Wow - this is shocking.

Discuss vintage Kenner and Palitoy Star Wars toys from the 1977-1985 era.
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_Lee_
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Wow - this is shocking.

Post by _Lee_ »

If true, this is absolutely nuts.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EMtTq3phYv0&t=36s

Wow.
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Re: Wow - this is shocking.

Post by indianawars »

I watched this during my shift last night, and have to agree with him - live and and let live, ffs. Certainly no need for echo base to act the way they have/did. And this is why I'm no member of any FB groups.
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Re: Wow - this is shocking.

Post by StarWarsFan »

Blimey, watched this last night, sad whats happened to collecting. :(
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http://www.starwarsforum.co.uk/viewtopi ... 22&t=26702

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Re: Wow - this is shocking.

Post by _Lee_ »

Glad it's not just me. I think that is awful treatment.

I bailed on the hobby a while ago because there are too many self appointed experts who deem themselves the collecting Police. If someone said that to me I would tell them to fuck right off. Too many keyboard tough guys and basement virgins in the hobby now.

It makes me sick to be honest. I miss the good old days.
Vintage toys ,prop and autograph collector and Luton Town FC supporter.
Also try to play guitar with the guy in my avatar as an inspiration!
JASON BECKER STILL THE BEST EVER AND STILL HERE DESPITE A.L.S.
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_Lee_
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Re: Wow - this is shocking.

Post by _Lee_ »

And to add, inever have and never will have FB or any other such platforms. They are the biggest invasion of privacy both wanted and unwanted.
Vintage toys ,prop and autograph collector and Luton Town FC supporter.
Also try to play guitar with the guy in my avatar as an inspiration!
JASON BECKER STILL THE BEST EVER AND STILL HERE DESPITE A.L.S.
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Re: Wow - this is shocking.

Post by StarWarsFan »

_Lee_ wrote:
Fri Jan 01, 2021 4:21 pm
And to add, inever have and never will have FB or any other such platforms. They are the biggest invasion of privacy both wanted and unwanted.
Same here mate, I fucking hate facebook, has caused that many problems over the years. People keep saying to me join facebook so you can join echo. My words are not even Star Wars can get me on there. Also can never understand why people what to put their lives on there and all this must have 100000 "friends". I will never know.
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http://www.starwarsforum.co.uk/viewtopi ... 22&t=26702

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Re: Wow - this is shocking.

Post by StarWarsFan »

_Lee_ wrote:
Fri Jan 01, 2021 4:19 pm
Glad it's not just me. I think that is awful treatment.

I bailed on the hobby a while ago because there are too many self appointed experts who deem themselves the collecting Police. If someone said that to me I would tell them to fuck right off. Too many keyboard tough guys and basement virgins in the hobby now.

It makes me sick to be honest. I miss the good old days.
TBH i hardly collect SW these days sick of the trouble it has caused, not just with fakes but some dealers and collectors i've encountered have been horrible.
My feedback:
http://www.starwarsforum.co.uk/viewtopi ... 22&t=26702

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Re: Wow - this is shocking.

Post by Palifan »

I'm glad someone posted this up as I also watched it last night and found the whole thing really interesting. I must admit that I've found Michael to be a angry of late, which is a shame to see as he should just get back to enjoying toys and not get so worked up at times but I felt he really hit it out of the park with this one.

Also I found the whole presentation really amusing with all of the clips he inserted into the video and although I felt it could have been a little shorter I could see that there was a lot to cover here.

A great video to end the year on and it is quite an eyeopener to how things have gone over time. Is Stan Solo really destroying the hobby or just helping some people own items that they could maybe never afford to own? It's a whole can of worms that question and I guess it's each to their own and as long as things are labelled correctly then you hope it doesn't harm that much (although I can see how it can in the wrong hands). For me educating yourself about what you're buying is your best bet and quite often I find that to be the most interesting part about owning an item.

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Re: Wow - this is shocking.

Post by jayums »

I agree, Ian. - michael has a genuine passion for the toys and collecting, and a lot of his videos are great - he certainly should be able to collect what and how he likes without getting abuse . If you don't like his channel - don't watch it! If you don't like repro - don't buy it !

I can see why long time collectors running groups don't want the same old repro arguments over and over again clogging up the group chat, but on the other hand, I also think that is a very closed shop, head firmly buried in the sand, attitude. We are where we are : in an era where it's increasingly possible to accurately reproduce the figures and accessories, to meet demand that is out there. There is far too much hypocrisy - If you are a staunch anti-repro collector who dictates what others should do whilst happily flogging leia blasters for 70+ quid a pop and flipping stuff for a quick profit, you shouldn't be surprised when high quality reproductions turn up. These two things are not unrelated.
Last edited by jayums on Fri Jan 01, 2021 9:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Wow - this is shocking.

Post by Sundancer Squadron »

I do enjoy his videos as its not just focus purely on SW, the two of them have done a ton for the collecting community. I can sense the irritation in him is increasing and understandably so, he was targeted by another so called collector that brought toxicity to a whole new level. Have a look at the whole sail barge debacle, fortunate enough to of met him briefly and hes genuine as is his love and enthusiasm for collecting toys and information often overlooked by others.
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Re: Wow - this is shocking.

