ToyToni Palitoy TIE Pilot Comparison

Hi guys,

Following from Iain's Palitoy Chewbacca thread: http://www.starwarsforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=28793

I have picked up another Palitoy 45b ESB TIE Pilot.

The eBay description stated the following:

"This item was purchased direct from Steve at UKG from his personal collection so is 100% not a toy Toni carded figure so it's a good opportunity to get one. These came back from UKG last week so are all fresh never been taken out of the poly bag"

I have been trying to contact Steve at UKG all week as we want to have a discussion with him on the podcast prior to this item showing up.

You can see from the pictures below the Toytoni and a possible 45b Palitoy.

Note that the possible Palitoy 45b has a shop sticker for £1.50p from G.W Hurley and is graded by UKG.

Photo 1

This photo is probably best for comparison:



Photo 2

Note that the bubbles are wider and higher. The 100% Toytoni is snug



Photo 3

You can see a real difference here:



Photo 4

Another look at the bubbles that are different:



Photo 5

Check that neither have 00. number stamp on the bubble



Do you think this is a legit 45b or another Toytoni with a different bubble and a price sticker applied in a graded case?

Great side by side comparison, really useful :!:

Interesting find Grant

My take on all of this is that the card back is not going to be too much of a clue, since all of the stuff TT had was legit overstock and therefore original.

I feel you may be onto something here with the bubbles though. The logic I have applied to this is that there would have been several bubbles batch manufactured for each individual figure. So the factory would have received a box of bubbles from a factory labelled part number xxxxxxxxxx, which would have been the bubble for say the tie pilot. There would then be a person in the factory with those bubbles, assembling Tie fighter pilots that day. Toni would have received a few boxes of bubbles. They would have been legit but probably for a specific figure. He would have then gone on to use these for every figure. There is a lot of consistency in TT bubbles but perhaps they are going to be the biggest clue as to whats right and whats wrong. Incorrect bubble/figure combinations seem to be the key identifying feature, and this could give more clues along with the numbered bubble.

This is all theory and conjecture mind. No evidence to support this. It does seem though with stuff like this and Iains Chewbacca, there might be a bit more light at the end of the tunnel then we first thought.

Although, the only way I can feel someone could say this figure is 100% legit versus Toy Tonis is if they brought it from the shop themselves and had kept it from childhood.

Thanks Ben,

Am I right in thinking that the double stems didn't have (.00) bubble reference numbers on them?

Here is another Toytoni on eBay from THE CROOK. (Still waiting to hear from your solicitor or do a drive-by)

Like my Toytoni, it has the thin bubble and the gun is lodged into where the head is.

Would be great to see some pictures of legit double stems.

Here is some looks at the bubbles.

I tried matching to this cardback but I don't think its an exact science form to application of bubbles, but the larger one does match a little better. It has almost been impossible to photograph because of the acrylic.....



But when turned upside down, the bubblesize and difference in bubbles is apparent. The Toytoni TIE Pilot is squeezed in there. The larger bubble allows for TIE Pilots the spread arms and legs pose.





I'm not sure this adds anymore, but would love to see a large twin stem bubble Toytoni

The embossed numbers are just on single stem?

Thanks James.

Looking at the cardback- there is no way that a toytoni size bubble was used on it as the trace of the bubble is outside the figure race track. The Toytoni bubbles are to small and would leave bubble trace, not only on the race track, but with the bubble as well.



Still no closer to guaranteeing that TT used the correct bubbles, but I think the small twin stems are meant for another figure and can easily be dismissed.

I wonder what buuble the small one was used for.

Some good builds

Consistent with yours Grant, I've always found that the machine applied bubbles are generally flush to the bottom of the card (the operator had no control over placement as we saw in the Palitoy factory video) and often have a slight overhang. TT-made cards are never flush to the bottom of the card, there is always a few mm's gap from the bubble to the bottom of the card and you can see why as he'd have assembled them front-on and he'd have wanted them to look as perfect as possible (and could make sure they did look perfect).

As to which figure used that double stem bubble it looks like most humanoid characters did, so the Bespin humans through to humanoid ROTJs like Ackbar. So loads ...

The TFP TT your pics show looks wider bodied than the other (could be just camera angle), are any of the TFP sculpts wider bodied than others? We know he used whatever COO figure he could get his hands on, could this one be a rarer COO?

The majority of TIE Pilots have a wide stance. I don't why I never considered it before.

The figures arms in the TT Bubble have been squeezed into the bubble.

I think this will be the same for the single stem as well.

I'm going to have to try and pick up single stems for both to have a look.

If anyone else has any TFP PALITOY 45b's I would like to check it out.

I'll have a look at the 45a when I get in.

There's a lot less variation in the 30s and 45a bubbles - other then the obvious different shapes (R2 etc) it's either humanoid-thin so those used for any normal humanoid like Han Bespin, and humanoid-fat so those used for 4-LOM, HST etc. I think a TFP really belongs in the fatter bubble, but my 45a is in the thin bubble and has no movement whatsoever, whereas smthg like Han Bespin is quite loose. Perhaps the machine spec was written for the thinner bubble so that's what they used and never changed it? Can't see the stance on the 45a because of the footer, but it looks like the normal HK COO figure, as you'd expect.

Thanks Grant for the great info and the Comparison pictures :wink:

This is a great thread and the way ahead for all TT. Fantastic info.

Great thread Grant. One thing is for sure, Toni was a clever bastard for the most part.

Good stuff Grant. No double stem bubbles have numbers embossed on them. Toni had a large number of the double stemmed bubbles with a narrow gap between the double stems. He didnt have any double stemmed bubbles with a wider gap between the stems, These are only seen on shop sold cards. This is most apparent on the 45c boba fett:-

http://www.freewebs.com/mrpalitoy/rotj45ccardback.htm

cheers Jason

Excellent work Grant.

Here's a couple of very early pics of TT Tie Pilots. The small pic was from 1999 and the larger pic from 2004. Is it me or do the bubbles look a little larger than your TT. Apologies for the quality. Digi cameras weren't very good then.

Thanks for the reply guys.

Andy I would say that those bubbles are the same as my TT.

The figure is snug to the bubble, particular at the top.

It's not easy to work these things out. If I can find some more TT/45b's ......

Great stuff though, thanks again.

Hey Grant how's it going, I drove up and met Steve over a week ago and he mentioned he had recently sold his own personal 45b TP. He did say he actually picked it up himself from that shop years ago 8)

Hey man,

Yeah, I have tried to call Steve, but I luck.

Here's mine from very early on in my MOC collecting days



Always though the dark lines across the Film name were very odd compared to other cards I had :evil: