Today on Facebook...

[steve obi wan]

bye guys and happy collecting there is too much negativity in this place try and not let it take over your life,
anyone who isnt bitter about echos popularity you know where to find me!!

Buddy , your missing the point completely , I have no issues with EB being popular , feedback was asked and given , if you don't like what you hear don't ask , this is my opinion how I think it could be improved !

All I see is a debate , not negativity !

Maybe if you stay on and discussed EB , everyone would benefit .

 

[maxf]

But it's not really my cup of tea (a little attempt at a poke at what Brits drink ), so I unfollowed a while ago. I pop in every once in a while (didn't leave the group) to see what's going on, but really spend my time in groups that have content that interests me more with rules I don't find to be draconian, controlling and counterproductive.

I advise others that feel the same as I do to do the same and move on. All the complaining and arguing is POINTLESS.

Ditto - I didnt like the way some elements of the group worked, so decided I didnt need to be part of it. Pretty straightforward choice really.

 

[tiefighterboy]

I actually like the groups banter. I don't buy on there because honestly EBay holds way more bargains.

 

[plantainman]

Im an admin on echo and we will continue to help all the many members that join on a hourly basis we must be doing something right if so many people want to be part of echo.

Happy collecting xxx

What is it you 'do right' exactly to accept credit? Press the blue button that says 'accept request'?

FB will always be a fantastic platform for bringing people together and it is real easy to start a group and find likeminded individuals. There is certainly a niche market there and it suits many newer collectors. Your group probably does provide a lot of positive results for a lot of the members, I don't know, i'm not involved.
That said, you can't compare a group of 10,000 first year students to the 100 seniors completing their Masters degree, They're poles apart, which is where the friction arises I think.

But you certainly can't come on an established open forum and dictate to the longtime knowledgeable members what topics they can discuss and how to go about doing it! The need to police the 10,000 noobs is understandable, but it isn't required on this forum, We are more than capable of keeping our own behaviour on track.

I for one would rather spend 10 minutes a day reading about some of the crazy antics of the FB crowd, than have to scroll through endless mind numbing posts on tens of different FB pages whilst getting into shouting matches with some guy who insists he bought his loose A-wing pilot with a force pike and therefore that must be the weapon he was originally carded with and it a 'rare piece'.

This thread acts a news summary for those people who don't have the time or inclination to get involved on FB and I very much wouldn't want to see it disappear because one or two of the FB admin crowd don't like their group being discussed.

 

[RetroDan16]

Does 'Today on Facebook' ever mention swfuk's own Facebook group?

If Facebook groups really don't work the way many are saying here, why does swfuk have a group page?

It's obvious - like it or not, forums are becoming an aged platform, whilst whether we like it or not, and God knows Facebook is full of faults - it's here for the long haul. Clearly even swfuk can see that, having it's own presence there. Let me reiterate again, this isn't Echo-centric, it's platform centric.

This is why it comes across as snootiness on behalf of those who *don't* use Facebook, yet are very quick to demerit its uses, and users.

I can't stress enough this isn't a dick waving competition between groups, just an interest as to why there is such a divide between forums and more social platforms.

 

[RetroDan16]

That said, you can't compare a group of 10,000 first year students to the 100 seniors completing their Masters degree, They're poles apart, which is where the friction arises I think.

These are the kinds of statements that also cause friction. This is the kind of almost elitist and assumptive attitude that causes thread like this in the first place, surely?

Don't get me wrong, a huge percentage of that 10,000 (*sigh* let's use Echo again) are very new. But that very statement above suggests a gulf of intelligence which is unjust.

 

[plantainman]

Does 'Today on Facebook' ever mention swfuk's own Facebook group?

If Facebook groups really don't work the way many are saying here, why does swfuk have a group page?

It's obvious - like it or not, forums are becoming an aged platform, whilst whether we like it or not, and God knows Facebook is full of faults - it's here for the long haul. Clearly even swfuk can see that, having it's own presence there. Let me reiterate again, this isn't Echo-centric, it's platform centric.

This is why it comes across as snootiness on behalf of those who *don't* use Facebook, yet are very quick to demerit its uses, and users.

I can't stress enough this isn't a dick waving competition between groups, just an interest as to why there is such a divide between forums and more social platforms.

I disagree here. I can search forums and find information from decades back, but FB posts get deleted, edited and removed at will, and once those comments are gone, they're gone forever. FB will NEVER be a reliable resource for learning because it only shows you what it thinks you might want to see and all the info is so very short-term, but it is great for bringing people together and creating a buzz.

I can't comment about the SWFUK FB page as I have never joined it, I don't see why I would need to as I use the forum. I am a member of about 6 Star Wars FB pages which suits my activity levels just fine and gives me a good balance of being able to help newer members whilst alos keeping an eye out for a couple of pieces I need to add to my collection.

