Important info on Potential Toy Toni carded figure scam.

Information on variations, weapons, cleaning and repair etc
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Re: Important info on Potential Toy Toni carded figure scam.

Post by wbobafett »

...a Stormtrooper and I think a Dengar (Clipper).

JC assumed these are repro blisters.


@ Sppons: Sorry mate....I am confusing a lot of my pics now. If yours is legit üplease do a messurement. Would be interesting how far originaly might be off!

Thanks

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Re: Important info on Potential Toy Toni carded figure scam.

Post by spoons »

wbobafett wrote:...a Stormtrooper and I think a Dengar (Clipper).

JC assumed these are repro blisters.


@ Sppons: Sorry mate....I am confusing a lot of my pics now. If yours is legit üplease do a messurement. Would be interesting how far originaly might be off!

Thanks

Wolff
Hi Wolff

Thanks for all your help and enjoy time with the family.

I've made my measurements from MOCs and the numbers match Jason's open cards well - including the suspected TTs. The GM are AFA so harder to measure.

I've also added a third measurement to help with a bubble database - width of shell holding figure.

Palitoy 45b

Bossk - 03 thin line waffle single stem 62mm (shell 36mm), gap 38mm
Han Hoth - clear seal double stem 65mm (shell 41mm), gap 35mm

Both of these have price sticker evidence and shelf wear

GM ESB 45 backs

Han Hoth - 03 thin line waffle single stem 62mm (shell 36mm), gap 38mm
Stormtrooper - clear seal double stem (with dimples) 57mm (shell 34mm), gap 34mm

The Han has the faintest evidence for sticker residue and I believe the Stormtrooper to be a TT fake with a repro bubble. Despite having the narrowest gap to centre point the narrow bubble when compared to the UK Han is suspicious, particularly in light of the dimples
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Re: Important info on Potential Toy Toni carded figure scam.

Post by Djbighair »

Was having a look through my palitoy cards and surprisingly have very few, which surprised me.

On the jedi card backs is there any type that seems to be linked to most figures, 45 backs (roj1) or 65 (roj/2) then any with the Hn after the bracketed code?



Are there other figures that have come to light that aren't on the list on page 1 referencing a stock check, sales mandate?

Must admit I am a little dubious over my Leia hoth General Mills, maybe a boba roj 1 and a roj1 atat commander.

Thanks
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Re: Important info on Potential Toy Toni carded figure scam.

Post by mr_palitoy »

Have published my initial write up of Toy Toni along with matrix of affected figure/card combinations on my palitoy cardback guide:-

http://www.freewebs.com/mrpalitoy/

In December 2013 Antoni Emchowicz aka Toy Toni, a long time Palitoy and German MOC toy dealer, was found to have been assembling MOC from a large stock of unused cardbacks and bubbles bought after the Palitoy factory closed. The matrix below is a categorisation of the affected figure/cardback combinations. This matrix is a guide, as the sales list that listed the number of unused cardbacks he bought was not well categorised and missing for some figures. Information from the AFA population report and cards that have been for sale on toytoni.com have also been factored into making this breakdown more accurate. He has been assembling MOCs for a long time and AFA have graded hundreds of them over the last 20 years. There are also a few unused cardbacks in circulation which AFA currently list as proof cards. The numbers listed are the number of unused cardbacks shown on the sales list, or the total on the AFA population report if the figure was missing from the list.

Figure/Cardback 45B 45C 65A/B/C 65D
Luke Skywalker 885
Chewbacca 66* 143
Darth Vader 29+
Han Solo 47
Death Star Droid 417
Imperial Stormtrooper (Hoth Battle Gear) 1126
Bossk (Bounty Hunter) 500*
Luke Skywalker (Bespin Fatigues) 132
Boba Fett 482
Yoda 12
Lobot 467
AT-AT Driver 39
2-1B 301
C-3PO (Removeable Limbs) 1234
Luke Skywalker (Hoth Battle Gear) 105
AT-AT Commander 27
(Twin-Pod) Cloud Car Pilot 8
Imperial TIE Fighter Pilot 264
Princess Leia Organa (Boushh Disguise) 30
Gamorrean Guard 31
Logray (Ewok Medicine Man) 81
Squid Head 60
Lando Calrissian (Skiff Guard Disguise) 86

