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Rate TLJ out of ten

Discuss all Star Wars films here - the original trilogy, prequel trilogy and the new Disney films.

What's your score for TLJ out of ten?

0-1, two hours of Jarjar would have been preferable
17
15%
2
7
6%
3
4
3%
4
9
8%
5
13
11%
6
20
17%
7
20
17%
8
14
12%
9
10
9%
10, it's the best SW ever ever ever
3
3%
 
Total votes: 117

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Re: Rate TLJ out of ten

Postby TK-7785 » Wed Mar 20, 2019 7:51 pm

Snaketibe wrote:This long after TLJ's release, kneejerk reactions should hopefully be out of the way. It's clear that there are those out there that like, even love this film, and I'm sure they will happily go to see Episode IX with a skip in their step and warmth in their hearts. I however, will not be one of them. I fall very much into the category of people who cannot stand TLJ, and it's perfectly apparent that there are a very great many of us out there who feel likewise. I could (very!) easily list the things I dislike about that film, but I've been there and done that already, and it achieves nothing at the end of the day.

What I am interested in seeing is how well Episode IX does at the box office. For what it's worth, I did go to see 'Solo' - twice - and enjoyed it, because it had nothing to do with the sequel trilogy, although many people seem to have been unable to make that distinction, and hence stayed away in droves, meaning that that film amazingly made Disney a loss!

I'm sure those people who liked TLJ will go along to see IX, plus a fair chunk of those who disliked it (presumably hoping to see something they like more). However, what is currently unknown is how many people simply won't bother seeing IX at all. I truly wish things were different for me, but TLJ so completely and utterly destroyed the new story for me (in addition to showing astonishing disrespect and contempt for the character of Luke Skywalker, and the establish canon of the saga) that I simply refuse to go and see IX, and I am very curious to see how many others feel the same way. IX will still do enormous box office of course, but I do wonder how it will compare with TLJ's, which itself was very significantly (as in $730 million) down from TFA's, largely due, I suspect, to those like myself who would have given plenty of repeat business to TLJ, if I hadn't hated it with every fibre of my being.

So I'm curious; is anyone else on the forum planning on skipping seeing Episode IX altogether?


I'm with you pretty much 100%, mate. Now the dust has settled my feelings towards TLJ and subsequent Ep9 are that of indifference. TLJ left us with such banal, poorly thought out characters and plot decisions that I don't care about where it goes. There was nothing in the plot or characters that makes me feel like I really want to know what happens next. And this isn't a case of anger at how things were depicted (Luke etc) in TLJ, I genuinely just don't care.

For its faults, TFA set up some half decent characters in Poe and Finn for example, but both of which had their personalities and motivations altered beyond recognition in TLJ. I was interested enough to see where the story would go. The biggest mistake they have made with the sequel trilogy is a clear lack of story outline or roadmap for the trilogy, as well as handing the second chapter to a director who was clearly more concerned with creating the story he wanted, regardless of continuity, then a cohesive middle act of three parts. As a stand alone Rian's concept may not have been so vitally flawed. I have read that JJ passed an outline to Rian, but that Rian threw out nearly all of it in order to do his own thing. It certainly feels like that was the case after viewing TLJ.

I won't be going to see Ep9. Not out of spite or "fanboy" anger, but because I have no motivation to want to see it. It's going to take some doing on JJ's part however to tie everything back together and I hope for the future of Star Wars he does a good job.
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Re: Rate TLJ out of ten

Postby Snaketibe » Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:17 pm

TK-7785 wrote:I'm with you pretty much 100%, mate. Now the dust has settled my feelings towards TLJ and subsequent Ep9 are that of indifference. TLJ left us with such banal, poorly thought out characters and plot decisions that I don't care about where it goes. There was nothing in the plot or characters that makes me feel like I really want to know what happens next. And this isn't a case of anger at how things were depicted (Luke etc) in TLJ, I genuinely just don't care.

For its faults, TFA set up some half decent characters in Poe and Finn for example, but both of which had their personalities and motivations altered beyond recognition in TLJ. I was interested enough to see where the story would go. The biggest mistake they have made with the sequel trilogy is a clear lack of story outline or roadmap for the trilogy, as well as handing the second chapter to a director who was clearly more concerned with creating the story he wanted, regardless of continuity, then a cohesive middle act of three parts. As a stand alone Rian's concept may not have been so vitally flawed. I have read that JJ passed an outline to Rian, but that Rian threw out nearly all of it in order to do his own thing. It certainly feels like that was the case after viewing TLJ.

