So what's the protocol here?

stormcab

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Just posted in the eBay section about a 45a Palitoy Han Bespin that was bought for an absolute bargain, and now being flipped weeks later for several times the price, albeit around about what it is actually worth.

Of course this has pissed me right off, as that would have gone into mine, and many others' collections on here and kept for many years.

It has got me thinking though, if a buyer genuinely does need the money for whatever reason, and needs to sell an item they got for an absolute bargain, how should it be sold, in keeping with a true collectors spirit? At roughly the market price? Not being greedy and just adding 10-15% deposit?
 

ScruffyLookingNH

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Oddly enough I saw one of his listings last night as the username caught my attention and I must admit I had negative thoughts about him. Must have been this item I saw but didn't realise where it had come from.

Whilst I agree that it's bloody irritating to have missed out on so many of that seller's bargains, and although it rubs salt into the wound that this guy has picked up one of those bargains, I don't see that he's under any obligation to do anything other than what he wants with it. He got lucky and he'll profit from his luck.

This isn't the first time this has been discussed and it sure won't be the last. As I've said before. If it's OK for a dealer to do, why not him? Most "dealers" nowadays have no more legal standing and status than us collectors. At best they're knowledgeable and trustworthy sources of desirable collectibles. At worst their nothing more than serial flippers. This guy is under no more obligation to the wider community than a dealer is. And although it grates is certainly doesn't grate as much as all those 12 and 20 backs that sold at bargain prices on RS to a well known flipper (or does he qualify as a dealer now?) who likes to grade nice pieces then charge an obscene price. That people pay :shock: The difference is they were on a collector's forum and, therefore, no doubt sold with the belief they'd go into a collection, not be flipped. On eBay it's a free for all and an open marketplace.

I'm as gutted as any Palitoy collector to miss out on those but I don't beat myself up about it. They won't be the last bargains out there :) And to suggest that he should have bought them and sold them in for an extra £5 or £10 is a bit (no offence) bizarre :lol: That wouldn't even cover his costs on eBay. They'd still be obscene bargains, probably end up being bought by another flipper who would only do what Thai guy has done whilst subjecting this aging and fragile carded figure to another unnecessary journey.
 

itfciain

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I do wonder sometimes what sort of utopian society people believe that this hobby operates in.

Yes, it is annoying that the guy picked up something you wanted at an amazing price, and even more annoying that he put it up for sale and nearly 10 times the price he paid.... but what would you have done if you'd seen something (non-star wars related) in an open market place that 1) you didn't need but 2) you knew was massively under-priced. I would think like most you would buy it and then put it up for sale for it's true price - possibly even to fund your next Star Wars purchase

As far as I am concerned, as long as you do not deceive the seller into believing that you need something for your collection or your best friends, dad's dog in order to get a discount only to go straight out and flip it then what you do is fine with me. I have to agree with Simon that it does grate a bit when someone purchases items simply to grade them and sell for profit -this inflates the market and gives unnecessary credit to grading companies - but then you should also blame the buyers paying the obscene amounts - I saw a 90 graded loose Leia up for $900 today on FB with the tag line that one had sold on eBay for $1400 but the seller would prefer it to go to someone on FB - I bet he would - $900 for a loose figure of which there are thousands if not millions out there !

For every bargain that you pick up there will always be 100s that you miss - but really to expect people to act any differently in this hobby than they would in every day life is a bit of a stretch. Of course people will help you out - this hobby is all about building up a network of friends that have your back and will look out for you.
 

maxf

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stormcab said:
Just posted in the eBay section about a 45a Palitoy Han Bespin that was bought for an absolute bargain, and now being flipped weeks later for several times the price, albeit around about what it is actually worth.

Of course this has pissed me right off, as that would have gone into mine, and many others' collections on here and kept for many years.

It has got me thinking though, if a buyer genuinely does need the money for whatever reason, and needs to sell an item they got for an absolute bargain, how should it be sold, in keeping with a true collectors spirit? At roughly the market price? Not being greedy and just adding 10-15% deposit?

That's my Han. I'm sorry you missed out first time - some of his other figures also ended up on eBay, but you didn't feel the need to call those sellers out? Why was that?

I'm sorry you're pissed off at missing out the first time around - but that's life. Plenty of stuff I've missed out on over the years and plenty of stuff I've bought at levels above what the seller paid - as I'm sure most people have.

I've done bundles for this hobby and you obviously don't know me - I've given plenty of stuff away, sold tons to mates at exactly what I paid (or lower), donated to all sorts of causes and my contributions to RS and the archive go back to '01.

