Long Time suspected FAKE baggies scam / seller

Thanks Matt. We had to be careful, didn't want him to hang up.

If anyone wants to reply may be better in pm. Would serve better to keep this thread clean now to study evidence from other thread.

I'm sorry to hear that you have been receiving snotty messages rich. That's totally not on. Im really surprised and disappointed to hear that. I dont know who would do that but I think it's clear your heart is very much in the right place as was the intentions of all the podcast crew when they conducted the interview.

Its very true that yesterday more concrete evidence came to light in terms of physically being able to paper trail certain items back to Jeff and in terms of discrediting some of the things he had been saying.

Its also true that I'm sure many people jumped on the bandwagon in blaming Jeff without the level of evidence we have now.

I can only speak for my self when I say this but I personally felt that there was already enough in that first post by Frank to make me think that Jeff was up to no good. Call it intuition or whatever but it really didn't add up.

This is franks accusations statement in the first post. He does clearly express that it is his "opinion" from the get go. He also clearly states that he feels that if Jeff isn't making them then he is heavily involved in selling them:

"As far as we can tell Jeff has been doing this for a long time (minimum 4 years), IMO making fake baggies / resealing genuine baggie with swapped out figures & has over that time been improving & trying to perfect those fakes, if he is not making them himself then he is heavily involved in selling them as nearly all examples that we have confirmed trace back to him either directly or indirectly, many baggie types have been confirmed to have been affected, though it would seem that as time has gone on & Jeff has become more confident in his deception & fraud the higher the ratio of fakes to genuine baggies he has been selling, this has to stop & stop now, hence me & the other guys involved wanting to make this pubic"

With it being franks opinion based on research he had done and links he had made I felt that it was a justified post. It was clear that they had some very good circumstantial evidence in that first post alone. Since that first post, more has come to light and links have been made back to historic examples/ watch outs but what I'm trying to say is that the first post was needed in order to get the ball rolling in bringing other points and evidence in. Yeah maybe it was like pulling off a plaster slowly rather than whipping it off but at least it is off now and hopefully things can move forward.

Seriously though the bashing of the podcast team is not cool guys whoever has done that. It was an almost impossible task that they did and we should recognise that they were in their hearts trying to do the community a service. In terms of pardoning Jeff, I personally don't think they did. I saw it as a group of nice guys trying to end the interview in as positive a way as possible given the circumstances .

I must start by qualifying I am a newly registered member of this forum though part of the initial investigation team. It has taken me a while to get on here due to work commitments and trying to get up to speed with the torrent of posts.
Kudos to Frank, Edd, Mike and some of the other guys for taking flak for calling it out as it is. There are many in the investigation group whom are passionate about baggies and don't stand to gain other than to see a clean up for the good of the hobby.

My dealings with Jeff started late last year when he listed a SW-a Han Solo and Lando on Ebay. I wrote to him offline to secure a deal for both, of which we now obviously know are fake.
Not long after I went on to buy another 3 baggies from Jeff, a ESB-c Yoda, ESB-f Han and a Pal k (or rotj-j) Tusken Raider. As my location is in Singapore, I requested Jeff to send them to Frank instead. He did for the Yoda and Han but funnily enough (at that point), he chose to send the Tusken Raider to me in Singapore instead which obviously cost him 3 times more. I remarked at that time to Frank why would somebody do that. That kicked off my suspicion and upon having the baggie in hand, conferred with Frank and we pretty much came to a consensus the TR was a fake as did the Sw-a Han and Lando (of which both these were sent directly to me as I paid for the international postage). On the other hand, sure enough the ESB-f Han and ESB-c that were sent to Frank were legit.

I will leave it to the group to make their own conclusions whether Jeff intended this all. I highly suspect he knows what he is doing, picking specific baggies to send to Frank and what not to, to avoid being called out.

First of all I would like to say sorry to Rich and the podcast guys if they have received abuse for their interview. People may not agree with them doing it just like some people do not agree with Frank making the initial post, but everybody here is trying to help so nobody should be receiving personal attacks. It has caused a division of opinion but I very much hope it doesn't ruin any friendships or put anybody off the forum, there are plenty of supporters on both sides and as Marc Hockley famously sang, "don't shoot the messenger!" We all know this conversation would not have worked on Facebook, it had to happen somewhere more permanent. If you want proof of that, check the post in the 12 back group today from the guy who can't be bothered to read this thread and wants the digest, typical Facebook attitude.

There has been a good comparison to TT - the reason some of this evidence was not posted sooner is simply because we didn't have it. Frank knew that making the post would bring new information out of the woodwork, it has. I wish people had given it more time after the initial post before jumping to conclusions.

