Long Time suspected FAKE baggies scam / seller

momike

Jedi Master
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UK
Another sw d
 

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momike

Jedi Master
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Iffy meccano
 

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momike

Jedi Master
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516
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UK
Iffy palitoy
 

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momike

Jedi Master
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516
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UK
Super iffy pal-I baggie he had on eBay
 

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Marty _Norfleet

Youngling
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Hi, I bought these Palitoy Fett baggies from a guy in the UK in April. I sent them into AFA and they say not only did this figure not come in this type of baggie, they both have overlapping paint on the head and belt which differs in color texture and accuracy from the original paint underneath. I have posted some pictures under a blacklight. When AFA inform me about the baggies I gave them the go-ahead to inspect the figures. The main reason I bought these 2 figures was because I've been trying for years to find a near perfect example.
 

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finestcomics

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momike said:
I don't think any one has come out and said Jeff is out and out faking these baggies himself and even if he was I doubt that could be proven so let's just leave that alone.

This is the second time someone's tried to address this like no one really cares about it anymore.

None of your reputations are hanging in the balance like Jeff's is.

There was an accusation made (which other members have already quoted at least once) from the OP.

If it can't be proven, an official post needs to be made in this thread, preferably retracting it, as well as erasing it from the OP with an EDITED remark describing the reason why it was removed from the list of accusations.

I wasn't too enthused that we had to find out one of the names from the investigative team was removed ONLY after someone noticed it and brought it up.

Let's keep things transparent moving forward because revisionism has a tendency to create distrust.
 

momike

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Here's a tusken raider from recent listings, no discription of the type of Baggie this is, frank said he has no idea what it is but it's not right
 

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momike

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Here's one very similar to the one above from his completed listings that looks very wrong
 

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momike

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Someone mentioned fake mailers a thew posts back, here's a couple of bossk mailers he sold some time ago that had fake boxes/labels, can't say if the baggie or bio was fake for sure
 

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momike

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Don't know what's going on here but the label on this Pali mailer is fake as (eBay)
 

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turkdlit

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66
This whole thing is just another one of many examples that makes me really question the intentions of the "community".

We should be looking to protect one another. Those were Frank's intentions...his heart is in the right place. People are criticizing him for "not going about this the best way possible." Or absolving someone of wrong doing because they are mild mannered. Or giving them a pass becauze he seemed "nice" in person.

News flash guys - how about not selling tons of fake baggies that other collectors have returned to you as confirmed fakes?!?!?!?!?

Talk about not seeing the forest through the trees. Sheesh.
 

Frunkstar

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Right sorry for my delay getting back on here to post a reply, it's been a busy day & not had time get on with other commitments.

First point I would like to go into is the accusation of Jeff actually making baggies, as I put in the OP - " if he is not making them himself then he is heavily involved in selling them as nearly all examples that we have confirmed trace back to him either directly or indirectly" which everyone seems to be up in arms about.

You can see by the above statement that it was never stated "he is making them" it was stated that he could be making them or having them made with so many (most of them) tracing back to him, so if we remove the is he isn't he making them from the equation, as short of a photo of him sitting there with a stamper or stencil & baggie in hand it's a mute point & one we most likely never be able to resolve (sadly), the point was made due to so many all tracing back to the same place & maybe indeed poor wording on my part.

So focusing on the main issue IMO which would be has he & is he selling fakes knowingly & has he been doing so for long enough to have been made aware of these fakes, I would have to say a firm yes, I am not the only one to have returned multiple baggies to him for a refund & made him fully aware of the issues with each when I have done so.

Are we good friends as Jeff has made out to everyone & not just in the podcast which BTW no I have not listen'd to, no we are acquaintances who have spoken via email & phone on numerous occasions, for the most part Jeff asking me for info on various baggies, like conformation of types & values, I have always answered all questions he has asked to the best of my understanding as I do with everyone who wants help & on occasion I have told him this baggie & that baggie is not right & not to sell it on, sadly the red baggie I spoke of before were indeed offered up for sale after I said they were not right, also very sadly I do not have screen grabs to confirm this as it was about 2 years ago & at a time I did not know how to do screen shots as I am not what you would call very I.T savvy myself, but they were indeed sold back off on his account.

