well.
It just doesn't make sense to me.

If it does happen Harry Kane is fooked. No way City will spend 100m on Grealish AND 100m+ on him. They can't do that and stay within the rules of FFP, unless I'm missing something. So Harry will be stuck at spurs where he is in the process of burning his bridges by not turning up to training (he no showed again today).


As for Utd, as it stands they have the most expensive defender in PL history (Fat Maguire), the most expensive midfielder in PL history (Pogba) and the most expensive attacker in PL history (Sancho), as well as the highest paid keeper in PL history (DDG). They can't really have any excuses if they aren't challenging. I don't see them challenging while OGS is in charge.

 

[edd_jedi]

Yeah that was kind of my point about United, a good manager with average players is often better than good players with an average manager. I don't think any signings on the pitch will make them title contenders.

 

[edd_jedi]

And yep I've got no idea what Kane is playing at, seems foolish to not turn up to training, why burn your bridges with the club you supposedly support? Surely it would be better to leave on good terms, or stay on good terms.

 

[weasel]

Agreed on Kane.

I suspect he is pissed off at Spurs not being in contention for trophies and more so at Levy for not honouring his supposed 'gentleman's agreement' The first bit I can understand. The second bit is purely on Kane though. 1) He should have got it in writing from Levy. Levy is a shrewd businessman, he works on contracts not vague promises. Kane also needs some way to prove this agreement existed, otherwise people could go round claiming anything was a gentleman's agreement. 2) If there was an agreement, I would suspect it was conditional on Spurs getting what they/Levy consider fair value. That is Levy's cop out. He does NOT sell players cheaply. Kane should know this. He must have know Levy would value him at absolute top dollar and reject anything below that overly inflated price. Yet he still took him at his word (apparently).

Whatever way you dress that up, Kane was stupid.
He signed the 57yr contract 2 years ago and has 3 or 4 years left. Levy has all the power. Kane can sulk all he wants. Levy does not have to sell, and I doubt he will for anything under £120m.

Kane is burning his bridges with no realistic hope of a move.

 

[lejackal]

Yep, as Koscielny discovered a couple of years ago verbal agreements aren't worth squat. Obviously him and Kane are miles apart value wise but they are/were both long term committed professionals, both club captains and both got shafted on a gentlemen's agreement. Yes, LK got his move but what a **** show it was, especially for someone who had given so much to the club (however much he earned)

 

[edd_jedi]

Villa have signed Ings who was apparently on Spurs' list. I know what's going to happen, Kane will be sold one day before the season starts and when all of the good available players have already been sold. At least Villa have some sense making preparations for Grealish going.

 

[lejackal]

We have filled a couple of holes in the squad but (rather unsurprisingly) don't seem to be able to sell/give away anyone

 

[weasel]

The Ings one is a strange move for me. I know his contract was up and he wasn't for signing a new one, so i get why Saints sold him. £25m with £5m in add-ons is probably a fairly solid price for an underrated striker like him. Albeit one with a dodgy injury history and who is 28/29 (a bit like Harry Kane in that respect). BUT is moving from Saints to Villa a step up? It's sideways, at best. Surely he could have got a better move than Villa?

As you say Edd, if Kane goes, he would surely have been one of the first names Spuds talked about as a potential replacement. Given his contract status he would have been, relatively, cheap as well, and that suits Levy down to the ground.

Now he's stuck a fairly stodgy Villa side who won't do any more than mid-table obscurity in a good year.

On the other hands Saints have big problems, his goals kept them out of trouble last year. With him gone, they need a new goal scorer or a couple of decent players to strengthen that squad or they could be looking at a long auld slog of a season.

 

[edd_jedi]

Quick Levy, sell Kane and buy Messi!

 

[lejackal]

Quick Levy, sell Kane and buy Messi!

As good as he has been he has bled that club dry

 

[edd_jedi]

Yeah sounds like Barcelona are ruined financially, who would have thought paying one player half a million euros a week would bankrupt you!?

Grealish to City is deal done, so does that mean they can't afford/don't want Kane any more? I must say I don't think Grealish is worth 2/3 of Kane, but will be interesting to see how he gets on there.

 

[lejackal]

I mean do you think Kane is worth north of 100mil? As Weasel has said before he's more or less physically ****ed (ankles). One or two seasons and he's not going to be half the player he has been.

As for Grealish I'm surprised City have done a hundred on him, not because of his footballing ability but because of his off field behaviour. Better recently but still (allegedly) drink driving