*Number quoted is a 50/50 split between Palitoy and German cardbacks as large quantities of mint MOCs exist for both and both were for sale on toytoni.com
+Not on the list, but a used cardback with iron marks was purchased directly from Toy Toni, figure quoted is from AFA population report

Total number of affected cards:- 6572

Click on this link to download the matrix as an Excel spreadsheet:- toytonimatrix.xlsx

If you have a very mint card with a pristine bubble on a figure/cardback above, it is highly likely that it originated from Toy Toni. Efforts are being made by the collecting community to better spot these by examining printing flaws on the cards, bubble types, bubble placement, how the seals look and looking for figures with wear and incorrect COO on them. The most up to date information on spotting these can be found on the collecting forums listed below. There are many more figure variations on affected figures than there should be. Boba Fett has at least 3 variations listed by AFA that are likely to be down to Toy Toni. Also, odd bubble cardback combinations on the affected cardbacks are likely to be down to Toy Toni. Boba Fett with a single stem bubble on a 45C cardback for example.

cheers Jason
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Re: Important info on Potential Toy Toni carded figure scam.

Post by mr_palitoy »

Have added further Toy Toni details on the 45B, 45C, 65A, 65B, 65C and 65D pages.

http://www.freewebs.com/mrpalitoy/esb45bcardback.htm

http://www.freewebs.com/mrpalitoy/rotj45ccardback.htm

http://www.freewebs.com/mrpalitoy/rotj65acardback.htm

http://www.freewebs.com/mrpalitoy/rotj65bcardback.htm

http://www.freewebs.com/mrpalitoy/rotj65ccardback.htm

http://www.freewebs.com/mrpalitoy/rotj65dcardback.htm

The update on the last link shows my Darth Vader with iron marks and the easy red dot tell for C-3PO Removable Limbs.

cheers Jason
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Want Palitoy ESB 45A Back (Blue Circle Offer) 2-1B MOC and Palitoy ESB 30B cardbacks for first 12 figures

Mr Palitoy's Cardback Guide
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Re: Important info on Potential Toy Toni carded figure scam.

Post by spoons »

Jason, your work is very much appreciated in all this but I think some of your comments are too alarmist.

You state that the PBP Han Hoths originate from Toni but all examples I've seen display loads of shelf wear and many are packed with PBP stormtrooper blasters - not signs that you associate with TT

I'm sure the same will be true for other characters.

The photo of the TIE pilot on your 45b page has what looks to be a factory sealed 03 bubble. Surely some reference needs to made to the fact that TT did also buy sealed examples?
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Re: Important info on Potential Toy Toni carded figure scam.

Post by mr_palitoy »

spoons wrote:Jason, your work is very much appreciated in all this but I think some of your comments are too alarmist.

You state that the PBP Han Hoths originate from Toni but all examples I've seen display loads of shelf wear and many are packed with PBP stormtrooper blasters - not signs that you associate with TT

I'm sure the same will be true for other characters.

The photo of the TIE pilot on your 45b page has what looks to be a factory sealed 03 bubble. Surely some reference needs to made to the fact that TT did also buy sealed examples?
Have toned/down removed those sections as I bow to your COO knowledge on Han Hoth and the bubble type for TFP shown.

Can't really comment on what genuine MOCs Toni bought as he isn't saying and no list for that has turned up yet. Will update the guide when more info becomes available.

cheers Jason
Many Bothans died to bring us this information...

Want Palitoy ESB 45A Back (Blue Circle Offer) 2-1B MOC and Palitoy ESB 30B cardbacks for first 12 figures

Mr Palitoy's Cardback Guide
http://www.freewebs.com/mrpalitoy
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Re: Important info on Potential Toy Toni carded figure scam.

Post by spoons »

Thanks Jason but I now don't know what to think

The 45c Han does show shelf wear - but so might other TTs that have been around a few years. The tri bubble is odd and I had put than down to the European later release - could that be Toni instead?

