80s_collector
Padawan
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2015
- Messages
- 181
palitoyjunky said:
No the cards were hanging out to dry outside my hotel window waiting for someone to come along and iron them
Long Time suspected FAKE baggies scam / seller
- Thread starter Frunkstar
- Start date
No the cards were hanging out to dry outside my hotel window waiting for someone to come along and iron them
Frunkstar
Grand Master
80s_collector said:Basically, look at all the baggies for sale throughout the world, loads of them, look on the internet, at the shows, all over the world theres many of them on the market and there has been so many for sale over the last 15 years or a bit longer..........why....?
Simple, because people started collecting them and wanted mint figures in a sealed plastic bag and were willing to pay big bucks for them because people believe they are rare......theyre not rare they are unique as most were never put into production by the toy companies, they have been or still are being made and this has been happening for 15-20 years on and off due to the fact that the market is full of collectors willing to pay and find something nobody else has got.
Back in the day as you all say, in the 1980s, early 90s, there wasnt any hardly.....apart from the American playset figures, early bird figures and a few different mail away issues........none of them were about.
Years ago Ive sold many sealed cases of the normal baggies, emperors, anakins, dengars, a few fetts, 100s of loose ones and ones in their white card boxes, mixed cases, many bought from warehouses, from collections, dealers and on market stalls too, but sorry to say there were no last 17 figures (unless they came out of playsets) there were never the variants there is on the market today and that isnt cos now we have the internet and the world is small, its always been small and the internet just made it faster......Back in the day we had Toy Shop newspapers, loads of mags from here and abroard, we still dealt across the globe using bankers drafts and telephones......
The Toy shop newspaper was £100 a year for a subscription and was like a printed version of Ebay.
Go back to the 80s/90s and consider one main point, when any baggie was £1, £2 or maybe a fiver.......tons came to the surface due to the fact that nobody could give them away basically, but only the normal 15-30 different ones surfaced that we still see today, nobody wanted them, nobody cared about that little bag with writing on it, the items were basically worthless............but years later there is a market and where there are takers, there will be makers and thats the world we live in.
So many of the baggies on the market today could have been made yesterday, 40 years ago or 15 years ago, who knows.....I personally never had a customer base for baggies years ago, but I know a few people who thankfully arent in the game now who used to buy any baggies off me years ago and in front of my own eyes they would swap the figures around.
So good luck to the buyers and the seller and hopefully everyone will end up smiling again......its toys afterall...
P.S Always stick to buying Vintage Star Wars carded figures from very reputable long term dealers and you wont go far wrong...
Seriously? I have many thoughts about this subject but it is not what the thread is about really, but to say that most baggies that are out there are fakes is IMP simple laughable, over the years & through documented & traceable finds the info in the baggie guide has been put together including cross referencing & detailed investigations, even going so far as to cross check coo & family types are correct & consistent from one baggie to the next of the same type.
Agree that there are not many baggies compared to MOC & vehicles & many other items from the toy line, but to simple say that means they do not exist is sheer lunacy, I have been collecting baggies now for many years & would like to think I know what I am looking at, as an example as to how difficult baggies are to come by in comparison to loose figure & MOC's I went to NEC toyfair in 2006 & there was one baggie at the show, compared to thousands of loose & hundreds of MOC's. baggies have always been a very niche area of vintage collecting so did not go mainstream till recently, but if you knew where to dig & kept your eyes peeled they are/were out there & not just the few common ones.
I could go on about this subject with more detail & info for page after page, but it is not relevant IMO
EDIT: (to add) just to add a little insight - every single figure bar some of the last 17 can be found in kenner baggies of several types in the sears/J.C Penny etc mail away multi packs, the only exclusion was 4-Lom which can be found in 2 different baggies in the mail away card front off mailers & they were put out in large numbers & are still out there in large numbers
Ross_Barr said:edd_jedi said:
Because he's a technophone. With an active eBay selling account that is also well versed in digital camera image capture and upload. And is probably reading this right now.
But he's afraid of technology.....
Who has feedback on ebay for £9,500 of baggies over the past 12 months. Thousands of feedbacks and an active account for years. He also drives an M4. All signs of someone who doesn't get technology.
