Snaketibe wrote:I think you'll find Disney have hardly helped themselves in this regard. They had no overall plan for the episodic sequels right from the start, which is nothing short of astonishing given that they paid $4 billion for it! Why they didn't put a Kevin Feige type person in charge to oversee their new films and keep them consistent both in terms of story and quality, as they wisely did with their Marvel films, I will never know. Instead, each new Star Wars film seems to have been rushed out with scant regard for the others, and with some pretty big cock-ups becoming public along the way, like the Colin Trevorrow and Phil Lord & Chris Miller fiascoes, and even with Rogue One (which I love!), it seems that Disney had to pull the film out of the fire with Tony Gilroy's reshoots saving the day.
None of these cock-ups can be blamed on 'Toxic Fan Boys', but rather are down to pure incompetence on the part of Lucasfilm / Disney, and that doesn't even begin to touch on the utter shitstorm of The last Jedi. Quite frankly, it really doesn't take a genius to know that creating such an obviously divisive and thoroughly atypical Star Wars episode as TLJ would be reviled by a huge part of the fan base, and whoever green lit it should be fired. That film is adored by some, but loathed by others (myself definitely included), and dividing the fan base is hardly the best way to ensure that either that film or the next Star Wars offering Disney put out would be roaring successes; TLJ made a lot of money, but it was a hell of a lot less than TFA, and Solo has sadly under-performed (and for what it's worth, I thought that was a good film that deserved to do better).
It's rather sad that Disney have put future stand-alone films on hold, but in the circumstances it's hardly surprising, as they will always look to the box office bottom line with regards to what their films make, regardless of fan opinion. It's simply unfair to blame the fans for this decision. Disney's chronic and inexplicable mismanagement of the property is the overwhelming reason for this.
I partially agree. But also don't a little.
It was Disney that rushed the production of VII and wanted a May 2015 release. It does seem like there was no overall plan because the Arnt/Lucas script was changed to a script that sets up the trilogy. Judging by the art of- the Lucas/Arndt script was well into Preproduction. It appears that Lucasfilm/Abrams/Disney expected TLJ to be a massive success and if it had been, this thread would not exist. I find a lot of the conspiracy theories on the actions on Lucasfilm are based on little evidence because they are a closed book. Fans are joining the dots and they could be right, but they could also be well off. Speaking to people who worked on TLJ said that they loved working on the film. It was a great creative experience. They also said that working under the LEGO brothers was not good. I fear the fans see smoke and cry volcano some times.
The Kevin Feige comparison is the opposite of what id hope. We've had a single vision for nearly 40 years and the majority of the fan base hated the prequels. The idea of a story group was an antidote to that. The idea of bringing in new film makers was an amazing idea. After all it was a young indie film maker that changed cinema with the original Star Wars. Unfortunately it appears that this brave progressive concept doesn't work. The firing of these directors prove that a film as complex as a Star Wars film is to much of a task. Bringing in a veteran Like Howard proves the point. I wouldn't call this incompetent, I call it brave, even though it hasn't worked out. I don't think a monolithic figure surrounded by 'yes men'is a good strategy. Marvel have successfully made the same film 19 times now and people seem to love it. Origin story->kidnapped girlfriend-> villain wants to destroy world. And I like some of them (Infinity War was amazing), but I'm hoping for new fresh stories in a vast galaxy that takes risks..............but doesn't divide the fan base........
The Last Jedi is the issue. I love the fact it took risks and turned the narrative upside down. Unfortunately this hasn't worked. I so wish it did, but the film has completely ruined fandom. I feel Its also dragged TFA down with it as any forgiveness for plagiarising the original but setting up the further episodes was thrown out by that film. The forced political correctness has also got peoples backs up. Which is unfortunate as I feel its the job of myth to reflect politics. Its got 'Wars' in the title with 'Imperial' soldiers etc. I just think that this was done better in the OT as it was implied and for the most part, I discovered more of what political implications it contained as I grew older. A great strength of the writing in the OT.