I would like to retract my statement that the podcast hasn't helped. Without it we wouldn't have Jeff's denial of selling the red text baggies.

Although this is just a theory, I also think the recent posts by the other accusers discredit Jeff's claim in the podcast that there is no financial incentive for either selling or potentially making fake baggies. Andrew's example above, two loose figures worth a total of £30 are suddenly worth £500+ when in the correct baggie type. The blue Fetts Frank posted, £750+ each for figures worth £100 loose. Palitoy Yak Face baggies, £400+ for £100 figures. Saying there is no financial incentive here is nonsense regardless of how well off you are.

Thanks Edd.

Totally agree there is an incentive in some cases to fake baggies.

I was talking to someone yesterday who has fake baggies that he has bought from Jeff. He is not going to claim a refund because loose they're worth the same. In Edds example that is a clear reason.

I was thinking the same with the pbp Rebel soldier

Caswellbot said:

I was thinking the same with the pbp Rebel soldier

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Yes good point, 2 grand for a £200 figure. Even Alan Sugar would be interested in those margins!

Wow just so much to digest :!:

Obviously the great thing shown in all of this terrible corruption is the fantastic goodness and passion in our SW community :!:

I am sorry to hear of our beloved podcast team taking some stick-THAT WAS BANG OUT OF ORDER :!: :!:

I really feel for all the Baggie collectors out there(some real friends among u) and am v sad when I think about what destruction this evil has done to the Baggie market

I hope all the perpetrators end up paying big time in every way :!: :!: :!:

Richard_H said:

Thanks Edd.

Totally agree there is an incentive in some cases to fake baggies.

I was talking to someone yesterday who has fake baggies that he has bought from Jeff. He is not going to claim a refund because loose they're worth the same. In Edds example that is a clear reason.

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Don't forget we've seen a huge spike in loose figure prices. A loose figure may be worth the cost of a baggie today, if the baggie was bought before the spike - but I don't think he sold many baggies as loose prices at that time.

Obviously Frank and others involved ha e done a great job and Jeff is guilty of wrong doings

As others had said if the first post had shown a message to jeff that his red label figures were fake and he said ok i will take them out of circulation then a month later theres proof he still sold them, EVERYONE would have said hes a scammer and alot of bickering mght not have happened and this thread would be just 4 pages long lol

Sad to hear anyone is giving anyone else grief over this. I thought the interview was ill advised but all credit to the guys for trying to get both sides of the story.

Three days ago it's fair enough to generalise that the lack of evidence meant that some people did find the initial post distasteful, and that friends of Jeff thought the best of him.

Others saw this as just another watch out thread and assumed that Frank and the guys wouldn't make these claims without good reason.

With the latest posts I don't think there is any doubt that Jeff is selling baggies he knows are questionable. Unfortunately the 'Fett to order' sales and 'fakes straight to Singapore' makes it look like he's the source of those fakes. I really hope he's just a bit dishonest rather than the Toy Toni of the baggie world.

Jeff is full of ****. He's lied on the podcast about selling fake baggies that he has been told are fake. And he has been trying to do it without Frank finding out given the latest posts in this thread.

Jason

Am thinking the nx FF show will b a Baggie free zone :?

This is a truly shocking state of affairs, which after following the TT scandal is even more deplorable. I feel sorry for the victims of this fraud, it's just plain greed.

laurencedyer said:

I will add more substance to my inclusion in the coming day's as I have not been well the last week or so but thought it important to add this communication at this current point in time.

Whilst finalising my Baggie run and trying to acquire the last four baggies in December 2015 I was after a Fett and Jeff sent this image of these different Fetts available.
The Big Pick had not long happened and the Vader Case with the never had been seen complete set o ESB - b baggies came to light so naturally I was keen on the Fett.

Jeff had stated in the correspondence below that this was the only one and that he had and that he had had this for over 5 year's but now he has had a supply of illegitimate looking ESB - b Fett baggies for sale this year.

These where never previously in his collection from what he stated so where have they come from?

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Apologies for not being fully on this and Edd single handedly fighting our side yesterday but I have been unwell all week and had to have a full on accounts review in the day so couldn't support anything to then get home to find my house bloody burgled :evil:

Anyhow.

Jeff tells me in 2015 thay he has one last Palitoy i open Yak baggie, this statement I believe.



I try to negotiate the price naturally and he advised me he will keep his Yak, fair enough.