It's major saving grace is that the bubble is aligned well to the left but I've just looked at all my Kenners and the bubble alignment is no guarantee

Also my 65d bubble is narrow like the dimpled bubble, but aligned to the left

I have Kenner 47 and 48 backs have centrally aligned clear sealed bubbles and with large gaps between the base of the bubble and card. One has a price sticker otherwise I'd put these down to a US Toy Toni - the seals have always bugged me.

There may be loads of genuine cards out there but a lot of us will doubt them.
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Re: Important info on Potential Toy Toni carded figure scam.

Post by RKW1138 »

Well 1 month on an I guess we are due a recap so I've collated all the posts I could find spread across RS and here and posted below.
If I've missed something then let me know and I'll update the post. Big thanks to wbobafett for doing all the donkey work.


1985 - Palitoy toy factory in Coalvile ceases production.

Woolworth stores had virtually exclusive rights to sell off the remaining Palitoy stock in 85.
Hundreds of Tri PotF items were exported for sale on mainland Europe and the Tri-logo 4-Packs and 64 figure boxes were sold through various warehouses in the UK.

List of known toy dealers who had acquired unused Palitoy factory stock:
Andy Loney (US)
Antoni Emchowicz aka ToyToni.com (UK)
Arthur Bailey (UK)
William Rodgers aka Billy Boy (UK)
Bruce Zolkan (US)

1985-1990 – Toy dealer Arthur Bailey from Peterborough acquires thousands of unused ESB & ROTJ cards for different characters and six boxes of unused card blisters (types unknown).
http://www.starwarsforum.co.uk/viewtopi ... st#p261359
Arthur is also alleged to have had boxes of carded figures for sale.

Toy dealer Antoni Emchowicz recollection on 7th December 2013 (SWFUK forum)

“I do remember there indeed was a list of items which included unused cards but these never materialised”

“I never saw any or was offered any samples from him. I ended up buying quite large quantities of carded figures from him
which were a mix of Kenner, POTF, Palitoy, German General Mills and Trilogo”
1988-1990 – Toy dealer/Collector Billy Boy acquired and sold approx. 50 unused Palitoy 45 & 65 card backs from an unknown source. It should be noted that Billy Boy lived not far from Antoni Emchowicz.
Toy dealer/collector Billy Boy recollection on 2nd February 2004 (RS Forum)

“None of the unused cards I saw were ESB 45A/B cards... BUT there were quite a few RotJ 45Cs and 65s!”
1999 – US Dealer Andy Loney sold unused card backs at Greensboro toy show, described to have had stacks of them available. Known to have stocked Logray, Imperial commander, C3PO, Squid head, Lobot & Lando Calrissian skiff.
Toy Dealer Andy Loney recollection on 5th July 2008 (RS Forum)

“I bought the unused backers from a dealer at the Atlantique City show in the late 1990s for $100 each. I don't remember off the top of my head which ones I bought. I am sure I have a photo or 2 on an old computer, but I haven't gone looking yet. I think I only had about 8-10 different ones. I had multiples of only a couple. I held on to one of each until I decided that I didn't care about them any more. I then got them graded and sold them”
2014 - Swfuk forum member Starzone confirms that Antoni Emchowicz was at Atlantique City show around 2000 selling unused card backs to both dealers and collectors.
Toy dealer Starzone posted January 11th 2014 (Swfuk)

"He sold some to a friend of mine, back in around 2000 at that show"
Palitoy ROTJ Boba Fett
1985-1990 - Dealer/collector Jason Joiner purchases approximately 500 carded (allegedly) ROTJ Boba Fett’s on both Palitoy 45 & 65 card backs from Toy dealer Arthur Bailey. Jason claims to have sold approximately 440 to UK collector/dealer Craig Stevens from Romford.
Jason Joiners recollection of the cards on 7th December 2013 (SWFUK forum)

“when there turned up the cards was all palitoy both troopers and Bobas the Boba's where all fine and bubbles where all tight to the card”
Craig Stevens recollection of the cards on 7th December 2013 (SWFUK forum)

“As you will remember all of them were factory seconds deemed unworthy for sale in the shops. The bubbles were not attached to the backing cards properly, probably because the Boba Fett figure is too large for that style of bubble. They were all falling off. Also most of the backing cards suffered from a printing error, leaving a nasty mark across the front.
I attempted to keep a dozen or so of the nicer ones in sealed condition but not one of them survived I’m afraid. I don’t even have one.”

