Wow - this is shocking.

_Lee_

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If true, this is absolutely nuts.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EMtTq3phYv0&t=36s

Wow.
 

indianawars

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I watched this during my shift last night, and have to agree with him - live and and let live, ffs. Certainly no need for echo base to act the way they have/did. And this is why I'm no member of any FB groups.
 

_Lee_

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Glad it's not just me. I think that is awful treatment.

I bailed on the hobby a while ago because there are too many self appointed experts who deem themselves the collecting Police. If someone said that to me I would tell them to **** right off. Too many keyboard tough guys and basement virgins in the hobby now.

It makes me sick to be honest. I miss the good old days.
 

_Lee_

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And to add, inever have and never will have FB or any other such platforms. They are the biggest invasion of privacy both wanted and unwanted.
 

StarWarsFan

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_Lee_ said:
And to add, inever have and never will have FB or any other such platforms. They are the biggest invasion of privacy both wanted and unwanted.

Same here mate, I ****ing hate facebook, has caused that many problems over the years. People keep saying to me join facebook so you can join echo. My words are not even Star Wars can get me on there. Also can never understand why people what to put their lives on there and all this must have 100000 "friends". I will never know.
 

StarWarsFan

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_Lee_ said:
Glad it's not just me. I think that is awful treatment.

I bailed on the hobby a while ago because there are too many self appointed experts who deem themselves the collecting Police. If someone said that to me I would tell them to **** right off. Too many keyboard tough guys and basement virgins in the hobby now.

It makes me sick to be honest. I miss the good old days.

TBH i hardly collect SW these days sick of the trouble it has caused, not just with fakes but some dealers and collectors i've encountered have been horrible.
 

Palifan

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I'm glad someone posted this up as I also watched it last night and found the whole thing really interesting. I must admit that I've found Michael to be a angry of late, which is a shame to see as he should just get back to enjoying toys and not get so worked up at times but I felt he really hit it out of the park with this one.

Also I found the whole presentation really amusing with all of the clips he inserted into the video and although I felt it could have been a little shorter I could see that there was a lot to cover here.

A great video to end the year on and it is quite an eyeopener to how things have gone over time. Is Stan Solo really destroying the hobby or just helping some people own items that they could maybe never afford to own? It's a whole can of worms that question and I guess it's each to their own and as long as things are labelled correctly then you hope it doesn't harm that much (although I can see how it can in the wrong hands). For me educating yourself about what you're buying is your best bet and quite often I find that to be the most interesting part about owning an item.

Ian
 

jayums

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I agree, Ian. - michael has a genuine passion for the toys and collecting, and a lot of his videos are great - he certainly should be able to collect what and how he likes without getting abuse . If you don't like his channel - don't watch it! If you don't like repro - don't buy it !

I can see why long time collectors running groups don't want the same old repro arguments over and over again clogging up the group chat, but on the other hand, I also think that is a very closed shop, head firmly buried in the sand, attitude. We are where we are : in an era where it's increasingly possible to accurately reproduce the figures and accessories, to meet demand that is out there. There is far too much hypocrisy - If you are a staunch anti-repro collector who dictates what others should do whilst happily flogging leia blasters for 70+ quid a pop and flipping stuff for a quick profit, you shouldn't be surprised when high quality reproductions turn up. These two things are not unrelated.
 

Sundancer Squadron

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I do enjoy his videos as its not just focus purely on SW, the two of them have done a ton for the collecting community. I can sense the irritation in him is increasing and understandably so, he was targeted by another so called collector that brought toxicity to a whole new level. Have a look at the whole sail barge debacle, fortunate enough to of met him briefly and hes genuine as is his love and enthusiasm for collecting toys and information often overlooked by others.
 

theforceuk

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Amazing how some pricks can make this hobby so complicated. Great thread/post. Stay positive.
 

StarWarsFan

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Sundancer Squadron said:
I do enjoy his videos as its not just focus purely on SW, the two of them have done a ton for the collecting community. I can sense the irritation in him is increasing and understandably so, he was targeted by another so called collector that brought toxicity to a whole new level. Have a look at the whole sail barge debacle, fortunate enough to of met him briefly and hes genuine as is his love and enthusiasm for collecting toys and information often overlooked by others.

Yer saw the videos on the Sail Barge. The was so horrible to Mike, no need for it.
 

edd_jedi

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An interesting watch, I think there are valid points on both sides. Do some collectors take things too far? Absolutely, and things like death threats (even in jest) should not be tolerated. However completely denying that reproductions can have *any* downsides is also ridiculous, and some of the comparisons made in the video are silly - of course vintage cars don't have original era tyres, they have long since perished, wheras authentic action figure accessories for the most part have not. I think most collectors are open to replacing perishable things like Yoda's swamp foam, because like car tyres sourcing an original is impossible.

So I agree some of the anti repro lot should tone it down a bit (I wasn't aware of most of the things in this video) but equally the pro repro guys have to concede that their actions have some ethical and financial consequences. What he fails to acknowledge in the video is that Star Wars is by far the most 'mature' action figure collecting market, yes collectors of some other toy lines are fine with repros (I see it all the time in the MASK groups) but those collectors are making all the same mistakes now that SW collectors made 20 years ago, and he's kidding himself if he thinks at some point they also won't start questioning repros.
 

cracatilla

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Watched this and thought 'what a bunch of wankers!'
I try not to have any repros in my collection but understand that others will but it doesn't mean it's wrong.

Watched the videos about the sail barge and was well impressed that he was willing to fly half way round to world to deliver it to its rightful owner and also stick it to his detractors!!!

Yet another reason for me not to join Facebook

Edd Good point about the 'less' mature figures
 

_Lee_

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I couldn't beleive the bit where he says that some collectors were posing naked with star wars toys covering their private parts - WTF??

