Long Time suspected FAKE baggies scam / seller

edd_jedi said:

finestcomics said:

Did you, or did you not post these words?

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I have edited that line to say they are known to be fake and sold by Jeff.

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Edd, that is the bit that got me (possibly others) most uncomfortable about the whole post. The accusers, we are led to believe, supported that and we have seen no evidence. More than a mod edit is needed there.

For what's it's worth it seems to me that there is a separate issue from whether Jeff made them or not which we all know is going to be virtually impossible to prove. I will however refer to my previous point which one or two others have touched upon and can't be ignored:

"Am I right in thinking that the "hand painted" kenner baggie of which a pic was posted in this thread as well as the red stickers meccano baggies are meant to have been sold by Jeff?

If so, one thing I would seriously question is how someone who has a thousand baggies and has been collecting them for so long isn't able to spot the blatant fakes that have been posted on this thread. Especially if they have other examples they can use for comparison??

I'm not suggesting that those in question were made by Jeff personally but if he did sell them and didn't spot they were fake, he is either completely naive (which I fail to believe given his past dealings in the world of baggies ) or he knowingly turned a blind eye."

People are getting very hung up on the public outing of this and evidence around whether he physically faked them himself and ignoring this important point. If he turned a blind eye to this even or chanced his arm knowing they might have been fake then thats almost as bad as making them. The person selling the fake Ralph Lauren at the local market is as bad in my eyes as the folks making them.

To suggest that Jeff was naive to the extent that he didn't know some of these ones he sold were fake or at least highly suspect seems pretty ludicrous. Well to me at least.

Here's one watch out thread from three years ago Rich which I have already linked to twice:

http://www.starwarsforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=19041

My main issue with the podcast is the fact Jeff was practically pardoned by you guys at the end. I appreciate you doing the interview, but it was not your place to do that. You had no evidence, your opinion was based on the fact he was a nice guy.

The person who stole my collection 10 years ago was a nice guy too. He was liked by many on this and other forums. When I first spoke to him on the phone he also sounded incredibly vulnerable, upset and afraid. It doesn't mean dick I'm afraid.

Oops. I state the following so people understand my position.

15-20 is clearly wrong. We're looking at more than that number.

I have told Frank that he is an expert IMO. He's knowledge is not in doubt. I know Frank far better than I know Jeff

We want him to come to FF so people can talk to him. People can show him baggies and look at his stock. Far better than him going into hiding.

There was no pardon.

Edit -

My opinion is not based on the fact he seems nice. I do not throw people under the bus unless I see evidence. There is evidence of him selling fake baggies but no more IMO yet. I need more before an opinion either way is formed.

Where are the other accusers? I appreciate the efforts put in by monike and Frank which clearly shows fakes traced back to Jeff. Well, actually fakes we've been told trace back to Jeff, but I'm not going to doubt it. Surely that says a lot?

That linked thread has hardly any posts and I can't see the pic so can't tell what it was. Not that I doubt you, I know it's the one now. it's not the evidence I'm looking for but it does show that from 3 years one concern was raised and a refund was issued. Now, did an accuser discuss these with Jeff? Did Jeff contact Frank about these? Need more on this

Jeff's eBay feedback for selling one of the red text baggies that he denied he resold:



http://feedback.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&ftab=FeedbackAsSeller&userid=j10e5f6f6&iid=-1&de=off&items=25&interval=0&searchInterval=30&mPg=55&page=16

Now this is more interesting. I don't you think realise that we don't have what you guys do. What you've given us is not strong enough after a very damning post.

I'm off to work now but will read that carefully and more of this needs to come forward.

I think it might be a good idea to start another thread with just evidence and no discussion like we did with Toni. There is a **** load of concrete evidence in this thread and sadly it is being buried.

Great idea. If we could address the 'knowingly' I'd be very interested. We've got the 'has' bit.

Done, please let me know if I've missed anything important:

http://starwarsforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=32568

edd_jedi said:

Done, please let me know if I've missed anything important:

http://starwarsforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=32568

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Could it be pinned for a couple of weeks at least as it will just sink with it being locked?
Cheers

Good idea! Done

Looking through the new thread there are some duplicated photos and photos of the same the figure taken from a different angle.

How many fake baggies do the accusers have between them? Looking through the thread id say there were 30 to 40 unique figures? Is that right?

Frank would have to answer that but aside from individual figures I do know many multiples of the Dionaga, Probot, Rebel Commando and trilogo Fett have been sold.

Not related to baggies but here's feedback for selling a repro vinyl cape Jawa, this alone would be worthy of pitch forks on here most days

The Claim: Jeff has been selling fakes with malicious intent and defrauding buyers.

All we have is that Jeff has been selling baggies, of which an unknown amount is fake.

The podcast interview has giving you 90 minutes' worth of information from the other side. Plenty of information there surely to highlight inconsistencies with an investigation that has been going on for apparently a long time.
You got Jeffs response fast tracked. Those 90 minutes could have taken days to write. You have a ton of information now to show the rest of us of this malicious intent to deceive.

I agree, it seems strange that Jeff is not techsavia enough to have a forum response. I also feel the same that Frank has the same issue.
I don't know why you don't just release all the information you have. Show the emails and sales.
The interview came because I called Jeff. He stated that he had received messages from multiple buyers requesting a full refund on all baggies going back years. Totalling thousands and thousands of pounds. He stated that he had either been threatened directly or had read threats online. I can't remember.

What was clear was that Jeff needed a response ASAP. I know that he is not part of this community, and as far as I know, his main support in the community is on holiday in Las Vegas and is in no position to give him the support he needs. Unlike the other side you have a massive social network with collectors who are willing destroy Jeff before he has even given a response. His Paypal account has also been blocked which has also caused extra stress in issuing refunds.