2013 - Craig was seen selling one of those used card backs on eBay and evidence shows iron marks on card back.
Update 30/01/14 by Craig Stevens (Swfuk forum)

One of my major purchases occurred when Jason supplied me with 212 Palitoy carded Boba Fett figures. The number 212 was quoted in the Marvel Star Wars comic story "Star Search" as being the number of Mandalorians that fought against the Jedi in the Clone Wars (which of course has been discarded in the new canon). Jason may have bought more from his source, being convinced that I would take the lot but I stuck to 212 which was the size if the army. Jason also bought a large number of carded Snowtroopers around the same time as he had a stack of them in his loft, but I have no idea of the style or quality of the packaging they were in. Jason and I were each collecting an Imperial army at the time and I assumed that Jason had bought them for this reason.
Craig's 212 figure count is half what Jason claimed to have sold. Any remaining Jason Joiner stock was sold at various conventions.

1996 Dealer/Collector Jason Joiner has a stall at a UK event in Cheshunt.
Collector James Simmonds recollection on 12th December 2013 (SWFUK forum)

“As I’m looking through what seems like hundreds of carded mini action figures on a stall that belongs to Jason I spy a carded ROTJ Palitoy Boba Fett with a £30 price tag on it. I had to do a double take at the price because even back then that price was bargain for a hard to find mini figure, so I immediately ask to buy it. Instead of handing me the Fett that is on display, the guy behind the stall reaches down and pulls out a small box which he opens up to reveal at least half a dozen or so other carded Palitoy Fetts. He hands me one and I pay for it then I go on my way feeling very happy with my purchase.

At that moment I just assumed that they were the remainder of a warehouse find of old stock or something like that. However, later on in the day, I’m back in the dealer room and happen to notice that Jason is now behind his stall. As I wander over to take another look at the carded pieces that he has for sale (I was really tempted to buy an ESB Kenner Luke Bespin that was £60), I overhear the guy running the stall saying to Jason that the Fetts were selling like hot cakes. Jason then proceeded to tell him that the Fetts were made up of unused factory bubbles and cards that had been stuck together recently. Well, you can imagine how shocked I felt and it really put a damper on what was otherwise a fantastic day out. Looking back, I should have asked for my money back at the time because I felt ripped off but there you go.”
1999 – Collector Henrik Berndt recollection on 2nd February 2004 (RS Forum)

“I bought a bunch of trilogo Fetts from a dealer in the London area some five years ago, he said he'd bought them at a car boot sale near Leicester in the 80´s. Apparently the glue had gone bad and the bubble had all separated, so they could not sell them normally. He also told me there were boxes of Snowtroopers too. I also got a few cardbacks and bubbles. It was clear, however, that the cardbacks had been used, even if the wear and tear from the bubble was minimal, so they could not or cannot be confused with unused examples. If only I'd taken them all. He had more than 100 loose unplayed TriFetts”
1999 – Collector Ron Salvatore posted on 9th April 1999 (rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting.vintage)

“There was a find of them on Palitoy cards. I talked to the guy who had them awhile back. If I'm not mistaken, Mark Clark bought a bunch of them from this guy at an Atlantic City show, and Mark quickly flipped some to Contemporary Relics that same day. The guy had a bunch of them, as well as a bunch of other minty Palitoy figures.”
2013 - Some sealed examples still survive with evidence of iron marks. All known examples of sealed and formally sealed card backs that show iron marks used the double stem blister.


Palitoy ROTJ Hoth Stormtrooper
1985-1990 - Dealer/collector Jason Joiner purchases approximately 500 carded (allegedly) ROTJ Hoth Stormtroopers on both Palitoy 45 & 65 card backs from Toy dealer Arthur Bailey.