Vectis is going to be hilariously expensive on Tuesday, so I thought I'd move a few bits on to help pay for that.

Apologies if that offended you - If you'd have pm'd me for a chat id have sold it to you way cheaper.
 

maxf

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To add a little more about my 'flipping' ethics - I recently agreed a sale on something I bought a few months ago on the forum. Before I sold it, I pm'd the guy I bought it from to say I was going to sell and probably above what I paid (it was party cheap and partly increased in value) and suggested we split the 'profit'.

What a monster I am.
 

Mr-shifter

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It's very cut throat these days due to the large amounts of money that these things are commanding.

Where someone has paid an asking price for an item, I do feel it's up to them what they do with it. If someone puts an item up on eBay with too low a bin then that's there fault. It's not hard to do a bit of research. It would be different if the buyer would have bullied another collector into dropping the price as he claimed he needed an item or gone round an old ladies house to offer on a collection and undervalued it deliberately. He paid what the seller wanted. Silly seller for not doing proper research.

People have been buying and selling stuff since this hobby began. If you don't like the way someone conducts themselves best just to not deal with them anymore. I see why you are annoyed but that is life. There will be another bargain out there soon.

The economy in this game is ****ed. I recently brought a miscard sold on the forum. It was advertised at £200 and we had a deal. I thought I paid a fair market price. The next day one in far worst condition gets advertised on echo, where they did try to enforce prices, for £285. It sold for £235. The next day the seller messages me to say he had been offered £400 for the one I was buying. He had turned the deal down as he had already sold it to me but wanted to know if I wanted to sell it for £400 (making me £200+ for doing nothing). To top it all off, I was chatting to lom at farthest from and he had picked one up that week from gumtree near his parents in better condition for £70!!!! Make of that lot what you will.

One thing I did make sure of though, when the seller was offered £400, was that the seller didn't need the cash for something more important than 35 year old toys. If he's using the cash to fix his car or pay his mortgage or something like that then it all changes again.
 

steve obi wan

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maxf said:
To add a little more about my 'flipping' ethics - I recently agreed a sale on something I bought a few months ago on the forum. Before I sold it, I pm'd the guy I bought it from to say I was going to sell and probably above what I paid (it was party cheap and partly increased in value) and suggested we split the 'profit'.

What a monster I am.

Always 2 sides to the story !
 

plantainman

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stormcab said:
Just posted in the eBay section about a 45a Palitoy Han Bespin that was bought for an absolute bargain, and now being flipped weeks later for several times the price, albeit around about what it is actually worth.

Of course this has pissed me right off, as that would have gone into mine, and many others' collections on here and kept for many years.

It has got me thinking though, if a buyer genuinely does need the money for whatever reason, and needs to sell an item they got for an absolute bargain, how should it be sold, in keeping with a true collectors spirit? At roughly the market price? Not being greedy and just adding 10-15% deposit?

Everything should be sold, give or take, within 10% of market value. You would only intentionally under sell a product as a favour to a fellow, and you would only intentionally overcharge for a product if you were greedy/looking to deceive. I don't see a problem with flipping, unless as Iain points out, the original intention was to deceive before flipping.
 

Lindo

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I bought a boxed complete potf tatooine skiff for £100 which I knew was worth around £400 I needed the money so sold it, I think it is fine for people to sell for what they like regardless of how much they paid.
 

Joe

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I usually judge these things by the amounts involved. If you get lucky on eBay and buy something for £10 that's really worth £100 then you are fully entitled to sell it for the £100 it's worth when the time comes. If you buy something for £100 then try to get £200 out of it..well then that's bullshit flipping with no respect for anyone.

I think we can all agree that the £45 that Max paid for the Han was WELL below market value and even without knowing much about Palitoy prices I would have thought a figure like that would have been in the £300-400 ballpark given the rise in popularity for Palitoy stuff lately. Max's price on eBay is £335 or best offer..so yeah if it sells he'll make a decent amount of money but I think if someone wants one they would be happy to pay £275-300 in that condition..so his price is probably pretty close to reality.

The Palitoy boys should probably chime in with some info on what an "acceptable" price *should* be for this particular figure but for me it looks like a simple case of a bargain buy being sold for market value.
 

olisuds

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itfciain said:
I do wonder sometimes what sort of utopian society people believe that this hobby operates in.

