Wow - this is shocking.

Discuss vintage Kenner and Palitoy Star Wars toys from the 1977-1985 era.
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DarthStanley
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Re: Wow - this is shocking.

Post by DarthStanley »

I've no time for repro (especially when people sell it as original) & I would never have it in my collection but if people want to buy it who can't afford or don't want to pay the prices for original vintage then who I am to tell someone how to collect?,it's NONE of my business & I would NEVER do it.

I'm a member of a few Facebook groups but rarely interact & really only use it for buying & selling but the way some of those people lose their minds over repro items is quite ridiculous,they're little pieces of plastic ffs & there's more important things going on in the world right now to worry about.

It really is a pack mentality & is usually started by an admin or one of the regular more established members & then everyone else piles in.Last year I saw one guy ask about repro & one of the admins replied,instead of just saying we don't have repro on this group,he replied with a "fuck you gif".There's a lot of unhinged people about & one day it'll end it really badly for one of them (especially the way some of the admin on those groups speak to people). :roll:

Unfortunately repro VSW items have been around since the 90's & whether we like it or not,they aren't going away.
Last edited by DarthStanley on Sat Jan 02, 2021 9:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Wow - this is shocking.

Post by Cazza »

I despise repro and would never knowingly buy it or keep it in my collection. I would ALWAYS advise against it, for the many reasons that we all know already. HOWEVER, as above, who am I to dictate to others how to collect? £150 for a pop-up saber?!!! You can see why people buy repro stuff.

There is a lot of 'Gatekeeping' in the SW communities, whether it's over-the-top repro hate or ridiculously severe anti-Kathleen/Disney sentiments. It's rather sad and anyone looking in from the outside must think it's all pretty unhinged and bizarre, especially with the real issues that have hit us all in 2020. The sheer hatred generated and fueled in the FB groups is astonishing. Some of the admins/mods on the groups are given god-like status and the sycophants worship the ground they walk on, lapping up everything they say without question. There are so many who just blindly follow, just so they can try to be part of the 'it' crowd. When they smell blood, It's often like a pack of wolves all going in for the kill... all over toys and films :roll:

The worst thing about repro though, is the incredibly annoying use of the word 'Repo' instead. Boy, that gets right on my toot :lol:
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UKS
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Re: Wow - this is shocking.

Post by UKS »

I think if you love the thing for its value to you rather than its value to others... then you are fine.

If SW is an investment, then this type of thing crushes that a bit.

I personally don't go for repro - yet I love TTs!

So I guess there is a line for everyone and I suppose we have should accept that. Transformers have had huge amounts of bootlegs and reissues and it does suppress prices but doesn't seem to suppress the fan community.
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Re: Wow - this is shocking.

Post by Robstyley »

That’s interesting. It exposes some quite shocking, not even shocking but unpleasant, dickhead behaviour. And some of it I’d take with a pinch of salt to be honest. It sounds like grown men arguing and being arseholes about mass produced little pieces of plastic. In any hobby people get passionate and can take things very seriously. It’s crazy really when you think how abusive people can get about old toys. I don’t think this is even about what your opinion is, it’s about people trying to push their opinion and will on others and being judgemental.

I don’t like reproduction accessories or own any fake MOC’s, that’s my choice. In my loose figure cabinet it’s all legit. But a few figures have the wrong or no accessory because I won’t pay £100+ for one or have a repro. In my other cabinet two Stormtroopers have modern blasters, a Han has a snapped AT-AT Driver rifle made into a blaster, a Boba Fett has a G.I Joe gun that looks like it should be Boba Fetts blaster..! It’s my collection, I can do as I please and I like a bit of different stuff going on. If someone wants repro, even if I don’t like it or agree with it it’s their choice. I’ve been quite vocal in the past about repros and repainting figures etc but the hobby has changed and the influx of collectors and lack of supply can only inevitably result in people finding ways to meet that demand. Maybe we do need to chill out a bit.
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Re: Wow - this is shocking.

Post by jayums »

If ever you want to illustrate the difference between this forum and Facebook groups, this thread is it.
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TheJabbaWookie
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Re: Wow - this is shocking.

Post by TheJabbaWookie »

Firstly let me say I’m an admin on one of the Jabba’s groups on Facebook. Secondly, I find the rules and regulations laid down by Echo over the top which is why I gravitate towards Jabba’s. JP who runs TIG can be hot headed and certainly doesn’t mince his words when he’s arguing about something he’s passionate about. And well there’s no two ways about it, the IC and it’s founder certainly divide the Star Wars collecting community.

