Important info on Potential Toy Toni carded figure scam.

wbobafett said:

I m not sure if I get this right.?!?!? So far non of the cards showing the Circular/Semi-Circle area to the top of the blister came from Toni! These are actually all legit examples which cannot traced back to ToyToni?!?!? Am I wrong??

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I thought the same Wolff - circle/semi circles are good

spoons said:

wbobafett said:

I m not sure if I get this right.?!?!? So far non of the cards showing the Circular/Semi-Circle area to the top of the blister came from Toni! These are actually all legit examples which cannot traced back to ToyToni?!?!? Am I wrong??

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I thought the same Wolff - circle/semi circles are good

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Yes, shows that it is a genuine factory seal.

cheers Jason

mr_palitoy said:

spoons said:

Thanks Jason but I now dot know what to think

The 45c Han does so shelf wear - but so might other TTs that have been around a few years. The tri bubble is odd and I had put than down to the European later release - could that be Toni instead?

It's major saving grace is that the bubble is aligned well to the left but I've just looked at all my Kenners and the bubble alignment is no guarantee

Also my 65d bubble is narrow like the dimpled bubble, but aligned to the left

I have Kenner 47 and 48 backs with centrally aligned clear sealed bubbles and with large gaps between the base of the bubble and card. One has a price sticker otherwise I'd put these down to a US Toy Toni - the seals have always bugged me.

There may be loads of genuine cards out there but a lot of us will doubt them.

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I got the feel that he has tri logo bubbles as I edited the guide. Various figures that have large style tri logo bubbles on too early card variations. Leia boussh and Lando skiff both also have tri logo bubbles rather than the special bubbles with the separate space for hats.

And Walrus Man which has a tri logo bubble and 10 graded AFA examples. Also for sale on toytoni.com

cheers Jason

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Jason, I've just posted proof on the thread below that the 45C with PBP figs came with tri-logo bubbles so COO is all important. Your examples above may be legit. I forgot I used to own a battered 45C with Clipper catalogue and Tri bubble, definitely not a TT

http://www.starwarsforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=18955&p=264700#p264700

Send me a link to your AFA90 21Bs as I'm getting more convinced that the actual number of Toni fakes in circulation is much lower than the assumed numbers. He may have had 500 card backs of Bossk but I doubt he amassed 500 Bossks or bubbles to go on them.

Apart from obviously ironed bubbles, the only bubbles I'm currently concerned about are dimpled ones and if they prove to be factory sealed I wont be that surprised.

I'm sure other bubbles are fake -but as yet the tells aren't there

spoons said:

mr_palitoy said:

spoons said:

Thanks Jason but I now dot know what to think

The 45c Han does so shelf wear - but so might other TTs that have been around a few years. The tri bubble is odd and I had put than down to the European later release - could that be Toni instead?

It's major saving grace is that the bubble is aligned well to the left but I've just looked at all my Kenners and the bubble alignment is no guarantee

Also my 65d bubble is narrow like the dimpled bubble, but aligned to the left

I have Kenner 47 and 48 backs with centrally aligned clear sealed bubbles and with large gaps between the base of the bubble and card. One has a price sticker otherwise I'd put these down to a US Toy Toni - the seals have always bugged me.

There may be loads of genuine cards out there but a lot of us will doubt them.

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I got the feel that he has tri logo bubbles as I edited the guide. Various figures that have large style tri logo bubbles on too early card variations. Leia boussh and Lando skiff both also have tri logo bubbles rather than the special bubbles with the separate space for hats.

And Walrus Man which has a tri logo bubble and 10 graded AFA examples. Also for sale on toytoni.com

cheers Jason

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Jason, I've just posted proof on the thread below that the 45C with PBP figs came with tri-logo bubbles so COO is all important. Your examples above may be legit. I forgot I used to own a battered 45C with Clipper catalogue and Tri bubble, definitely not a TT

http://www.starwarsforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=18955&p=264700#p264700

Send me a link to your AFA90 21Bs as I'm getting more convinced that the actual number of Toni fakes in circulation is much lower than the assumed numbers. He may have had 500 card backs of Bossk but I doubt he amassed 500 Bossks or bubbles to go on them.

Apart from obviously ironed bubbles, the only bubbles I'm currently concerned about are dimpled ones and if they prove to be factory sealed I wont be that surprised.

I'm sure other bubbles are fake -but as yet the tells aren't there

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Do you mean my AFA 90 ESB/ROTJ Palitoy focus?

I never thought that he has carded all the unused cardbacks.
The best guide for how many there are would be the AFA population report multiplied by a factor of 3-4 say.

Can do a gap analysis of that if we think it would be useful?

Cheers Jason

jedisearcher said:

Didn't someone say about 100 pages ago that UKG were actively helping in trying to sort out this mess? Have we had anything from them at all? All that data and expertise and nothing?