As for the podcast thing, I feel it's a total farce! I requested that no other forum or other face book group this was linked on have comments on & that ALL discussion regarding this be in one place for no other reason than clarity, so everyone writes things down in black & white & the information provided can be looked at by all in one place & both sides of the situation looked at in detail, as I said I spoke with Jeff directly on the phone for an hour & a half & he confirmed he would post on here, not on face book not on an interview but I see that never materialized & a hastily done podcast was put together, the podcast done by those who most vehemently defended Jeff on here might I add, not one member of the investigations group was contacted in any way to ask if there are any prudent questions that should be put forward, nor were any members of the team asked if they would be willing to be interviewed, I even spoke to one of the interviewers who said there were 10 minutes to prepare before the interview - seems really well thought out that & I am sure many questions that needed asking were omitted, this is not a judge of character not to find out if I or Jeff are nice fellows to chat to.

Whilst on the subject of the podcast, I have been asked on at least 3 occasions if I would be willing to do a slot for one on baggies, each time I have declined as public speaking is not my thing at all, hell I don't even like chatting on the phone if it can be helped, the written word or face to face conversations is where I am more comfortable, so thats the way I do things & always have done.

& still on the same subject really - why could jeff not take a moment to make an account on her as he said he would, hell it's take no time at all & here is a very easy user interface thats simple to use, much easier than ebay, yet he manages to post a reply on face book in the only place it's likely to not get seen by many as it'son the pinned rules post, I just don't buy the I am not tech savvy thing one bit, I am not great on computers myself, but I know here is a lot easier to deal with than ebay is, I have not got a smartphone, I do not own an I'pad or I'pod or whatever they are, hell I don't even know how to do a simple spreadsheet, yet I manage fine here, it's not rocket science really is it.

15 to 20 baggies in question - really??, think we have unearthed more than that with the few members in the investigations group alone of which only a few are big time baggie collectors, I still have a few myself all from Jeff that I should have spotted earlier, but after dealing with him for some time a level of trust builds up or at least one thinks so, one becomes a little complacent with checks when most is good & only a a few are off, so when I became more skeptical I started going over all of them in more detail & found a few that had slipped by, it's taught me to be more vigilant in future no matter who I buy from.

So if all the baggies being returned as fake are indeed being kept "isolated" so as not to be sold on, can we please see said box of questionable baggies as it would help Jeff's case.

If indeed most of these came from a single or a couple of sellers & the purchases where for thousands of pounds, surely there must be some records / receipts with cooperating photos or lists with a name maybe, again something that would make a huge argument that they have indeed been bought on for onward sale innocently.

It's is by far not just the few I posted about in the OP, there's the Commando baggies that were for sale in bulk, the trash monster baggies again in bulk, could be overstock?, yes could be, but both unconfirmed & will not grade & no provenance or for that matter where they came from, then there's the EB sets, the Bossk mailers (multiples) with fake boxes not just fake baggies- where did they come from??, plus this has only just been put out here, so other collectors all need time to check their collections & cross check where they came from if they have some questionable looking ones so REAL numbers can be gauged.

The refunds no questions asked - would seem to be a good customer service standpoint & what I thought it was, am as as sure about that now - no

So in short - am I sure many many baggies have been sold that should have been easily identified by the seller & never got as far as being sold - yes 100%, were many sold & could have been overlooked easily as not so obvious - yes it can happen to anyone, the ToyToni thing proved that, have some been sold on after being informed they are not correct - yes, but only the red text ones I can confirm 100% for sure.