I won't be going to see Ep9. Not out of spite or "fanboy" anger, but because I have no motivation to want to see it. It's going to take some doing on JJ's part however to tie everything back together and I hope for the future of Star Wars he does a good job.

Very well put. And I believe you are indeed correct in that Rian was given an outline which he threw away. I've also heard that he had his script for TLJ effectively all but written before he even saw TFA! I'm not absolutely sure if that's true, but it certainly could be judging by what he put on screen.

Like you, I have no interest in seeing IX now. Disney really cocked up spectacularly by not having a Kevin Feige type genuine Star Wars fan in overall charge of things before commencing with Episode VII. Perhaps then that film wouldn't have suffered from the major flaws it has too; like you I enjoyed it, but would never have considered killing off Han or leaving Luke out of the thing for all but the last 10 seconds, or including a whiny Poundlound Darth Vader wannabe, and Rey should absolutely not be so adept at using the force without a single second of training! To have her fight and defeat Kylo Ren the very first time she picks up a lightsaber is absurd.

But more than that, Disney have allowed their employees to join in the chorus of ignorance in damning anyone and everyone who doesn't like TLJ.
The vanishingly few genuine loons and assholes who disliked the film because they're racists or sexists have been given all the headlines, and then everyone else who disliked the film for other reasons gets tarred with the same brush! I'm not sexist or racist! I dislike the film because in my opinion everything about the story and plot sucks, not because it happens to star some people who aren't white males! It's insulting beyond words, yet Disney have refused to even acknowledge the legitimate concerns of disappointed fans like me who don't like the film, and instead allow others who've never met me and don't know the first thing about me to call me a sexist, misogynist and racist!

Making a film that divides opinion is one thing, but insulting anyone who doesn't happen to like it is ridiculous and childish.

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Re: Rate TLJ out of ten

Postby Grant_C » Wed Mar 20, 2019 11:51 pm

The original trilogy definitely didn’t have a clear roadmap. Lucas has re-written history of what the originals and prequels were meant to be. The whole family dynamic of the Skywalkers changed plenty of times during the writing of the OT. Definitely check out the drafts of the scripts or interviews with people like Khersner or Kurtz etc

I definitely agree with you that there doesn’t seem to be a road map and evidence would suggest this, but nothing has been officially released. Adam Driver stayed in a recent interview that he knew his characters journey from day 1. I see a lot of YouTube videos of fans making judgements on things based on things they’ve pulled out of their ass with no recourse. Bob Ayger is going to fire Kathleen Kennedy is the hot click bait. He gives her a 3 year extension on her contract. And yet the bedroom tabloids still rant about fabricated ‘leaks’.

I also wonder if Lucasfilm is handicapped by what they can say. Is it possible that Carrie Fishers health was decreasing or poor and therefore the Holdo character was written to buffer that issue?

But at the same time, I can totally see why fans hated TLJ. I’m really stuck in the middle. There’s things I like, a few things I love and a lot of things I detest. It’s finally provided an environment where Ahmed Best finally feels safe to leave the house.

But to not watch a Star Wars movie? That’s fucking crazy :lol:

AT-AT’s are a lot slower than Resistance Bombers and make absolutely no sense. And no one says a word.....

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Re: Rate TLJ out of ten

Postby Snaketibe » Thu Mar 21, 2019 1:01 am

Grant_C wrote:The original trilogy definitely didn’t have a clear roadmap. Lucas has re-written history of what the originals and prequels were meant to be. The whole family dynamic of the Skywalkers changed plenty of times during the writing of the OT. Definitely check out the drafts of the scripts or interviews with people like Khersner or Kurtz etc

I definitely agree with you that there doesn’t seem to be a road map and evidence would suggest this, but nothing has been officially released. Adam Driver stayed in a recent interview that he knew his characters journey from day 1. I see a lot of YouTube videos of fans making judgements on things based on things they’ve pulled out of their ass with no recourse. Bob Ayger is going to fire Kathleen Kennedy is the hot click bait. He gives her a 3 year extension on her contract. And yet the bedroom tabloids still rant about fabricated ‘leaks’.