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Havent had a peep out of AFA/UKG.

cheers Jason

spoons said:

mr_palitoy said:

spoons said:

]

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Sorry muddled up your 21bs and AFA90s - both will do, pm me some close ups, I thought you may appreciate an impartial eye.

Gap analysis would be good too

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I don't have any close ups. I've looked at a few and can see the seals look dodgy.


The AFA 90 focus is here:-

http://www.starwarsforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3241

and

http://www.starwarsforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1728

2-1b fcous is here (esb 45 back single stem and double stem german cards and single and double stem palitoy rotj 45c):-

http://www.starwarsforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3582

cheers Jason

spoons said:

Double stemmed looks good from a distance - is it a narrow bubble or dimpled?

Only seen the single stem as part of the diisplay

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Double stem:-



Single stem:-



cheers Jason

Originally Posted by mr_palitoy View Post
I really wanted to through the book at this MOC but I couldn't. The bubble seal looks as sweet as it gets.
There is a fair amount of bubble scrapes inside from the figure bouncing around inside the large Tri Logo bubble
over the years and I can see some white wear on the back of the figure (is this common?).

Compared against 2 used cardbacks I can see that the used cardbacks both used double stem bubbles, one of which has
the circle pattern at the top and pressing on the back that was done by the factory machine.

There are the same print flaws on the AFA 85 MOC and the used cardback done by the factory machine
so nothing to go on there.

This one passes for now.

And the AFA report has 10 graded. 3 are 85, 4 are 80, the other 3 I don't know, so it's not exactly raining minty walrusmen for this figure.

But... between 2007 and 2013 his ebay account has sold:-

17 x Palitoy ROTJ Walrusman 45bk (+ 1 Clipper ES

Which is worrying...

cheers Jason

Have added Walrus Man to the matrix on my guide. There's no smoke without fire.

cheers Jason

Sorry guys, just a reminder but can you all not post general findings and ideas in this thread. This is for FACTS only! We don't need another thread with pages and pages of speculation, please put any of your ideas in that thread so they can be discussed.

AFA Items Sold by ToyToni.com AFA 90-95----AFA95----AFA90----AFA85----Total Graded----Total Unused Cards
Palitoy ESB 45A bossk----------------------------------01--------12--------14----------29---------------1000
Palitoy ESB 45B chewbacca-----------------------------00--------01--------01----------02----------------132
Palitoy ROTJ 45C luke skywalker (brown hair)----------00--------03--------01---------04-----------------0
Clipper ESB 45 walrusman-------------------------------00--------04--------04---------12------------------56
Clipper ESB 45 white bespin guard-----------------------00--------05--------03---------09-----------------138
Clipper ESB 45 hammerhead-----------------------------00--------05--------05---------10------------------69
General Mills ESB 45 han solo hoth-----------------------01--------08--------12---------22-----------------563
General Mills ESB 45 han solo bespin---------------------02--------09--------08---------19-----------------162
General Mills ESB 45 han solo----------------------------01--------12--------10---------25-----------------194
General Mills ESB 45 storm trooper-----------------------00--------03--------12---------20-----------------526
General Mills ESB 45 c3po-------------------------------00--------03--------05---------08-----------------357
Palitoy ROTJ 65A c3po----------------------------------00--------07--------07---------16----------------1234
Palitoy ROTJ 65A leia boushh----------------------------00--------05--------07---------17------------------30
Kenner ROTJ 77A bossk---------------------------------00--------02--------14---------22-------------------0


Not On Unused Carded List----------------------AFA95----AFA90----AFA85----Total Graded
Palitoy ESB 45 walrusman-------------------------------00--------00--------01---------01
Palitoy ESB 45 white bespin guard-----------------------00--------00--------01---------01
Palitoy ESB 45 hammerhead-----------------------------00--------00--------00---------00
Palitoy ESB 45 han solo hoth----------------------------00--------00--------01---------01
Palitoy ESB 45 han solo bespin--------------------------00--------00--------01---------02
Palitoy ESB 45 han solo---------------------------------00--------00--------00---------02
Palitoy ESB 45 storm trooper----------------------------00--------00--------07---------21


Kenner AFA scores----------------------------------AFA95----AFA90----AFA85----Total Graded
Kenner ESB 45 bossk------------------------------------00--------00-------03---------03
Kenner ESB 45 chewbacca-------------------------------00--------00-------02---------03
Kenner ROTJ 48 luke skywalker (brown hair)-----------00-------00--------02--------12
Kenner ESB 45 walrusman--------------------------------00-------00--------00--------04
Kenner ESB 45 white bespin guard------------------------00-------00--------00--------01
Kenner ESB 45 hammerhead------------------------------00-------00--------00--------02
Kenner ESB 45 han solo hoth-----------------------------00-------00--------03--------04
Kenner ESB 45 han solo bespin---------------------------00-------00--------03--------05
Kenner ESB 45 han solo----------------------------------00-------00--------02--------10
Kenner ESB 45 storm trooper-----------------------------00-------00--------01--------02
Kenner ROTJ 48 c3po------------------------------------00-------00--------01--------04
Kenner ROTJ 65 c3po------------------------------------00-------00--------20--------50
Kenner ROTJ 65 leia boushh------------------------------00-------00--------00--------00
Kenner ROTJ 77 bossk-----------------------------------00-------02--------14--------22