 

[plantainman]

That said, you can't compare a group of 10,000 first year students to the 100 seniors completing their Masters degree, They're poles apart, which is where the friction arises I think.

These are the kinds of statements that also cause friction. This is the kind of almost elitist and assumptive attitude that causes thread like this in the first place, surely?

Don't get me wrong, a huge percentage of that 10,000 (*sigh* let's use Echo again) are very new. But that very statement above suggests a gulf of intelligence which is unjust.

It would only cause 'false' offense to the handful of first year students who believed they were as informed as the seniors who began their education in the very same field of expertise many years earlier.

As long as newer collectors approach the subject with open ears and a willingness to learn, then they should never ever be offended when someone tries to teach them something that would broaden their own knowledge.

 

[RetroDan16]

That said, you can't compare a group of 10,000 first year students to the 100 seniors completing their Masters degree, They're poles apart, which is where the friction arises I think.

These are the kinds of statements that also cause friction. This is the kind of almost elitist and assumptive attitude that causes thread like this in the first place, surely?

Don't get me wrong, a huge percentage of that 10,000 (*sigh* let's use Echo again) are very new. But that very statement above suggests a gulf of intelligence which is unjust.

It would only cause 'false' offense to the handful of first year students who believed they were as informed as the seniors who began their education in the very same field of expertise many years earlier.

As long as newer collectors approach the subject with open ears and a willingness to learn, then they should never ever be offended when someone tries to teach them something that would broaden their own knowledge.

But no-one wants to teach anything, just sit here making threads mocking their wetness behind the ears. That's my whole point. Those new to this hobby would very likely welcome such advice - how do we think they find these groups, most of which are closed ones, in the first place.

As it is, I guess I'll never convince old school forum users otherwise.

 

[edd_jedi]

Does 'Today on Facebook' ever mention swfuk's own Facebook group?

If Facebook groups really don't work the way many are saying here, why does swfuk have a group page?

If you join the group, you'll see it's there purely to have a presence. I have no intention of trying to grow it.

I can't stress enough this isn't a dick waving competition

Oh really? You might want to tell Paul that:

bye guys and happy collecting there is too much negativity in this place try and not let it take over your life,
anyone who isnt bitter about echos popularity you know where to find me!!

Im an admin on echo and we will continue to help all the many members that join on a hourly basis we must be doing something right if
so many people want to be part of echo.

Happy collecting xxx

For somebody who's been a member here for 9 years and used it as a platform to sell on for many of those years before he jumped on the Facebook bandwagon, he does a great impression of somebody who invented Star Wars collecting.

I love the way you guys have all convinced yourselves that the forum is dying and we're all jealous, you have no idea how busy this forum is. In fact you have no idea how busy "your" Facebook page is apart from the membership number. I'd bet at least 75% of your 10,000 members haven't ever posted anything. This site would have over 10k members if I didn't periodically delete all the 0 posters and countless spammers, the 4000+ you see on the members list are all active members that have posted.

As I've said before, the stats show this forum is busier than it's ever been. It's growing just like your group.

 

[Richard_H]

The problem here is that facebook is so divisive.

It is completely untrue to say that most facebook users / collectors are bellends, know little, haven't a clue, drive prices up etc etc
It is completely untrue to say that forums are superior in every way

However, it is true to say that an influx of Johnny come latelys are damaging the hobby. For whatever reason, these collectors are not in the better groups. By that I mean groups like the ones Ross etc admin. Huge credit has to go to those admins for the way the run the groups. I cannot see any reason why some of the Johnny come latelys are not interacting in those groups in the main. Yes there are a couple but not to the level we see on EB, Jabba and Yavin.

Also, for whatever reason, although it doesn't take a genius to see how a group grow exponentially in such a short space of time, EB has more than its fair share of these tools. Fine, they can keep them. I certainly wouldn't be proud to have a high membership with such a low quality of posts. And that doesn't mean sales.... I'd happily see beaters sold all day for the correct value. I had a guy correct me today as he believes mock ups are a term for recards. ****ing idiot.

There are some FB groups with a few hundred members. Most are brilliant. There are also some that are ****. There's one which had a lot of potential but one arsey admin wrecked it and nobody posts there anymore.

My point being that it depends on what you're proud of. Would you rather have a quality group with half the members, or a group with 100,000 driving up prices and giving out so much incorrect information?