I'd like to say that if the fans see gender before character, then the fan is the problem. Especially with Rey. But Rose and other characters that have followed to reek of social engineering. The problem with the critique is that racists and sexist also agree with that critique and it taints a legitimate concern. The OT is full of commentary on Empire, relationships with technology, authoritarianism, history, politics etc, but saving animals and weapons trading was done so heavily handed, it was like getting plugged into hippy rally. And then there's Luke.
Fuck. Why couldn't he have a Mr Miagi with doubts character arc. We have been waiting all this time for him. I thought Hamill was amazing, but fuck. Han is dead, Luke is dead, Leia is dead. Kennedy said on a roundtable that she was going to protect the characters and I believe she thought by turning one of them into a star and the other as a rally call across the galaxy that their legacy would be. Unfortunately this has been met as a blatant swipe at the fans of the OT by having their characters disrespected. Perhaps your right, perhaps these missteps means that change Is needed. Fuck, I though a Master Luke and Padawan Rey would have been the greatest thing ever.
While I think about it, there is a line in film that upsets people, but I find that response a little short sighted. 'Kill the past if you have to'- which is defiantly what the film seems to be doing. But both Luke and Rey reject killing the past supporting the fact that Jedi will continue. Seems like that bit is overlooked. I'll put a
There's tons to go through. I feel stuck in the middle There are valid points on both sides. People complain that the surprise villain in Solo wasn't decided until the end. Fans jump on this as proof that there is no plan. But to me its not crucial to the film in any way. Why not put the film together first and get a feel for what the surprise could be? It makes no impact on the narrative really. I see that as being clever rather than settling for what was decided on Sunday, no matter what happened on Monday.
In regards to Solo. Not making an Christmas film was a massive mistake. There are some threads on here that suggest that SW will lose its event status. I think that could be right. Even though I want a new one every day.......there was something special about digesting a new film over long periods.
The fans though. I think the critiques are valid. I especially like creative critiques like The Phantom Edit and some of the TLJ fan edits. But what a bunch of whinny manbabies. At worse you have sexist and racist bottom feeders. The basket of deplorables as Emperor Clinton put it. On the other hand I see manbabies. YouTube videos dedicated dissecting every interaction and promotion about a movie. This social media fire mob on Twitter, Youtube etc is embarrassing. You've umpteen manbabies dedicating their lives to their depression over TLJ while their countries are going down the shitter. If they put as much effort directing their emotions at their political representatives we would have a much better world to live. I say this with a certain amount of embarrassment as I've got caught up in cheesy debates about opening vintage toys, so I can understand how its easy to get caught up in it all, but fuck me. Just reeks of first world problems. 40 years old a blubbering over Luke Skywalker. The West is fucked up. Chinas going to build an island with a military runway on it off the Isle of Skye and no ones going to notice because they made Hux look silly.
This is not directed at the folks on here- im talking the broken emotional manbabies on social media. I think its embarrassing an d toxic. It reflects on all of us badly. Yes, Lucasfilm could have defused this with PR (which appears to be non-existent), but I wish they would go sit in a hospital and watch Doctors do non-paid overtime for a few hours and then come back and tell me about their childhood being ruined because bombs shouldn't drop in space.
The Last Jedi is the issue. I have no idea why people didn't give Solo a go. One of the lessons of Star Wars was to keep an open mind. Yes making a closed minded judgment on little green men may bite you on the ass when you find out he's a Jedi Master. Its fucking Star Wars- go see it.
I think Lucasfilm have made some really exciting and brave choices out of the gate. Unfortunately, it appears it hasn't worked for half of the fan base. I would hope they would learn from their mistakes and try again. I don't think they set out to 'rape any ones childhood'. If I don't like it, well theres another one to go in the Attack of the Clone pile. But the way the 'fans' are launching personal attacks on the creators of the content is an embarrassment far worse than anything I have experienced as being a fan. Fuck the manbabies. Get them down the mines to dig some coal.
Hope this thread continues.