I also wonder if Lucasfilm is handicapped by what they can say. Is it possible that Carrie Fishers health was decreasing or poor and therefore the Holdo character was written to buffer that issue?

But at the same time, I can totally see why fans hated TLJ. I’m really stuck in the middle. There’s things I like, a few things I love and a lot of things I detest. It’s finally provided an environment where Ahmed Best finally feels safe to leave the house.

But to not watch a Star Wars movie? That’s fucking crazy :lol:

AT-AT’s are a lot slower than Resistance Bombers and make absolutely no sense. And no one says a word.....


I of course agree with you completely about George Lucas changing the overall OT story specifics as he went along, as well as re-writing history numerous times since (anyone remember when Star Wars was going to have 12 episodes? Then when it was 9? Then when it was only ever going to have 6? ;-)). I know my Star Wars history, however in fairness to Lucas, I'm sure he had the gist of what he wanted to make and the general direction the story would take pretty early on, even if the specific path meandered this way and that away from the original kernel of his idea. Famously for example, Gary Kurtz felt Lucas was more interested in getting toy opportunities on screen by the time Return of the Jedi came along than he was about making the best film that he could, and hence they parted ways due to these 'creative differences'. Despite that though, it remained one person's vision from start to finish, and even the prequels are more or less consistent with the original trilogy, for all their other many faults, for that reason.

The sequel trilogy by contrast has all the hallmarks of being rushed into production by a greedy Disney eyeing dollar signs, before being properly prepared, and certainly without an overall story arc. And to have each episode written and directed by individuals who are not beholden to such an overall arc is a jaw-droppingly bad way of handling such a valuable IP. Risky doesn't even begin to describe it! Yes, as previously acknowledged, some fans like TLJ (I genuinely don't know why, but I accept the fact that they do and respect their perfect right to do so), but Disney have managed to piss off and alienate a lot of fans like me; a life-long Star Wars fan from the age of 6 in 1978. Until TLJ came out, I never dreamt the day would come when I not only wouldn't be excited about a new Star Wars film coming out, but I would also have no intention of going to see it. And with respect, that isn't me being fucking crazy, that's me not being a fucking masochist.

I truly, deeply and utterly despise what Rian Johnson was allowed to do to Star Wars, and anything short of Episode IX beginning with Rey awaking on Ackh To in front of a very much still alive Luke Skywalker, having just experienced the entirety of TLJ in the form of a dark force vision sent by Snoke, won't satisfy me. Disney won't do that of course, because to do so would be to acknowledge how unsatisfactory TLJ was (and pissing off half your fan base, even if the other half adores the piece, is massively unsatisfactory for Disney because they're losing customers and hence revenue).

JJ has to make the best of the dog's breakfast left by Johnson, and since TLJ won't be wiped from the canon by making it a Bobby Ewing in the shower moment, it means it remains part of the canon. That in turn means that if I watch IX, not only am I rewarding Disney for making a shit film, pissing me off and then insulting me to boot, I also have to accept TLJ as canon, and I have absolutely no wish to do that as I detest it so much. Rogue One and (to a lesser extent) Solo aside, for me the Star Wars saga beyond Return of the Jedi remains what it was for many perfectly satisfactory years; in book form in the numerous Expanded Universe stories started by Timothy Zahn's 'Heir to the Empire' trilogy, and concluding with the end of the now rebranded 'Legends' stories. I don't require anything further from Disney in the Star Wars sequel film department. They've had my money for the first two, disappointed me, and don't deserve another penny of it.

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Re: Rate TLJ out of ten

Postby weasel » Thu Mar 21, 2019 1:24 pm

Not sure I'll be going to see episode 9 either. I think I said that earlier in the thread.
The monstrosity that was TLJ has sort of left me at a crossroads when it comes to SW. I will always love the OT, and I suspect I'll always be disappointed with the prequels. They are poor films and such a let down on what they could have been. I'm not sure I "hate" them as such, but they are so far from what I was expecting/hoping for that I never watch them. Maybe if I ever show SW to the wee man I might show him the prequels as well.
The newer films are fine. TFA was basically a rehash of ANH so no issues there. Rogue one was a great film. But TLJ was a monstrosity. It just fucked away 40 years worth of back story, character arcs/behaviour and history all so we could have the shittest chase scene since Speed2. Then there is the issue with the casino bit, the Mary Poppins bit, the "comedic" element, and the dozens of other daft scenes mentioned in this thread.
TLJ has left me feeling if I watch another shit SW film that will be me done with SW. It has been ruined and the more I think about TLJ the less likely I am to want to watch the OT (TBF, like most of you I can probably recite the films anyway). I didn't go to see Solo, nor do I plan to. If I watch it and it's pish that'll be me done. ATM I'm happy to leave SW and still be able to enjoy the OT, TFA and Rogue 1. If I watch another film and it's anything like TLJ every time I watch one of the others I will be reminded of what a fuck up they made of the whole thing and it'll ruin them. Memory by association I think it's called.