Jeff then at a later point tells me he couldn't initially find his Yak but had finally been able to find it and sends me the image's. These are correct for this known baggie type and he confirmed it was his last one.




Now all of this I am of the opinion was true at the time, but since then and similarly to the ESB-B Fetts there has been a demand in these rarer baggies with the one on the opening thread being one of the latest creations. This baggie type that has been created using a Palitoy a baggie. Seeing this baggie type highlighted raised grave concerns and also lead to Jeff contacting Frank just before Christmas as he knew that Frank was aware of it. Jeff told Frank that he thought that last 17 figures came in that baggie type which can only lead to speculation that he had them made to order. In my opinion and that is all it is with no firm proof baggies are being created as per the Yak and ESB-B Fetts for financial gain. Jeff may only be a front man in all of this but we need to find out where and by whom these baggies are being created by.

That is a good point Laurence. Where are these coming from? We need an audit trail and only one person can supply that.

I have taken this post directly from the investigation group rather than retype it out but it demonstrates the timescale incorrect baggies have been coming from this source.
I have had to omit/edit a small section of the response I recieved as it was of a personal nature and would be wrong of me to publish that although nothing with regards to the item or it's sourcing.

Right guys, I had a moment of embarrassment earlier this year when I sold a Han Pin Head SW-a baggie to our very own Andrew Neo. It was the first interaction I had had with him and he asked me to send the item to Frank so he could send it to UKG for grading.Frank popped around and collected it on his weekend excersion to Leicester and UKG then was planning to collect it two weeks later.
Frank met Steve 2 weeks later and Steve told Frank that he had failed the item for grading due to several reasons. There was a little tape slip on the baggie but millimeters and nothing to out of the ordinary for a near fourty year old baggie. He also mentioned that he thought the figure had a spot of paint rub on one arm although I cannot see this with my bare eye. The most notable thing for failing the baggie for grading was that the figure was packed with a black blaster and that Han came with a blue one. Frank and I first thought that a mispacked / weapons error baggie must be worth more until Steve clarified that the only figure to come with a black blater was Han Tranch, a Jedi figure not available until 1983 so therfore the baggie must be fake.
This obviously left me embarased and I felt my repetation had been jepordised although Andrew Neo has been the most understanding and honourable gentleman and has been patient whilst I delayed paying him back as I had used the cash.

Anyway, I've been two busy to go back to the buyer (who is a reputable trader mainly on Facebook especially in Tatooine) and challenge him until now with this investigation prompting me and asked him wher he got it from and this was his reply. Surprise surprise where this goes back to.

"Laurence not ignoring you, Star Wars is off my radar at the moment. I'm gonna check my graded one later. This came from Geoff glandville over 4 years ago."

Now the surprising thing with this responce is the timescale, over 4 years ago. How many of these things have been put out into the market that are good enough to fool the likes of this guy ( long time collector and trader), Frank and I. I'm wondering if this goes a lot deeper than just Jeff and if there is a global ring of scammer creating these. People each side of the pond.

Richard_H said:

That is a good point Laurence. Where are these coming from? We need an audit trail and only one person can supply that.

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The ESB - b Fett baggie that turned up in the Big Pick was one of the finds of the batch along with the other other ESB - b baggies in the case to the point that they where not for sale and Chris kept them for his own collection due to there rarity. As demonstrated before in the previous evidence thread with regards to the ESB-b Fett, Jeff had one in his own collection and that at the time I believe to be a true and honest statement. This latest supply chain coming out over the last 12 month's is all sorts of wrong. Hence the accusations of being made in the initial post. These 1000 baggies in his collection did not include these so there is a supply chain coming from somewhere.

spoons said:

Three days ago it's fair enough to generalise that the lack of evidence meant that some people did find the initial post distasteful, and that friends of Jeff thought the best of him

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Not really made much of a comment regarding this - but I agree 100% with Spoons - initial post was sensationalist - and if as suggested designed to bring out more evidence, then very risky. I think the Podcast boys felt the same way that a lot of us did and went to help the person that they perceived wasn't being treated fairly - they are all really good guys and if they are getting any abuse then it should stop

I think that the balance of evidence now available proves that at best Jeff was selling baggies after being told that they were not right - either by Frank and the other guys in the OP or just by customer returns. There is also plenty of evidence to suggest that he was buying to sell - if you are doing this then you have to be 100% confident in what you are selling. If you sell 10 of one item and 3 people return them to you saying that you are fake then you can not assume that the other 7 think they aren't - you must stop selling them until you are 100% sure.

If Jeff is now getting 100s of return requests then this is of his own doing - poor business practices will often lead to poor business performance.