I certainly don’t see eye to eye with a lot of them but the anti repro stance that they fight for when it comes to SLC, Stan Solo and TFSB gets my thumbs up every time.

Chris Smith is a crook. He’s done time for counterfeit goods in the past. I was on the fringes of Jabba’s when those Leia blasters first hit the scene and all the crap Retroblasting put in that video about Chris Smith thinking they were genuine was bullshit.

Yes he was talking to one of the TIG guys but everything about the so-called discovery was setting alarm bells ringing in the community.

It soon became clear that it was a new major player in the repro community and if you think Smithlord Creations were in it for the good of the fans who can’t afford originals ask yourself why they were willing to make up a story about having a friend of a son of a former Palitoy worker who discovered a box of blasters, and selling them on as originals at up to £40 a blaster. I bought one of them blasters very early on. They were better than anything we’d seen at the time. If that story was true or if he even thought he was the one conned ask yourself why did he then go in to make reproductions of all the other major blasters and weapons since?

I understand the argument about reproduction for people who haven’t got the funds to facilitate the purchase of a 100% original collection and I respect that. But kit them out with the easily identifiable grey or blue weapons from the 90s that sink like a lead balloon. Or clearly mark them to make them easily identifiable. Don’t make something so god damn close to the original. There’s only one reason to do that and it’s to fool the collector.

And here in lies the problem and is the reason that the Retroblasting guy and other pro-repro guys totally miss the point. Even if these reproductions are sold with honourable intentions initially (and here I’m giving a massive fuck off benefit of doubt) they end up bought by others intentionally or unintentionally and sold on as genuine at original market prices. It totally fucks over the collector who wants to buy original.

And if you think it’s all for the benefit of the hard up collector and not to line their pockets ask yourself why they didn’t just stop at reproducing the expensive Blasters like the Leia, palace, Jawa and Endor blaster and why they are now producing exact replicas of loads of the cheapest weapons on the market. I can buy an original for the same price or cheaper then they’re selling them.

The biggest travesty is that there’s clearly a lot of talent at Stan Solo. A lot of people in my circle of friendship wishe they had just turned their hands to customisation. They started off with Han Stormtrooper. Why didn’t they concentrate on producing other desirable unproduced figures from the OT like Tarkin, Rebel Fleet Trooper... instead of producing reproductions of the last 17 and Blue Snag?
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grinchy
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Re: Wow - this is shocking.

Post by grinchy »

I watched the video, shocking the way some people react to this hobby, it should be a fun thing that amuses you, not a bad headache inducing trip.
I'll collect how i like, i don't tell others how to collect, so expect the same treatment, live and let live.
I use the facebook groups for buying and selling, but i agree the rules can be a bit much sometimes
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Robstyley
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Re: Wow - this is shocking.

Post by Robstyley »

You make some good points there @TheJabbaWookie and I absolutely agree anyone making accurate repros to deliberately fool collectors and line their own pockets are bang out of order and should be called out. It comes down to honesty and integrity which some don’t have.

There’s two separate issues here though - repros themselves and whether they are identifiable, or being released into the market to fool people and make money.
- the way admins and collectors treat people regarding repros. It’s fine to say we don’t hock repro here but bullying and being abusive is not cool.
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Re: Wow - this is shocking.

Post by jayums »

Robstyley wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 9:29 am
You make some good points there @TheJabbaWookie and I absolutely agree anyone making accurate repros to deliberately fool collectors and line their own pockets are bang out of order and should be called out. It comes down to honesty and integrity which some don’t have.

There’s two separate issues here though - repros themselves and whether they are identifiable, or being released into the market to fool people and make money.
- the way admins and collectors treat people regarding repros. It’s fine to say we don’t hock repro here but bullying and being abusive is not cool.
I would agree that the issue isn't about whether Chris Smith is dodgy or retreading arguments about repro, but equally you can always leave groups if you don't like the way they operate. To me the issue here is that *some* people seem to think that the rules of their own groups apply to other collectors outside of their groups. When this gets to the stage of encouraging or in some cases orchestrating abuse of people doing their own thing, whether you like it or not, it has gone way too far imo
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Re: Wow - this is shocking.

