Is my AFA graded ESB Tie Fighter Pilot... a Toy Toni?!?

Discuss vintage Kenner and Palitoy Star Wars toys from the 1977-1985 era.
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olisuds
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Re: Is my AFA graded ESB Tie Fighter Pilot... a Toy Toni?!?

Post by olisuds »

Grant_C wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 1:41 am
olisuds wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 1:43 pm
Grant_C wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:06 am
Yes it is.

The bubble is incorrect
Hi Grant, when you say the bubble is incorrect, do you mean because there is no bubble number? Do you know what bubble number the TFP should be?
I'll have to check.

The bubble is to small- perhaps a Luke Hoth bubble- i cant remember. The proper bubble has more room and a decent gap between the top of the head and top of bubble- i'll take photos tomorrow
I'm not convinced that bubble type and bubble numbers are a 100% reliable way to determine authenticity. I tend to go by the look of the seal and indentation on the back of the card and of course anything with a suspiciously high grade on the bubble and card.

I use to have a 45b TFP with a twin stem bubble that was an obvious TT as the bubble seal looked cloudy/patchy as if it had been glued down and it was case fresh.

Last year I bought a 45b TFP from Vectis that came from a Palitoy employee. It had a single stem bubble with no bubble number. Seal looks good and clear, it has an indentation in the card back but obviously not an 85/90 grade.
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Re: Is my AFA graded ESB Tie Fighter Pilot... a Toy Toni?!?

Post by jayums »

edd_jedi wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 8:42 pm
jayums wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:35 pm
Did Tony Tony's ever suss out how to do the waffle seal ?
No, I don't think his iron had that setting :)
:) that's what I was alluding too ! Even in those photos the seal looks melty/gluey and done in a really uneven way (and no waffle pattern!). Didn't this ring any alarm bells with graders at the time having all these amazing cards/bubbles with weird / crap looking seals ?
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Re: Is my AFA graded ESB Tie Fighter Pilot... a Toy Toni?!?

Post by olisuds »

hanskywalker wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 7:00 pm
Hello everyone

I was looking through some of my old carded figures today and came across this Tie Fighter Pilot.

I know a bit about the Toy Toni thing now, but I can't imagine I knew about it whenever I purchased this! Looking at it today, I've a feeling it must be a bit dodgy! :D

Unfortunately I've no idea when or where I purchased it, as it was a long time ago. I thought I'd just share it with you guys, cause I find all this sort of craziness pretty interesting! 8)

I still love it though, for pure nostalgia reasons if nothing else!
Could you confirm the number on bottom right of bubble? I can’t see one but just wanted to check.
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Re: Is my AFA graded ESB Tie Fighter Pilot... a Toy Toni?!?

Post by Cazza »

jayums wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 10:17 pm
edd_jedi wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 8:42 pm
jayums wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:35 pm
Did Tony Tony's ever suss out how to do the waffle seal ?
No, I don't think his iron had that setting :)
:) that's what I was alluding too ! Even in those photos the seal looks melty/gluey and done in a really uneven way (and no waffle pattern!). Didn't this ring any alarm bells with graders at the time having all these amazing cards/bubbles with weird / crap looking seals ?
Waffle pattern isn't a clear indicator, as there are plenty of genuine slick sealed MOCs out there. If it has waffle, it's definitely not a Toni, however, slick seal doesn't mean it definitely is a Toni either. For me, the press on the back is the best indicator.
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Re: Is my AFA graded ESB Tie Fighter Pilot... a Toy Toni?!?

Post by edd_jedi »

Yes agree with the above, and bubble placement is a big one too. Toni always centered his bubbles perfectly over the racetrack, factory sealed bubbles are almost never like that. For example here's my Star Destroyer Commander, look how far to the left it is compared to the TIE Pilot in the original post:
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Re: Is my AFA graded ESB Tie Fighter Pilot... a Toy Toni?!?

Post by olisuds »

Cazza wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:54 am
jayums wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 10:17 pm
edd_jedi wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 8:42 pm


No, I don't think his iron had that setting :)
:) that's what I was alluding too ! Even in those photos the seal looks melty/gluey and done in a really uneven way (and no waffle pattern!). Didn't this ring any alarm bells with graders at the time having all these amazing cards/bubbles with weird / crap looking seals ?
Waffle pattern isn't a clear indicator, as there are plenty of genuine slick sealed MOCs out there. If it has waffle, it's definitely not a Toni, however, slick seal doesn't mean it definitely is a Toni either. For me, the press on the back is the best indicator.
There are no waffle patterns on 45b MOCs they are all slick sealed. There is however quite a noticeable difference between the genuine ones which are really pressed on to the card and clear and the TT ones which are quite patchy.
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Re: Is my AFA graded ESB Tie Fighter Pilot... a Toy Toni?!?

Post by olisuds »

edd_jedi wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:58 am
Yes agree with the above, and bubble placement is a big one too. Toni always centered his bubbles perfectly over the racetrack, factory sealed bubbles are almost never like that. For example here's my Star Destroyer Commander, look how far to the left it is compared to the TIE Pilot in the original post:

IMG_7155.JPG
Yeah that's a big "tell". I remember buying a whole load of UKG acrylic cases for 65 backs I had bought from Toni and none of them fitted because the bubble was too far over to the side of the card. It was a real head scratcher at the time but now of course it all seems obvious :D
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Re: Is my AFA graded ESB Tie Fighter Pilot... a Toy Toni?!?

Post by hanskywalker »

Can I ask what would be a press indicator? I can't seem to find any press marks at all. Perhaps there is a slight rectangular indent, the size of the bubble, on the back - as if the entire bubble has been pushed into the card.


I do see these little tiny circles marks around the perimeter of bubble, about 6 of them - two at the bottom, two near the middle and two near the top.

No iron marks though!

I think it just looks far too minty to be anything other than a TT - too perfect. Like someone said above, the factory cards are never usually this spot on with their placement. lol.
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Re: Is my AFA graded ESB Tie Fighter Pilot... a Toy Toni?!?

Post by Grant_C »

I cant get my versions out, but it is a toytoni.

There is every possibility that it was factory sealed, but its the same bubble as Toni used on all of his post factory seals.

The original Palitoy FP bubble is larger than the one Toni used.

Both Palitoy and Toytoni came in single stem and double stem bubbles.

I have matched this with cardbacks.

Here's my post from years ago

viewtopic.php?t=28814
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Re: Is my AFA graded ESB Tie Fighter Pilot... a Toy Toni?!?

Post by hanskywalker »

Ah thanks :)
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