I would love to think I am wrong & Jeff is a total innocent, as many have said he seems a really nice guy, but then so do many folks we meet through this life & years on we change our minds due to experiences & being let down or worse totally screwed over by a preson we though we could trust without question, the fact that made me make this public in that manor I did is that many of the baggies are so obviously fake even by novice collector standards let alone someone who has by all accounts been buying / selling & collecting baggies for twice as long as I have begs belief, the ESB-b baggies with obviously repainted logos ?? the SW-b baggies with text that rubs off if you look at them the wrong way which have heat seals that do not match & are obviously nothing like genuine known examples (very easy to see with the naked eye) & are thinner material as well as considerably narrower than a regular baggie??, if it were just one red flag on them yes but so many obvious flaws on a single baggie & it slips by, I just can't see it.

What do I stand to gain by this?? - not a dam thing!

1. I lose a contact to buy from who has more baggies for sale than any other

2. most likely baggies devalue for a good long time till the damage can be undone, so I really stand to gain by putting them in question with 90% of my collection being baggies

3. I get my name dragged through the mud & questioned which was obvious from the start, as it was obvious many would leap to Jeff's defense as they did with ToyToni & Billy Boy at the time

Bear in mind 90% of the baggies that are in question never made it to public auction on Jeffs selling platform (ebay) & were sold behind closed doors to collectors he has dealt with previously, why when they would most likely if genuine/rare & desirable bring more at auction if legitimate - not one of those ESB-b Fett's not any of the red sticker meccanos made it to public light, those being the easiest to spot as fakes & on that point, Jeff being the professed "really good friend of mine" why were none, not a single one ever offered to me for sale? with him knowing I am always on the look out to add the harder to find items to my own collection.

I have more evidence but it's late & I am tired so I will post some more actual evidence in terms of photos etc on a fresh pair of eye's & a clearer head soon as I am able.
 

finestcomics

Padawan
Joined
Jan 16, 2013
Messages
173
Did you, or did you not post these words?

faked_by_him_zpsghoewanz.jpg


Also, can we resign to a neutral ground where you aren't comfortable talking on the podcast, and Jeff's chosen to discuss it on the podcast, as the way it will be?

Bagging on the podcast, especially by alluding to a lack of "impartiality" is not flying with me, especially since the members took the time to pause and address this subject before the interview. Conversely, it's already taken three attempts at respectfully asking your "team" to retract the statement that Jeff made these, which in my mind is either attributed to being obtuse, biased or a potent combination of both.

IF the plan is to provide proof, please provide links, screenshots, preferably pointing to examples members here can look-up and reference themselves rather than taking your word for it.
 

Lindo

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momike said:
Here's a tusken raider from recent listings, no discription of the type of Baggie this is, frank said he has no idea what it is but it's not right
frank says he has no idea whats wrong with it but hey might as well throw it in there as fake, I don't understand this, how can it be said that something is wrong when you have no idea if it is?

It also keeps getting said by numerous members of the "team" that it has never been said Jeff has faked these, yes it has in black and white why is no one acknowledging that fact? if it is an error then it needs to be said.
 

Bonsai_Tree_Ent

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Joined
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Messages
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The central issue regards one of the top baggie dealers selling fakes, but there are a number of smaller debates taking place around that. One of those is the ethics of outing without giving the 'bad seller' forewarning.

The truth is that this forum (and others) have a 'watch out' section, and have had for years - and in that section forewarning a seller that there name is about to appear in a negative light does not appear to be common practice at all. Here's just one example, there are many, many more...

Ebay seller smithswotnots Avoid!!!

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Quote






Postby Lee Gregory » Wed Nov 04, 2015 4:40 pm

Just to let forum members know about this seller and their practices, please do not buy from them...

I has two BIN items at £100 each on ebay, both were steals a POTF Luke Stormtrooper and Han Poncho, both looked legit and in good condition.

Seller stated they were away and couldn't post out for 10 days or so, fine I thought I'm prepared to wait.

