Provenance

This word is used a lot in pre production items. Especially in FS and EP. For me EP is especially dodgy, because it's just a production figure with a number and story to go with it usually from an ex-Kenner employee. My question is once this ex-Kenner employee has been proven what stops him from making a few more EPs by adding numbers to production items and slowly leaking it out? Just a thought!! :?:

Not a lot a suppose, but wasn't a lot of this stuff unearthed in the ninties when the value wasn't any think like it has got to today. The impression I get when listening to the chive cast and the interviews they have with the guys who tracked the Kenner guys down, was a lot of it was garages and atics and the sellers were glad to get shot.

I've always felt the same about EP's. I've never considered them true pre production. And like you say there's not a lot to stop a kenner employee (or dealer) adding some letters or numbers to the figure many years later to cash in. I suspect it has happened. How would you ever know!

First shots are for the most part non production. Either lacking copyright or molded / painted in non producton colours so less easy (but not impossible) to fake. Some "first shots" however that are simply unpainted but have copyright markings and molded in production colours are easily faked through stripping the paint. Years ago these were simply called unpainted production figures and were never considered first shots. Opinions seem to have changed in recent years no doubt due to increased demand and value.

Demand and value has brought the EP to the fore as the trade in first shots has dried up. Years ago first shots were as prevalent as EP's are these days and even hardcopies were relatively easy (If relatively expensive) to find.

As values increase and availability diminishes in aLL preproduction, EP's are like the Emperor's new clothes IMO.

The other guys have nailed it. Back when first shots were $200 items and EP's had no real significant value there was no need to fake anything but now that EP's are routinely traded for thousands because nothing else is available it does make you wonder if there aren't already fakes in circulation.

I think a large portion of them should be ok given the reputation of the people sourcing them but hey..for $2k a pop..the temptation has to be there doesn't it.

Interesting thing to always remember, the majority of the successful scams in this hobby have been orchestrated by people held in high regard by the community who up until then had great reputations..

Dannywhiteley said:

Demand and value has brought the EP to the fore as the trade in first shots has dried up. Years ago first shots were as prevalent as EP's are these days and even hardcopies were relatively easy (If relatively expensive) to find.

As values increase and availability diminishes in aLL preproduction, EP's are like the Emperor's new clothes IMO.

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Worth saying again

Joe said:

Interesting thing to always remember, the majority of the successful scams in this hobby have been orchestrated by people held in high regard by the community who up until then had great reputations..

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Exactly!!

I'm guaranteeing some of those EP'S (and I really dislike them) are created with a sharpie, more and more were "discovered" when they started reaching high prices, amazing what these employees would save....being so unique and all that lol.

Exactly. Why would they keep a completely standard production figure with writing on the feet. Nonsense. They would be tossed or given to kids to play with.