Jason claims to have sold the majority of them to US dealer Bruce Zolkan in Florida. Some were sold through Jason’s stores and the remainder by eBay seller Mark Carter who was selling off Jason’s old warehouse stock.

2013 – Examples found with either unusual stains on the card front or card hanger marks made by another card.

Jason Joiners recollection of the cards on 7th December 2013 (SWFUK forum)

“you see the card has a line of dust or dirt film going from top to bottom level with the bubble well thats because i have 500 of them and i could store them properly in my mums house back then so my loft had my personal collation in it and at one end in the top of the eves i stacked them one by one locking them tight next to the bubble next to the next one this meant that the only part of the card exposed dust was the part above the bubble over the years dust and crap came in from a loft vent creating a bit of grime in the surface so thats why you have that line on that card my friend it was in my loft for around 8 years”
Photo of Jason Joiners loft.
Image

2013 - Many examples found displaying both iron marks on both blister and card. Most appear to use double stem blisters but some single stem examples found with upside down blister.


CURRENT ANALYSIS

1. There is currently no additional supporting evidence that toy dealer Arthur Bailey had any carded figures to sell other than the fact that dealer Antoni Emchowicz is selling carded figures. Dealer/collector Jason Joiner posted a copy of Arthur’s inventory of un-carded figures but surprisingly the page for the carded stock is missing. You would have expected all the pages of a multipage document to have been kept together.

If Arthur Bailey had no carded figures then this would implicate both dealers Jason Joiner and Antoni Emchowicz as knowingly selling modern sealed figures.

If we are to believe that carded figures were sold by Arthur Bailey then with the current evidence of poorly sealed Palitoy ROTJ Hoth Stormtrooper’s and ROTJ Boba Fett’s sold by Jason Joiner. It would be reasonable to conclude that the remaining carded stock sold by Arthur also had dodgy seals.

2. There is evidence to suggest Antoni Emchowicz has sold used cardbacks that show some evidence of a poor blister seal.

3. Other than Jason Joiner’s allegations that Antoni Emchowicz was the dealer who purchased unused cardbacks and blisters from toy dealer Arthur Bailey there has been no public first hand reports to support this.

4. The source of unused cardbacks sold by both US dealer Andy Loney and UK dealer/collector Billy Boy is not publicly known. Could they have also had access to unused blisters? Billy Boy has been accused of selling fake baggies in the past.

UPDATE 11/01/14 --- A forum member has come forward to confirm that Antoni Emchowicz was selling unused card backs at a Atlantique city show around 2000. I think this confirms Antoni as being the person that originally supplied US dealer Andy Loney and more than likely Billy Boy due to proximity. So we now have more evidence of deception from Antoni claiming that he had never seen any unused card backs.
Antoni has now responded

"hi yes that sounds about right- despite there being several lists with large numbers of loose cards as far as I know only a handful actually turned up-they came my way and were bought by an American guy as in his post I don't remember which figures they were .Probably best to mention that Arthur Bailey died about 5-6 ago .Toni"
5. There is public evidence to show Antoni Emchowicz new the toy dealer Arthur Bailey a lot better than he tried to initially make out.

6. There is public evidence to show Antoni Emchowicz had a second eBay count in order to mask his purchasing of mint loose figures.

7. While there is evidence that there was an abundance of light blue Boba Fett figures in the UK during 1985 there is currently no evidence that Palitoy 45 back cards with these figures ever made it to retail.