Time for posting came and they contacted me saying they had refunded my eBay purchases which they did. My suspicions were starting to grow, but as they were a relatively new seller with 100% feedback thought I'd give benefit of the doubt.

I then get a invoice on PayPal for the two cards, with a bit knocked off as they had messed me around. I paid the invoice as was assured figures were sent out Special Delivery, I have asked for tracking numbers which are obviously fake as they are not recognised by the Royal Mail site.

I was also offered 3 further figs one a Rotj Fett for £100, but I held back as I had my suspicions b this point.

I have opened a PayPal dispute to try and get my £ back, which although off eBay I'm hopeful PayPal will refund me.

Guys name is Sam Willis
Email [email protected]


Don't get duped guys and girls
 

edd_jedi

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You guys are picking holes in a couple of minor ways things were worded, yet completely ignored the entire stack of evidence momike just posted? Unbelievable.
 

edd_jedi

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Lindo said:
frank says he has no idea whats wrong with it but hey might as well throw it in there as fake, I don't understand this, how can it be said that something is wrong when you have no idea if it is?

What Frank means is he has no idea what baggie type it is supposed to be. Quite simple really - it is not a known baggie type and/or figure combo.
 

edd_jedi

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Bonsai_Tree_Ent said:
The central issue regards one of the top baggie dealers selling fakes, but there are a number of smaller debates taking place around that. One of those is the ethics of outing without giving the 'bad seller' forewarning.

The truth is that this forum (and others) have a 'watch out' section, and have had for years - and in that section forewarning a seller that there name is about to appear in a negative light does not appear to be common practice at all. Here's just one example, there are many, many more...

Absolutely, some incredible double standards going on here. I'm very disappointed in a lot of the responses by people here who think this was done on a whim with no hard evidence. There are DOZENS of pieces of evidence scattered throughout this thread.
 

Richard_H

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Aug 5, 2012
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Gateshead UK
The Kenner baggies with white paint are clearly and obviously fake. Ok that appears to be concrete.
They were first sold 2 years ago?

So, where is the watch out thread? Lots of popular saying (especially on FB) that these are bloody obvious. Can someone send me a link of the watch out thread as surely the buyers would have done this as I've never seen them before.

Re: podcast

Frank has been asked to come on 3 times in the past and declined. Jeff has been asked to come on here and declined. Stalemate IMO.

It's unfair to say we're biased / defending him. One of us was kept out of the interview as he is too close to Jeff. I have no idea if he'd class him as a friend. Without the podcast we'd not have heard the other side.

10 mins prep time shows that this was not prepared and shows it's raw. Whoever told Frank the contents of the podcast has got it wrong. We have not or ever defended the guy as totally innocent.

I have 3 points and all of the names listed as accusers need to address this

1. Jeff HAS been accused of making baggies in the OP. Ignored by a few. See Joes screenshot above.

IMO there is no evidence of this. If this can't be supplied then it should be retracted and an apology made. If there is proof then of course he will be the new TT.

2. Jeff has been accused of selling fake baggies with knowledge. We need to see this evidence as I haven't seen it yet. An email or any message that says Jeff those Bossk mailers are fake and this is why. Then screenshots from eBay. That'd be job done. There is no evidence of this yet.

3. Jeff has been accused of selling fake baggies without knowledge or due care. Jeff has admitted to selling baggies that turned out to be fake. Has anyone contacted Jeff for a refund for a fake confirmed by Frank (or the accusers) and been refused a refund? If so, I'd like to see it.

Jeff contacted me last night. He is not a technophobe, my mistake. He does not want an online profile which is his right. It is not an admission of guilt. He is not refusing to respond to emails or phone calls.

Swfuk cannot demand that all correspondence goes here.

So what are the next steps? Well, he's offered to take the baggies to Frank but I accept there'd be a doubt that all baggies have been sent. Frank lives in the arse end of nowhere so it's difficult to get to him. There are others who live near Jeff.
 
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