I haven't decided for sure if I'll go and see E9, but I would say odds are I won't.
I left Solo to let you lot see it first and tell me what you thought, most seemed to think it was ok or better, but I still felt no need to see it. I suspect E9 will be the same. Such a shame, but whoever signed off TLJ really needs to be fired. To "ok" something that changed so much in what was such a successful franchise was a best a gamble that didn't need to be taken. At worst it was gross incompetence. I mean did they really think the fans would turn round and say "Yay, you changed pretty much everything we knew and loved about SW for no apparent reason, that's so cool!"



Oohh and whilst I agree it was sad to see Han die I did read somewhere that Harrison Ford only agreed to come back for one film on condition Han died. Not sure if it's true but if it is that does absolve the Directors and Disney of the blame for that.
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Re: Rate TLJ out of ten

Postby theforceuk » Thu Mar 21, 2019 2:39 pm

weasel wrote:Not sure I'll be going to see episode 9 either. I think I said that earlier in the thread.
The monstrosity that was TLJ has sort of left me at a crossroads when it comes to SW. I will always love the OT, and I suspect I'll always be disappointed with the prequels. They are poor films and such a let down on what they could have been. I'm not sure I "hate" them as such, but they are so far from what I was expecting/hoping for that I never watch them. Maybe if I ever show SW to the wee man I might show him the prequels as well.
The newer films are fine. TFA was basically a rehash of ANH so no issues there. Rogue one was a great film. But TLJ was a monstrosity. It just fucked away 40 years worth of back story, character arcs/behaviour and history all so we could have the shittest chase scene since Speed2. Then there is the issue with the casino bit, the Mary Poppins bit, the "comedic" element, and the dozens of other daft scenes mentioned in this thread.
TLJ has left me feeling if I watch another shit SW film that will be me done with SW. It has been ruined and the more I think about TLJ the less likely I am to want to watch the OT (TBF, like most of you I can probably recite the films anyway). I didn't go to see Solo, nor do I plan to. If I watch it and it's pish that'll be me done. ATM I'm happy to leave SW and still be able to enjoy the OT, TFA and Rogue 1. If I watch another film and it's anything like TLJ every time I watch one of the others I will be reminded of what a fuck up they made of the whole thing and it'll ruin them. Memory by association I think it's called.

I haven't decided for sure if I'll go and see E9, but I would say odds are I won't.
I left Solo to let you lot see it first and tell me what you thought, most seemed to think it was ok or better, but I still felt no need to see it. I suspect E9 will be the same. Such a shame, but whoever signed off TLJ really needs to be fired. To "ok" something that changed so much in what was such a successful franchise was a best a gamble that didn't need to be taken. At worst it was gross incompetence. I mean did they really think the fans would turn round and say "Yay, you changed pretty much everything we knew and loved about SW for no apparent reason, that's so cool!"



Oohh and whilst I agree it was sad to see Han die I did read somewhere that Harrison Ford only agreed to come back for one film on condition Han died. Not sure if it's true but if it is that does absolve the Directors and Disney of the blame for that.


Nothing will spoil my enjoyment of the origional trilogy, all three films are 'go to' films when I'm down and only seem to get better. Especially as the years go by and the sci-fy film collection becomes more diluted. I can fully understand your feelings though. That said you really should watch Solo. in my opinion it's the second best Disney Star Wars film after Rogue 1, sure it's got some faults, but it's a good film in it's own right.

I've read that about Harrison Ford as well. My understanding is he wanted to be killed off in ROTJ, because he wanted complete out of Star Wars and didn't want the constent questions down the years of are you ever going to do another Star Wars fim? I think it's good he died, makes the story authentic when a hero dies.
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Re: Rate TLJ out of ten

Postby Grant_C » Thu Mar 21, 2019 5:36 pm

It’s £10 and 2 hours :lol:

Make it sound like making a decision for face tattoos.