Personally, if you want to take constructive criticism for EB I'd change the following:

admin worshipping - it's ****ing bollocks. How many times does some idiot post a thank you for.... well, clicking a button as someone above said. That video was embarrassing. I'd cringe if someone did something like that for Yavin. Usually it's the trouble makers who do the admin worshipping. Even if you see it as comical, tongue in cheek.... it's not. It's pathetic.

external links - James posted a link today to a beater on ebay for 90p. And got wrong! WTF! It was to prove a point about incorrect descriptions. EB will not end ebay. Nor should it.

heavy handed admin - yes, heavy handed. Not all, I've had some friendly pms but some of the reasons I've been banned for are total shitty. I also know of friends who've banned warned for next to nothing. Total BS.

celebrate the positives - EB do tremendous charity work. Absolutely first class. That's what needs to be seen.

discussions - there is little quality discussion. perhaps the admins (or invited people on a specific topic) can make threads where information is given out (someone said above a link to TIG) and then encourage everyone to read the link BEFORE posting. Turn off comments when the correct answer has been given 12 times as the 13th person clearly didn't read the above and give a wrong answer.

If I go and spend a few £ dragging a few extra thousand members over to Yavin does it make it a better group? **** no! By all means tell us what is great, but talking about numbers.... don't bother.

 

[RetroDan16]

The problem here is that facebook is so divisive.

It is completely untrue to say that most facebook users / collectors are bellends, know little, haven't a clue, drive prices up etc etc
It is completely untrue to say that forums are superior in every way

However, it is true to say that an influx of Johnny come latelys are damaging the hobby. For whatever reason, these collectors are not in the better groups. By that I mean groups like the ones Ross etc admin. Huge credit has to go to those admins for the way the run the groups. I cannot see any reason why some of the Johnny come latelys are not interacting in those groups in the main. Yes there are a couple but not to the level we see on EB, Jabba and Yavin.

Also, for whatever reason, although it doesn't take a genius to see how a group grow exponentially in such a short space of time, EB has more than its fair share of these tools. Fine, they can keep them. I certainly wouldn't be proud to have a high membership with such a low quality of posts. And that doesn't mean sales.... I'd happily see beaters sold all day for the correct value. I had a guy correct me today as he believes mock ups are a term for recards. ****ing idiot.

There are some FB groups with a few hundred members. Most are brilliant. There are also some that are ****. There's one which had a lot of potential but one arsey admin wrecked it and nobody posts there anymore.

My point being that it depends on what you're proud of. Would you rather have a quality group with half the members, or a group with 100,000 driving up prices and giving out so much incorrect information?

Personally, if you want to take constructive criticism for EB I'd change the following:

admin worshipping - it's ****ing bollocks. How many times does some idiot post a thank you for.... well, clicking a button as someone above said. That video was embarrassing. I'd cringe if someone did something like that for Yavin. Usually it's the trouble makers who do the admin worshipping. Even if you see it as comical, tongue in cheek.... it's not. It's pathetic.

external links - James posted a link today to a beater on ebay for 90p. And got wrong! WTF! It was to prove a point about incorrect descriptions. EB will not end ebay. Nor should it.

heavy handed admin - yes, heavy handed. Not all, I've had some friendly pms but some of the reasons I've been banned for are total shitty. I also know of friends who've banned warned for next to nothing. Total BS.

celebrate the positives - EB do tremendous charity work. Absolutely first class. That's what needs to be seen.

discussions - there is little quality discussion. perhaps the admins (or invited people on a specific topic) can make threads where information is given out (someone said above a link to TIG) and then encourage everyone to read the link BEFORE posting. Turn off comments when the correct answer has been given 12 times as the 13th person clearly didn't read the above and give a wrong answer.

If I go and spend a few £ dragging a few extra thousand members over to Yavin does it make it a better group? **** no! By all means tell us what is great, but talking about numbers.... don't bother.

Richard, great points. As I said again, I'm not speaking here on behalf of Echo and I'm not speaking on behalf on anyone else; admins or otherwise. You make some very valid points about both angles. One of the best points there is about discussions and quality of posts, something I know has been discussed and something I for one do try to address as and when time allows.
Also agree about numbers - while 10,000 members is a huge jump, obviously only a certain percentage of that number are regularly active. For the record, Echo hasn't spent any money to draw numbers in at any time, with the spam accounts that also request adding every day, that number would be even higher. We're as surprised as anyone at the huge jump in numbers the last few months!
I'd rather be highlighting the positives of course. The charity work has been amazing and very rewarding, last year was very satisfying.

One of the biggest things is the misinformation and something that does need addressing. Hopefully we can do something about that.

 

[tiefighterboy]

I think for the most part, the FB pages are for sales and limelighting. Everything else either gets lost or is never discussed because people are tripping over themselves to buy things (Majority of it overpriced). We have discussed all this before.....and we will obviously continue to.

 

[RetroDan16]

I think for the most part, the FB pages are for sales and limelighting. Everything else either gets lost or is never discussed because people are tripping over themselves to buy things (Majority of it overpriced). We have discussed all this before.....and we will obviously continue to.

It's something perhaps to remember that pages/groups like Echo et al are primarily selling pages.