Post by theforceuk »

Amazing how some pricks can make this hobby so complicated. Great thread/post. Stay positive.
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Re: Wow - this is shocking.

Post by StarWarsFan »

Sundancer Squadron wrote:
Fri Jan 01, 2021 8:47 pm
I do enjoy his videos as its not just focus purely on SW, the two of them have done a ton for the collecting community. I can sense the irritation in him is increasing and understandably so, he was targeted by another so called collector that brought toxicity to a whole new level. Have a look at the whole sail barge debacle, fortunate enough to of met him briefly and hes genuine as is his love and enthusiasm for collecting toys and information often overlooked by others.
Yer saw the videos on the Sail Barge. The was so horrible to Mike, no need for it.
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http://www.starwarsforum.co.uk/viewtopi ... 22&t=26702

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Re: Wow - this is shocking.

Post by edd_jedi »

An interesting watch, I think there are valid points on both sides. Do some collectors take things too far? Absolutely, and things like death threats (even in jest) should not be tolerated. However completely denying that reproductions can have *any* downsides is also ridiculous, and some of the comparisons made in the video are silly - of course vintage cars don't have original era tyres, they have long since perished, wheras authentic action figure accessories for the most part have not. I think most collectors are open to replacing perishable things like Yoda's swamp foam, because like car tyres sourcing an original is impossible.

So I agree some of the anti repro lot should tone it down a bit (I wasn't aware of most of the things in this video) but equally the pro repro guys have to concede that their actions have some ethical and financial consequences. What he fails to acknowledge in the video is that Star Wars is by far the most 'mature' action figure collecting market, yes collectors of some other toy lines are fine with repros (I see it all the time in the MASK groups) but those collectors are making all the same mistakes now that SW collectors made 20 years ago, and he's kidding himself if he thinks at some point they also won't start questioning repros.
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Re: Wow - this is shocking.

Post by cracatilla »

Watched this and thought 'what a bunch of wankers!'
I try not to have any repros in my collection but understand that others will but it doesn't mean it's wrong.

Watched the videos about the sail barge and was well impressed that he was willing to fly half way round to world to deliver it to its rightful owner and also stick it to his detractors!!!

Yet another reason for me not to join Facebook

Edd Good point about the 'less' mature figures
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Re: Wow - this is shocking.

Post by _Lee_ »

I couldn't beleive the bit where he says that some collectors were posing naked with star wars toys covering their private parts - WTF??

The sad thing about all of this is the conflict it is bringing into the hobby. I remember in the late 90s and early 2000s that the internet was a breath of fresh air into the hobby because it enabled networking and enabled friendships to be built. Fast forward to now and it is without doubt the worst thing ever to happen, not only in this hobby but in everyday life. Facebook has probably ended more friendships ,marriages and partnerships that anything else in history.

Regarding.collecting, many of these self appointed experts havent got a clue, and many seem to put themselves on a pedestal. Trust me, there are probably.a handful that have been there since the start and most of the others see it as an ego trip to make themselves look better. I can assure you now that most people know who these idiots are because its blatantly obvious they are doing it for personal gain. I also believe that people dont mean because of the hobby, it's because it affects their personal collection and they see repros as damaging their investments.

Supply and demand is another issue. It's a known fact that most kids lost the accessories with their figures pretty much straight away because they were meant as toys. Fast forward to now and millions of figures have no original accessories, and the prices people are asking for some is ridiculous. I have no issues with some people ( and there are more than you would think) that buy repro purely because of this. If other collecting areas accept them, why cant Star Wars?? The answer is that many vintage Star Wars collectors think of themselves as elite and that it is the pinnacle of ant toy collecting.

Regarding the replica carded figures etc, if someone wants to buy a replica MOC Trilogo R2D2 Pop up for £40 rather than £500 minimum for a real one then to some it's a no brainer. I have seen one of the R2 Trilogo and they are pretty much bang on, plus they are stamped on the rear of the card with SLC. IMO this guy is helping many collectors to realise a dream on a budget and isnt out to hurt the hobby. Its just that some become angry because in their own mental thinking, they beleive they should be asked about these and the damage they do to 'Their'hobby.

Trust me , we need to rid the hobby of these people. It's not the repros that are bringing this hobby down, but the selfish, ignorant an arrogant twats who deem themselves fit to criticise anyone and anything. Money and greed is a huge factor and too many think they are the big boys because they have deep pockets. Well I've probably owned more vintage, prototypes etc than they ever will.

Dont ever let anyone tell you what to collect or how to do it. Collect for you and have the balls to stand up and tell these arseholes to fuck off.
Vintage toys ,prop and autograph collector and Luton Town FC supporter.
Also try to play guitar with the guy in my avatar as an inspiration!
JASON BECKER STILL THE BEST EVER AND STILL HERE DESPITE A.L.S.
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