8. From the carded figures sold by ToyToni.com below are a number of identifying features that have been found on multiple cards.
a. Some card backs display a red mark next to Chewbacca’s arm. This printing error has also been found on cards not
sourced from ToyToni and with original price stickers.

b. Printing errors where the red, green and blue plates are misaligned. Printing errors like this have also been found on
store purchased examples.

c. The German 45 back cards have the text “Star Wars Action Figures Collect all 45” printed on the back of the card at
the very top. A lot of German purchased cards owned by collectors don’t display any text but one example has been shown
that was not purchased from ToyToni that also shows signs of sticker residue.

d. The many array of blisters used for the same ROTJ figure. There appears to be a wide variety used, narrow & wide twin
stem blisters, Trilogo, rounded ROTJ style and even single stem blisters used. While not impossible it all seems really
disorganised compared to the Kenner line.

e. Two dimples appear at the very top of some blisters. The size, spacing and angle of the dimples appear identical across
multiple character cards. UPDATE - Store examples found with these two dimples/holes so these bubbles are considered genuine.
9) One has to question what the motive would be to purchase so many unused card backs and boxes of unused blisters. There was an abundance of loose figures available back in the 80’s and early 90’s so would the temptation be too great?


To be continued……….




Edited to add new info about Andy Loney & Billy Boy relating to unused card backs.
25/1/14 - Added photo of Jason Joiners loft showing Hoth Troopers stacked.
01/02/14 - Added extra information given by Craig Stevens regarding the Boba Fett's he purchased from Jason Joiner.
Last edited by RKW1138 on Sat Feb 01, 2014 7:52 pm, edited 12 times in total.
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Re: Important info on Potential Toy Toni carded figure scam.

Post by wbobafett »

That pretty much sums it up....

Some corrections/suggestions:
c. The German 45 back cards have the text “Star Wars Action Figures Collect all 45” printed on the back of the card at
the very top. As of yet all German purchased cards owned by collectors don’t display any text.
As a result the cards purchased by Antoni could well be rejects and never made it to retail.
That is not true, but decide yourself: German 45 Luke Hoth with “Star Wars Action Figures Collect all 45” printed on he back:

Image

found here (and Mike already confrimed it has the text on it):
http://s487.photobucket.com/user/mike-s ... t=9&page=1

d. Circular/Semi-Circle area at the top edge of the blister where the seal has not been heated.
This is not unique to ToyToni cards and appears to be quite common on ESB 45 back cards but can also be found on
ROTJ 65A cards. The result is that if the blister is removed you will clearly see a circular area of card that is not ripped.
I m not sure if I get this right.?!?!? So far non of the cards showing the Circular/Semi-Circle area to the top of the blister came from Toni! These are actually all legit examples which cannot traced back to ToyToni?!?!? Am I wrong??
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Re: Important info on Potential Toy Toni carded figure scam.

Post by spoons »

wbobafett wrote: I m not sure if I get this right.?!?!? So far non of the cards showing the Circular/Semi-Circle area to the top of the blister came from Toni! These are actually all legit examples which cannot traced back to ToyToni?!?!? Am I wrong??
I thought the same Wolff - circle/semi circles are good
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Re: Important info on Potential Toy Toni carded figure scam.

Post by mr_palitoy »

spoons wrote:
wbobafett wrote: I m not sure if I get this right.?!?!? So far non of the cards showing the Circular/Semi-Circle area to the top of the blister came from Toni! These are actually all legit examples which cannot traced back to ToyToni?!?!? Am I wrong??
I thought the same Wolff - circle/semi circles are good
Yes, shows that it is a genuine factory seal.

cheers Jason
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Re: Important info on Potential Toy Toni carded figure scam.

Post by spoons »

mr_palitoy wrote:
spoons wrote:Thanks Jason but I now dot know what to think

The 45c Han does so shelf wear - but so might other TTs that have been around a few years. The tri bubble is odd and I had put than down to the European later release - could that be Toni instead?

It's major saving grace is that the bubble is aligned well to the left but I've just looked at all my Kenners and the bubble alignment is no guarantee

Also my 65d bubble is narrow like the dimpled bubble, but aligned to the left

I have Kenner 47 and 48 backs with centrally aligned clear sealed bubbles and with large gaps between the base of the bubble and card. One has a price sticker otherwise I'd put these down to a US Toy Toni - the seals have always bugged me.

There may be loads of genuine cards out there but a lot of us will doubt them.
I got the feel that he has tri logo bubbles as I edited the guide. Various figures that have large style tri logo bubbles on too early card variations. Leia boussh and Lando skiff both also have tri logo bubbles rather than the special bubbles with the separate space for hats.