The sad thing about all of this is the conflict it is bringing into the hobby. I remember in the late 90s and early 2000s that the internet was a breath of fresh air into the hobby because it enabled networking and enabled friendships to be built. Fast forward to now and it is without doubt the worst thing ever to happen, not only in this hobby but in everyday life. Facebook has probably ended more friendships ,marriages and partnerships that anything else in history.

Regarding.collecting, many of these self appointed experts havent got a clue, and many seem to put themselves on a pedestal. Trust me, there are probably.a handful that have been there since the start and most of the others see it as an ego trip to make themselves look better. I can assure you now that most people know who these idiots are because its blatantly obvious they are doing it for personal gain. I also believe that people dont mean because of the hobby, it's because it affects their personal collection and they see repros as damaging their investments.

Supply and demand is another issue. It's a known fact that most kids lost the accessories with their figures pretty much straight away because they were meant as toys. Fast forward to now and millions of figures have no original accessories, and the prices people are asking for some is ridiculous. I have no issues with some people ( and there are more than you would think) that buy repro purely because of this. If other collecting areas accept them, why cant Star Wars?? The answer is that many vintage Star Wars collectors think of themselves as elite and that it is the pinnacle of ant toy collecting.

Regarding the replica carded figures etc, if someone wants to buy a replica MOC Trilogo R2D2 Pop up for £40 rather than £500 minimum for a real one then to some it's a no brainer. I have seen one of the R2 Trilogo and they are pretty much bang on, plus they are stamped on the rear of the card with SLC. IMO this guy is helping many collectors to realise a dream on a budget and isnt out to hurt the hobby. Its just that some become angry because in their own mental thinking, they beleive they should be asked about these and the damage they do to 'Their'hobby.

Trust me , we need to rid the hobby of these people. It's not the repros that are bringing this hobby down, but the selfish, ignorant an arrogant twats who deem themselves fit to criticise anyone and anything. Money and greed is a huge factor and too many think they are the big boys because they have deep pockets. Well I've probably owned more vintage, prototypes etc than they ever will.

Dont ever let anyone tell you what to collect or how to do it. Collect for you and have the balls to stand up and tell these arseholes to **** off.
 

DarthStanley

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I've no time for repro (especially when people sell it as original) & I would never have it in my collection but if people want to buy it who can't afford or don't want to pay the prices for original vintage then who I am to tell someone how to collect?,it's NONE of my business & I would NEVER do it.

I'm a member of a few Facebook groups but rarely interact & really only use it for buying & selling but the way some of those people lose their minds over repro items is quite ridiculous,they're little pieces of plastic ffs & there's more important things going on in the world right now to worry about.

It really is a pack mentality & is usually started by an admin or one of the regular more established members & then everyone else piles in.Last year I saw one guy ask about repro & one of the admins replied,instead of just saying we don't have repro on this group,he replied with a "**** you gif".There's a lot of unhinged people about & one day it'll end it really badly for one of them (especially the way some of the admin on those groups speak to people). :roll:

Unfortunately repro VSW items have been around since the 90's & whether we like it or not,they aren't going away.
 

Cazza

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I despise repro and would never knowingly buy it or keep it in my collection. I would ALWAYS advise against it, for the many reasons that we all know already. HOWEVER, as above, who am I to dictate to others how to collect? £150 for a pop-up saber?!!! You can see why people buy repro stuff.

There is a lot of 'Gatekeeping' in the SW communities, whether it's over-the-top repro hate or ridiculously severe anti-Kathleen/Disney sentiments. It's rather sad and anyone looking in from the outside must think it's all pretty unhinged and bizarre, especially with the real issues that have hit us all in 2020. The sheer hatred generated and fueled in the FB groups is astonishing. Some of the admins/mods on the groups are given god-like status and the sycophants worship the ground they walk on, lapping up everything they say without question. There are so many who just blindly follow, just so they can try to be part of the 'it' crowd. When they smell blood, It's often like a pack of wolves all going in for the kill... all over toys and films :roll:

The worst thing about repro though, is the incredibly annoying use of the word 'Repo' instead. Boy, that gets right on my toot :lol:
 

UKS

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I think if you love the thing for its value to you rather than its value to others... then you are fine.

If SW is an investment, then this type of thing crushes that a bit.

I personally don't go for repro - yet I love TTs!

So I guess there is a line for everyone and I suppose we have should accept that. Transformers have had huge amounts of bootlegs and reissues and it does suppress prices but doesn't seem to suppress the fan community.
 

Robstyley

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That's interesting. It exposes some quite shocking, not even shocking but unpleasant, dickhead behaviour. And some of it I'd take with a pinch of salt to be honest. It sounds like grown men arguing and being arseholes about mass produced little pieces of plastic. In any hobby people get passionate and can take things very seriously. It's crazy really when you think how abusive people can get about old toys. I don't think this is even about what your opinion is, it's about people trying to push their opinion and will on others and being judgemental.

I don't like reproduction accessories or own any fake MOC's, that's my choice. In my loose figure cabinet it's all legit. But a few figures have the wrong or no accessory because I won't pay £100+ for one or have a repro. In my other cabinet two Stormtroopers have modern blasters, a Han has a snapped AT-AT Driver rifle made into a blaster, a Boba Fett has a G.I Joe gun that looks like it should be Boba Fetts blaster..! It's my collection, I can do as I please and I like a bit of different stuff going on. If someone wants repro, even if I don't like it or agree with it it's their choice. I've been quite vocal in the past about repros and repainting figures etc but the hobby has changed and the influx of collectors and lack of supply can only inevitably result in people finding ways to meet that demand. Maybe we do need to chill out a bit.
 

jayums

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If ever you want to illustrate the difference between this forum and Facebook groups, this thread is it.
 
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