I've picked all the AFA graded items sold from ToyToni website that scored higher than 85 and looked up AFA for how many exist.
All the AFA grades of 95 have all been from ToyToni sold stock and I would imagine that the majority of 90's are also from ToyToni as he had more than one for sale.

The interesting thing that I'm trying to show is that if you compare the scores to the equivalent Kenner cards hardly anything scores higher than 85.
The irony is that the only items scoring 90 (ROTJ 77 Bossk) came from ToyToni. Now you might think that it's just down to more Palitoy cards surviving but if
you pick out Palitoy cards that are not on the unused card list the numbers come out like the Kenner examples. Shouldn't there be just as many good Palitoy Hoth Han's as
German cards?

Updated with new info confirming Antoni as selling unused card backs despite denying ever seeing any.

http://www.starwarsforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=18756&p=264616#p264616

RKW1138 said:

Updated with new info confirming Antoni as selling unused card backs despite denying ever seeing any.

http://www.starwarsforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=18756&p=264616#p264616

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Toni said this to me on that subject via email:-

"hi yes that sounds about right- despite there being several lists with large numbers of loose cards as far as I know only a handful actually turned up-they came my way and were bought by an American guy as in his post I don't remember which figures they were .Probably best to mention that Arthur Bailey died about 5-6 ago .Toni"

cheers Jason

so any updates on the situation?

In the big thread there seems to be a lot of "is this correct or a toni recard?" going on still.

has anyone heard from toni?

his silence on the matter rings alarm bells.

Have analysed all 23 of my suspected Tonis, posted analysis and pictures for each along with a used shop sold cardback, and a summary/conclusion at the end.

I welcome comments on what I have posted.

http://www.starwarsforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=19154

cheers Jason

I have eliminated 65A and 65B cards from the Toy Toni Matrix. All my examples and the ones I can find on google images are 65C. So if you have the Nien Nunb
offer on the back you are safe, if you have the Chewbacca offer you are not. It appears that Logray and Leia Boushh can only be found as 65C on Toy Toni stock,
both of these card/figure combos were thought not to exist until I looked at mt Tonis and googled an AFA graded Logray on the web.

I have update my guide to reflect this and also to highlight that the sub variations 45CC, 45CN, 65CG and 65CN are not from Toni's stock.

This should further help to die down affected cards and help AFA/UKG to make some informed choices when cleansing their databases if they choose to use my guide.

cheers Jason

Have updated my guide to give better guidance about what bubble variations are thought genuine, and which are thought to be Tonis:-

http://www.freewebs.com/mrpalitoy/esb45bcardback.htm

http://www.freewebs.com/mrpalitoy/rotj45ccardback.htm

http://www.freewebs.com/mrpalitoy/rotj65acardback.htm

http://www.freewebs.com/mrpalitoy/rotj65bcardback.htm

http://www.freewebs.com/mrpalitoy/rotj65ccardback.htm

http://www.freewebs.com/mrpalitoy/rotj65dcardback.htm

Have also added clipper stickers to:-

http://www.freewebs.com/mrpalitoy/esb41bcardback.htm

http://www.freewebs.com/mrpalitoy/esb45acardback.htm

http://www.freewebs.com/mrpalitoy/rotj45ccardback.htm

Hope that helps everyone figure out what is genuine and what isn't.

cheers Jason

Ok, have rewritten the 45b, 45c and 65d with single stem bubbles with embossed numbers in the correct places.

http://www.freewebs.com/mrpalitoy/esb45bcardback.htm

http://www.freewebs.com/mrpalitoy/rotj45ccardback.htm

http://www.freewebs.com/mrpalitoy/rotj65dcardback.htm

cheers Jason

I've recently written to UKG and enquired whether they are still grading the effected card backs. I received this reply:

"due to the on going situation and the fact that it is now a legal matter we have ceased grading on some of the carded palitoy and GM figures, this is until the matter has been resolved."

Do we know how far into the legal process this has gone?

Yeah.

A call went out. Only a handful filed a complaint.

No news yet.

UKG are sticking their head in the sand by suggesting legal action is stopping them grading TT junk. They should just tell the truth that they won't grade any suspect figure/cardback combinations rather than hiding behind some made up legal argument.

They sound like a premier league footballer who's papped in a compromising position with a page 3 model. They need to man up and stop waiting for AFA to decide what to do.