Yes, it is annoying that the guy picked up something you wanted at an amazing price, and even more annoying that he put it up for sale and nearly 10 times the price he paid.... but what would you have done if you'd seen something (non-star wars related) in an open market place that 1) you didn't need but 2) you knew was massively under-priced. I would think like most you would buy it and then put it up for sale for it's true price - possibly even to fund your next Star Wars purchase

As far as I am concerned, as long as you do not deceive the seller into believing that you need something for your collection or your best friends, dad's dog in order to get a discount only to go straight out and flip it then what you do is fine with me. I have to agree with Simon that it does grate a bit when someone purchases items simply to grade them and sell for profit -this inflates the market and gives unnecessary credit to grading companies - but then you should also blame the buyers paying the obscene amounts - I saw a 90 graded loose Leia up for $900 today on FB with the tag line that one had sold on eBay for $1400 but the seller would prefer it to go to someone on FB - I bet he would - $900 for a loose figure of which there are thousands if not millions out there !

For every bargain that you pick up there will always be 100s that you miss - but really to expect people to act any differently in this hobby than they would in every day life is a bit of a stretch. Of course people will help you out - this hobby is all about building up a network of friends that have your back and will look out for you.

Couldn't agree more. Sums up my feeling precisely.
 

edd_jedi

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On a site like eBay, anything is fair game. It's dog eat dog, and if you don't hit buy it now quickly, somebody else will.

On here it is different. If I see something posted for well below asking price, I will advise the seller. You can do this on a forum because there is more time, and unless money has already changed hands there is no official transaction unlike eBay.

So on here yes I agree, let's look out for each other. But eBay is just too fast paced to try and be the good guy.

I agree with Joe, what hurts everybody are the dicks hoovering up things at market value and then trying to sell them for quadruple market value.
 

lejackal

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If Max were truly trying to tear the arse out of it he would have bought the lot and flipped everything surely???
 

Andyclarke

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I think Joe and Ed are absolutely correct. Anything on eBay is fair game, if the seller is not prepared to do the research then tough luck. Anyway surely it's better it is bought by a fellow forum member than a serial flipper and Max is a good guy who has been collecting Star Wars for longer than most on SWFUK.

An even better score than the Han Bespin was the Luke Bespin 45a for £30 which I would happily have paid £250 for. I missed out by minutes, I was tempted to offer £200 for it, but I thought good luck to whoever won it. The seller though had some strange prices. If you look now he still has stuff for sale from the same batch which is ridiculously overpriced. His pricing policy was bizarre to say the least.

I managed to snap up a ROTJ Luke Bespin MOC off him for £15 inc. postage. First of all the seller sent it in a jiffy bag!! I opened the bubble just enough to pull the Luke out (there were no weapons), upgraded my loose Luke Bespin for a mint one and stuck the cardback and semi-attached bubble back on ebay and got £32 back. Happy days :D
 

yoda

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Yeah I also feel anything on e-bay is fair game. I bought alot on e-bay myself over the years and I now realise i did pay far to much for items :(
It was my own fault I never done any research on the items and the seller's got full advantage from me.
As people start to take the collecting more serious they will stumble upon these forums. That's what happened to me and then you understand the collecting community better and the prices which I should have paid. I didn't even know this place existed until a few years ago!
I have bought a good few bits on this forum from different sellers. And found everyone of them great bloke's to deal with. I never would have managed to get as many mocs if i had stayed on e-bay :) I never really look much on e-bay now. I think if we try and look after each other on the forum the best we can with the sales and respect each other it will all run smoothly for everyone on here :)
 

stormcab

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maxf said:
To add a little more about my 'flipping' ethics - I recently agreed a sale on something I bought a few months ago on the forum. Before I sold it, I pm'd the guy I bought it from to say I was going to sell and probably above what I paid (it was party cheap and partly increased in value) and suggested we split the 'profit'.

What a monster I am.

Hey, didn't know it was a forum member/collector. I haven't seen any other of the items come for sale, especially if they weren't Palitoy. This one just caught my eye as I thought I'd seen it before.

Most people's eBay names don't correspond to their forum name, so impossible to know in most cases.

That's the reason I wanted to add in this question regarding the buying/selling ethics. I was annoyed seeing a figure I would have kept for myself sold to someone who then resold it for more, but it eventually occurred to me that firstly the person might need the money for something, and secondly, I would have no idea what to do myself if a bargain came up. ie a Star Wars item that doesn't fit my collection, I bought it, then decided to sell it on at a profit.

It appears it's unanimous that getting a bargain and selling it at fair market value is totally fine from all the other comments.

Good luck with the sale. I'll try not to be such a sour-puss next time :D
 
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