And Walrus Man which has a tri logo bubble and 10 graded AFA examples. Also for sale on toytoni.com

cheers Jason
Jason, I've just posted proof on the thread below that the 45C with PBP figs came with tri-logo bubbles so COO is all important. Your examples above may be legit. I forgot I used to own a battered 45C with Clipper catalogue and Tri bubble, definitely not a TT

http://www.starwarsforum.co.uk/viewtopi ... 00#p264700

Send me a link to your AFA90 21Bs as I'm getting more convinced that the actual number of Toni fakes in circulation is much lower than the assumed numbers. He may have had 500 card backs of Bossk but I doubt he amassed 500 Bossks or bubbles to go on them.

Apart from obviously ironed bubbles, the only bubbles I'm currently concerned about are dimpled ones and if they prove to be factory sealed I wont be that surprised.

I'm sure other bubbles are fake -but as yet the tells aren't there
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Re: Important info on Potential Toy Toni carded figure scam.

Post by mr_palitoy »

spoons wrote:
mr_palitoy wrote:
spoons wrote:Thanks Jason but I now dot know what to think

The 45c Han does so shelf wear - but so might other TTs that have been around a few years. The tri bubble is odd and I had put than down to the European later release - could that be Toni instead?

It's major saving grace is that the bubble is aligned well to the left but I've just looked at all my Kenners and the bubble alignment is no guarantee

Also my 65d bubble is narrow like the dimpled bubble, but aligned to the left

I have Kenner 47 and 48 backs with centrally aligned clear sealed bubbles and with large gaps between the base of the bubble and card. One has a price sticker otherwise I'd put these down to a US Toy Toni - the seals have always bugged me.

There may be loads of genuine cards out there but a lot of us will doubt them.
I got the feel that he has tri logo bubbles as I edited the guide. Various figures that have large style tri logo bubbles on too early card variations. Leia boussh and Lando skiff both also have tri logo bubbles rather than the special bubbles with the separate space for hats.

And Walrus Man which has a tri logo bubble and 10 graded AFA examples. Also for sale on toytoni.com

cheers Jason
Jason, I've just posted proof on the thread below that the 45C with PBP figs came with tri-logo bubbles so COO is all important. Your examples above may be legit. I forgot I used to own a battered 45C with Clipper catalogue and Tri bubble, definitely not a TT

http://www.starwarsforum.co.uk/viewtopi ... 00#p264700

Send me a link to your AFA90 21Bs as I'm getting more convinced that the actual number of Toni fakes in circulation is much lower than the assumed numbers. He may have had 500 card backs of Bossk but I doubt he amassed 500 Bossks or bubbles to go on them.

Apart from obviously ironed bubbles, the only bubbles I'm currently concerned about are dimpled ones and if they prove to be factory sealed I wont be that surprised.

I'm sure other bubbles are fake -but as yet the tells aren't there
Do you mean my AFA 90 ESB/ROTJ Palitoy focus?

I never thought that he has carded all the unused cardbacks.
The best guide for how many there are would be the AFA population report multiplied by a factor of 3-4 say.

Can do a gap analysis of that if we think it would be useful?

Cheers Jason
Many Bothans died to bring us this information...

Want Palitoy ESB 45A Back (Blue Circle Offer) 2-1B MOC and Palitoy ESB 30B cardbacks for first 12 figures

Mr Palitoy's Cardback Guide
http://www.freewebs.com/mrpalitoy
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Re: Important info on Potential Toy Toni carded figure scam.

Post by mr_palitoy »

jedisearcher wrote:Didn't someone say about 100 pages ago that UKG were actively helping in trying to sort out this mess? Have we had anything from them at all? All that data and expertise and nothing?
Havent had a peep out of AFA/UKG.

cheers Jason
Many Bothans died to bring us this information...

Want Palitoy ESB 45A Back (Blue Circle Offer) 2-1B MOC and Palitoy ESB 30B cardbacks for first 12 figures

Mr Palitoy's Cardback Guide
http://www.freewebs.com/mrpalitoy
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