:lol: :lol:

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Re: Rate TLJ out of ten

Postby theforceuk » Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:34 pm

£10!! I wouldn't pay that. £5.50 at my local Cinema with a movie magic card. :lol:

Popcorn and a Coke is £10 though. :lol:

Oh and you need a nice warm coat in the winter.
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Re: Rate TLJ out of ten

Postby TK-7785 » Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:53 pm

Grant_C wrote:It’s £10 and 2 hours :lol:

Make it sound like making a decision for face tattoos.

:lol: :lol:


Yeah, but I'd rather get my face tattooed. :lol:
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Re: Rate TLJ out of ten

Postby Cazza » Fri Mar 22, 2019 7:17 am

TK-7785 wrote:
Grant_C wrote:It’s £10 and 2 hours :lol:

Make it sound like making a decision for face tattoos.

:lol: :lol:


Yeah, but I'd rather get my face tattooed. :lol:


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Re: Rate TLJ out of ten

Postby Robstyley » Sat Mar 23, 2019 4:23 pm

I watched it again the other day after a long time of not seeing it and I'm sad to say that my opinion of the film now is that it is plop. 5/6 out of 10.

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Re: Rate TLJ out of ten

Postby Chico » Sun Mar 24, 2019 9:46 am

Watched the TFA and TLJ again with the kids - they loved it and immediately asked to get the toys and lightsabers out - which is what it’s all about. :D

My opinion on the the new movies hasn’t changed:

- TFA: the first 45 minutes is amongst my favourite of any SW film but then a bit disappointed that the rest was a (very enjoyable) rehash of ANH

- R1: great fun, but the future of SW is extremely limited if it stays within the safety of the OT.

- TLJ: it has flaws but LOVED that it tried something different and added new dimensions to the nature of the force etc. For me, first movie to feel fresh and unpredictable since the OT. The showdown between Luke and the walkers is my favourite scene of any SW film period. That summed up my childhood perfectly.

- Solo: enjoyable but my least favourite of the new films. Didn’t help that it came out so soon after TLJ, something about it felt like it was ‘trying’ to be Star Wars and not quite pulling it off. Really pleased that so many on here loved it though 8)

Looking forward to episode 9, but most interested to see what they can do with the completely new trilogies scheduled after.

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Re: Rate TLJ out of ten

Postby Snaketibe » Sun Mar 24, 2019 6:34 pm

I'm confident Disney will honour their commitment to David and Dan's new trilogy, but I would be amazed if Rian Johnson's one still went ahead, at the very least theatrically. With their new TV channel, and the production of brand new Star Wars content like 'The Mandalorian' being made to fill it, if Disney was still prepared to gamble on letting Rian loose in the Star Wars universe once again despite the backlash against him from half the fanbase following TLJ, my guess is that it's most likely to be there. Regardless, if they do allow him to make any more content, where they screen it is of course entirely irrelevant to me, since I would rather watch the Test Card boxed set whilst wearing thumb screws than inflict anything that talentless vandal curls out on myself ever again.

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Re: Rate TLJ out of ten

Postby Twin30mm » Mon Mar 25, 2019 4:10 am

Snaketibe, you've expressed my feelings towards TLJ, to a tee.
15 months down the line and my abhorrence for this so called SW movie and its round-headed fuck-knuckle of a director, has not diminished.

I sincerely believe the mis-handling of the ST, will in the future, be a case study on how not to revive a beloved franchise.

This film series has been a huge part of my life since 1978 and the complete indifference I'm feeling towards EP9 genuinely upsets me.
Hopefully, the Benioff & Weiss/Mandalorian projects can resurrect my interest.

On a side note, very interested to see the reaction to Kathleen Kennedys appearance at Celebration.
I'm sure her appearance will be choreographed down to the second.

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Re: Rate TLJ out of ten

Postby UKS » Mon Mar 25, 2019 6:38 pm

“I also wonder if Lucasfilm is handicapped by what they can say. Is it possible that Carrie Fishers health was decreasing or poor and therefore the Holdo character was written to buffer that issue?”

It was said in non SW circles that Carrie was difficult on TFA and would have a largely reduced role in TLJ because of it.

(I hated TFA and TLJ and did not pay to watch them.)


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