Post by AndyPreston »

There's a very easy answer to the repro question and that is to make them very easily identifiable - either by colour or moulding. If the repro makers stuck to that, and making customs of figures and other toys that never existed, then I think most if not all of the conflict would go away and they would be accepted throughout the hobby.

Repro's that are indistinguishable from the real thing, and that float, are made with just one purpose - to deceive. They are a massive problem for our hobby.

There are those on both sides of the debate that need to take a look at themselves and their behaviour, but until the repro makers stop making near perfect replicas, then I know which side I believe in.
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UKS
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Re: Wow - this is shocking.

Post by UKS »

Having now watched the Retroblast video half way through then stopped - Hmmm. He is very disingenuous in it quite a few times. Misrepresenting peoples opinions and posting private messages all over the place. And also using very violent and emotive language demonising the anti-repro groups. I'm afraid his claims that facebook groups are somehow strong union-style communities, severely undermines his entire argument, if you were or are a member of any FB groups! And his Leia Blaster argument is profoundly wrong. Fraudsters famously want provenience and legitimacy to their fraud. For evidence of that feel free to see Hitlers Diaries, and many art based fraud.

I think if he thought about it in less childishly and emotionally, he would realise that anti-repro people have a legitimate point of view and perhaps help address their concerns.

For instance, repro is inexorably linked with fraud. He even admits that in the video and basically says Caveat Emptor. What people like him could do, is push for a simple way to differeniate original from reproduction.

Pro-repro people should have no issue with differentiation.

Alas commericals from both sides can interfere. If you have spent large amounts of money on a collection (or inventory as a store) you are legitimately worried about a collapse in that value. Scarcity does increase value.

If you are a reproduction person, you would probably want a way to keep the valiue of your work high. There is a risk of a large element of fraud or misrepresentation in that.

With the consuming fans stuck in the middle!

There is a place for a discussion on this - Especially as plastic ages out and toys actually disintegrate. Those bubbles are ALL coming off those cards at some point - Maybe in our lifetimes - However this retroblasting person should be nowhere near that conversation.

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Michael Sith
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Re: Wow - this is shocking.

Post by Michael Sith »

Repro is a matter of personal choice, if you don’t want repro then don’t buy it! Simple
We are naive if we think repro will not go away, if there is a market for something it will be produced and sold.
Can we rid the world of morons, nope we can’t, the world is full of idiots, but also full of genuine people as well.
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db94
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Re: Wow - this is shocking.

Post by db94 »

I used to love RB videos but he's just turned into an absolute drama queen.

I tried watching the video but as soon as he started posting up screenshots of private conversations and making ridiculous assumptions based on other people's comments I bailed.

This hobby is full of unnecessary drama due to people who depend on social media either for their income or their personal fix.

I want my online time to be fun - I sit and listen to generation Skywalker as I enjoy my collection. I don't want to listen to a grown man try and generate more hits for his channel through drama.

I don't have any repro in my collection and like many I'm strongly anti repro because of the damage it can cause to the hobby I love but it's a completely personal thing now - wouldn't dream of judging anyone that buys it. I thought we might stop it being produced through educating others to the long term issues, but that boat has sailed.

We collect toys for fun, nostalgia, collecting highs when we find something we really want, interaction with like minded folk, community spirit - I just avoid anything I don't enjoy, my spare time is too precious to waste on nonsense.
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Re: Wow - this is shocking.

Post by Clawrence »

I only collect genuine and have no Repro accessories in my collection, that’s my choice. I have no problem with easily identified Repro i.e sinking in water etc. But the problem is that Repro manufacturing has become more sophisticated over the years. Fakes are not only imitating the looks of their genuine counterparts more faithfully but also their behaviours, this for me is where the problem lies.
TIG was always the place to go for updates and regularly kept us in the know on the latest wave of Repro, but updates have been less of late, and lately I bet it’s been a major headache to keep on top of it.

The question I ask is are any of how long will it be until they make it through AFA’s/UKG grading process?
If they can't spot them what chance do we have.
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TheJabbaWookie
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Re: Wow - this is shocking.

Post by TheJabbaWookie »

TIG is out of date now unfortunately. Look out for the new Variant Villains website later this year, which will have up-to-date information on COOs, weapon variants and reproductions, and the start of figure focus guides. A shit load of work is going into that.
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