 

[_Lee_]

It's obvious - like it or not, forums are becoming an aged platform,

Absolute bollocks. The only problem is that people need to learn how to get out and meet people and enjoy the hobby for what it is, not for what it can earn. I would love to have seen how some of these 'collectors' would have coped in the early days, when you had to do real legwork to find something. Lets not forget that handwriting and phonecalls came a long time before emails and i know because i did it.

And honestly, forums such as this would piss all over Facebook.

 

[tiefighterboy]

I think for the most part, the FB pages are for sales and limelighting. Everything else either gets lost or is never discussed because people are tripping over themselves to buy things (Majority of it overpriced). We have discussed all this before.....and we will obviously continue to.

It's something perhaps to remember that pages/groups like Echo et al are primarily selling pages.

and thus the reason the forum is different than Echo and a few other pages.

 

[plantainman]

These are the kinds of statements that also cause friction. This is the kind of almost elitist and assumptive attitude that causes thread like this in the first place, surely?

Don't get me wrong, a huge percentage of that 10,000 (*sigh* let's use Echo again) are very new. But that very statement above suggests a gulf of intelligence which is unjust.

It would only cause 'false' offense to the handful of first year students who believed they were as informed as the seniors who began their education in the very same field of expertise many years earlier.

As long as newer collectors approach the subject with open ears and a willingness to learn, then they should never ever be offended when someone tries to teach them something that would broaden their own knowledge.

But no-one wants to teach anything, just sit here making threads mocking their wetness behind the ears. That's my whole point. Those new to this hobby would very likely welcome such advice - how do we think they find these groups, most of which are closed ones, in the first place.

As it is, I guess I'll never convince old school forum users otherwise.

Simply not true. i know many more experienced collectors who would only too happily help newbies learn and expand their knowledge.

One of the first things I did on a SW FB page was try and help a guy who was limelighting a 'meccano' fett he bought which was just a taiwan CoO fett that had been modified by an unscrupulous Ebay seller. Instead of taking my knowledge on board, I had the original poster then several other newbies throw my knowledge back in my face and tell me I was wrong. It was only when I was backed up by several other experienced collectors that people realised the OP had been duped in his purchase. This could be an expensive experience if everyone made the same mistake, but that one bit of shared knowledge is supposed to help many others. Of course its lost in the ether of FB posts now never to be found. Incidentally, Another Newbie collector came onto the same thread asking what a meccano fett was and how he could spot on when compared to others, He was genuinely keen to learn, so I sent him a meccano fett free of charge from my spares box, for him to upgrade in his own time.

Also you'll notice below in my signature a link to a variants thread, which is aimed at, but not exclusively of interest to newer collectors for them to see whats out there to collect and how one figure can have many quirky different variations, and what to look for etc

So don't tell me you'll never convince 'old school' forum users from teaching not mocking newer collectors, because it simply isn't true, most true collectors are only too happy to help those genuinely in search of knowledge.

To those who want to hawk overpriced beater figures and parts or show off their latest "super rare impossible to find" last 17 figure, whilst ignoring any informed opinion put before them, Well, They can keep the FB pages all to themselves.

 

[wrighty]

I think there is a place for both forums and FB. In FB I am mainly looking for items to buy and sell, due to the exposure (large number of members) but I find the forums better in getting knowledge and information. Just my opinion and how I use both. I do admit that you can be on too many groups on FB and when you wake up in the morning there are endless posts to catch up which 99.9% is of no interest to me. For a period I did not check SWFUK at all for weeks but now I have gone back to checking it multiple times every day. 8)

 

[RetroDan16]

It's obvious - like it or not, forums are becoming an aged platform,

Absolute bollocks. The only problem is that people need to learn how to get out and meet people and enjoy the hobby for what it is, not for what it can earn. I would love to have seen how some of these 'collectors' would have coped in the early days, when you had to do real legwork to find something. Lets not forget that handwriting and phonecalls came a long time before emails and i know because i did it.

And honestly, forums such as this would piss all over Facebook.

Not bollocks at all, the forum format has been in decline for years. Forums still use html forms ffs!
The rise of the mobile and tablet as a platform has done more to cause forums to decline than the more accessible social media platforms.

Forums peaked in the mid 2000's, since then their usage has steadily lessened, there's no denying that.

 

[edd_jedi]

Not bollocks at all, the forum format has been in decline for years. Forums still use html forms ffs!
The rise of the mobile and tablet as a platform has done more to cause forums to decline than the more accessible social media platforms.

Forums peaked in the mid 2000's, since then their usage has steadily lessened, there's no denying that.

Have you even read any of my posts? The forum is NOT in decline. It is still growing in terms of monthly visitors, users etc. Rebel Scum is dying because the owner hasn't paid it any attention for a decade, the format is still perfectly valid and alive. As somebody else has said, FB will never replace forums and other types of website as it's simply not designed for anything other than throw-away chat.