I happy to be convinced that Jeff has been selling fakes as an act of fraud, the reason I haven't so far is that the investigation has failed to show any evidence apart from he has sold fakes amongst 100's of deals.

I have to ask, why would he sell fakes, knowing that collectors could get them graded? Why would he bring fakes to Farthest From and allow specialists to go through 150 baggies and take as many photos as they want.

The sting operation at FF, well not much of a sting as word had got out that your investigation was happening, and I believe apart from Marc Hockley and Jeff, collectors knew about it. 150 baggies were checked, and I believe 3 were questionable. Those were allowed to be photographed. Any more information on this?

Another reason I'm not convinced is that I have met Jeff a couple times. I'm sorry Jeff if your reading this, but in all honesty, I found him dizzy, incompetent and a complete scatterbrain. I struggle to believe that he dresses himself in the morning. Even this week he was met to send me a palitoy baggie in the post. I received a Kenner mailer. (I would to trade if anyone has an Ackbar).

I also found him to be open, friendly, happy - so open we can all go to his house and look at his collection- something I have not afforded anyone on this board. I don't see the malicious intent. How he came across is who he is.
He should not be selling baggies. I spoke to him yesterday and he has suggested getting UKG to get involved and perhaps getting everything he sells graded first.

I don't why an interception wasn't made months ago at least, would have saved a ton of sales. He seems quite happy to let people in. I don't know why collectors don't like the fact that Jeff was given a platform to defend himself. I don't know why no one met him or went to his home. I don't know why the claim is not reduced to a warning that Jeff is either knowingly or unknowingly selling fakes.

Going back to Toytoni. There was a ton of stuff that happened that wasn't on the boards. There was a lot going on with actionfraud, the police and the BBC that has never been disclosed. In fact, it was real close to provide undeniable proof that the claims were true. I spent so much in the eye of that storm, I wanted to leave collecting by the end of it. I don't get that here.

So far, all I believe is that Jeff is a complete dofus that has been selling fakes amongst a ton of legit baggies.

I would be grateful if you could provide evidence of Jeffs malicious intent and defrauding buyers. I'm a lot closer to people who have accused Jeff than I am of Jeff. I've been on international holidays with some of you, known you for 5 years, count you as friends, look forward to seeing you at conventions, massively respect your knowledge and am always hounding you to come on my podcast. But so far, I don't see the evidence of malicious intent to commit fraud.

You have the forum to produce all your findings. Your more than welcome to come on the podcast. The interview will probably be deleted soon as it was done as a service to forward your investigation.

I hope this all ends well for everyone.

That is a good idea. Keeping evidence in one place is better with no comments. I'm going to read it fully tonight.

Grant_C said:

The Claim: Jeff has been selling fakes with malicious intent and defrauding buyers. All we have is that Jeff has been selling baggies, of which an unknown amount is fake.

I happy to be convinced that Jeff has been selling fakes as an act of fraud, the reason I haven't so far is that the investigation has failed to show any evidence apart from he has sold fakes amongst 100's of deals.

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Check the evidence thread, I have found eBay feedback for Jeff selling the red text baggies he denied he sold in your interview.

Grant_C said:

it seems strange that Jeff is not techsavia enough to have a forum response.

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This is simply not true. Anybody with nearly 3000 feedback on eBay over 9 years is competent of posting on a forum.

Grant_C said:

His Paypal account has also been blocked which has also caused extra stress in issuing refunds.

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I think more info on this is needed - if he doesn't need to sell baggies for money, surely refunding everybody is no problem? So why is his paypal account frozen? I also buy and sell a lot on eBay and that doesn't happen for no reason.

Grant_C said:

150 baggies were checked, and I believe 3 were questionable. Those were allowed to be photographed. Any more information on this?

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So the fact Toni sold and continues to sell lots of genuine MOCs makes his fakes OK? Selling fake amongst genuine is one of the best ways of covering your tracks.

Grant_C said:

Another reason I'm not convinced is that I have met Jeff a couple times. I'm sorry Jeff if your reading this, but in all honesty, I found him dizzy, incompetent and a complete scatterbrain. I struggle to believe that he dresses himself in the morning. Even this week he was met to send me a palitoy baggie in the post. I received a Kenner mailer. (I would to trade if anyone has an Ackbar).

I also found him to be open, friendly, happy - so open we can all go to his house and look at his collection- something I have not afforded anyone on this board. I don't see the malicious intent. How he came across is who he is.

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Sorry Grant but your personal opinion on his character means nothing. As mentioned earlier I had known the person who stole my collection for 15 years before it happened, he had been to my house on many occasions. Nobody likes to admit they can be wrong about people but trust me from experience it happens.

Grant_C said:

I don't why an interception wasn't made months ago at least, would have saved a ton of sales. He seems quite happy to let people in. I don't know why collectors don't like the fact that Jeff was given a platform to defend himself. I don't know why no one met him or went to his home. I don't know why the claim is not reduced to a warning that Jeff is either knowingly or unknowingly selling fakes.

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What do you mean? Dozens of people have asked for refunds over the last couple of years? Nothing here is news. Jeff has been directly approached by Frank about selling fakes on several occasions but continued to do so. If I was "the baggie guy" as Jeff is, I would have brushed up my knowledge after selling a couple of fakes.

Also on the point of 3 out of 150 at FF being questionable, that is consistent with the allegation of 30-40 fakes from the 1000 he supposedly had. I think there could well be more but assuming it is 30-40, that would still mean almost 5% of his stock/collection was fake. Would you accept that from any other well respected, high volume seller?