Frunkstar
Grand Master
Back to the matter at hand, check out the below email dated 2013 which clearly states
1. conformation he is going to accept the han fat head back & open it for his loose, this is the one he then sold on to Kev (see more info to confirm further down)
2. that he keeps all his transaction records in printed format
3. has never bought a lot from the UK, always from the states
4. mentions the rebel commandos (fake / aftermarket ESB-h ones)
this is the han that Kevlad posted about earlier which I had previously bought from Jeff & returned as all wrong / fake -
I can add full size image of the han to cross check if needed
1. conformation he is going to accept the han fat head back & open it for his loose, this is the one he then sold on to Kev (see more info to confirm further down)
2. that he keeps all his transaction records in printed format
3. has never bought a lot from the UK, always from the states
4. mentions the rebel commandos (fake / aftermarket ESB-h ones)
this is the han that Kevlad posted about earlier which I had previously bought from Jeff & returned as all wrong / fake -
I can add full size image of the han to cross check if needed
lejackal
Grand Master
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2015
- Messages
- 8,542
The saddest thing about all this, besides people getting ripped off, is that when you read the emails to and from Frank they start to come across as him almost asking for tips on how to make them better :twisted:
Frunkstar
Grand Master
lejackal said:
Yes glad you brought that up, I did not really want to infer it, but the more & more I think about all the questions I used to answer for him as I do for anyone that asked for help, the more it would seem they were questions that "could" be used to help figure out where previously fakes baggies have been going wrong, though obviously at the time (3 years ago) I never considered that, just thought he wanted to learn more about the hobby & what he was selling, though when I look back over the emails & even from memory I always wondered why he would ask such simple easy & obvious question, with answers any person who has collected baggie for over a month should be aware of, at that time I had no idea he had some 10 years more that I under his belt in terms of time collecting them which now makes is seem even all the more peculiar :?
Frunkstar
Grand Master
FYI the Ree Yee's baggies shown in the same email as the han are those shown on page 8 on my baggie guide as confirmed fake & if I am truly honest I now even have my doubts about the Hoth commander which would make it every single figure he offered me in that emails message is a fake
Ediit: - bar the kenner Lando, forgot about that one
Ediit: - bar the kenner Lando, forgot about that one
Bunglebubs
Jedi Knight
lejackal said:
I was also thinking the same thing
I know you are very busy Frank but ive sent you a pm
Frunkstar
Grand Master
Hello SWFUK'er's
As you can see the work for the most part to confirm fakes being sold is done, though I have a lot more evidence I am slowly going through.
Can I please request that if any of you have dealt with Jeff over the years to cross check all your baggies & contact me or post on here confirming what you have (only the fakes) & provide some evidence in way of screen shots on payments etc, as now the hard task starts in earnest - trying to figure out what the real numbers tof fakes are that are in circulation & the even more difficult part - removing them from circulation so future collectors are not also scammed.
If we all work together we can remove this scourge from the hobby & return to baggies being a fun area to focus on.
Many thanks in advance
Frank
As you can see the work for the most part to confirm fakes being sold is done, though I have a lot more evidence I am slowly going through.
Can I please request that if any of you have dealt with Jeff over the years to cross check all your baggies & contact me or post on here confirming what you have (only the fakes) & provide some evidence in way of screen shots on payments etc, as now the hard task starts in earnest - trying to figure out what the real numbers tof fakes are that are in circulation & the even more difficult part - removing them from circulation so future collectors are not also scammed.
If we all work together we can remove this scourge from the hobby & return to baggies being a fun area to focus on.
Many thanks in advance
Frank
Vin3po
Jedi Knight
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2009
- Messages
- 327
Well I think the evidence speaks for itself now really.
I have no doubt in my mind Jeff knew he was selling on fake baggies ! especially after been told by Frank they are fake / suspicious will open them and use as loose mint figures then in turn selling on to Kev ? come on this is just bang out of order if you ask me.
Why with Andrew Neo's 3 purchases from Jeff would he put himself out of pocket on shipping charges and send that questionable / fake Tusken direct to Singapore instead of sending to Frank along with the other 2 ? Cause no doubt in his mind he knew Frank would spot it a mile away.
As Max posted earlier Jeff has feedback for £9500 worth of baggies in the last 12 months alone , so for him to say he is not in it for Financial gain is another very questionable response especially when you are selling Lando and leia figures you cant pick up for under £30 but when they are stuck in a fake SW A baggie you are over £500+ each.
I could go on and on with the examples shown but what is the point ? as I started this reply the evidence speaks for itself now.
I would like to say a huge thank you to Frank and the other guys for bringing this to the community. Its a shame all the bickering it caused between friends but I am glad it seems everyone is pulling together now and focusing on the issues at hand.
Cheers
Vince
I have no doubt in my mind Jeff knew he was selling on fake baggies ! especially after been told by Frank they are fake / suspicious will open them and use as loose mint figures then in turn selling on to Kev ? come on this is just bang out of order if you ask me.
Why with Andrew Neo's 3 purchases from Jeff would he put himself out of pocket on shipping charges and send that questionable / fake Tusken direct to Singapore instead of sending to Frank along with the other 2 ? Cause no doubt in his mind he knew Frank would spot it a mile away.
As Max posted earlier Jeff has feedback for £9500 worth of baggies in the last 12 months alone , so for him to say he is not in it for Financial gain is another very questionable response especially when you are selling Lando and leia figures you cant pick up for under £30 but when they are stuck in a fake SW A baggie you are over £500+ each.
I could go on and on with the examples shown but what is the point ? as I started this reply the evidence speaks for itself now.
I would like to say a huge thank you to Frank and the other guys for bringing this to the community. Its a shame all the bickering it caused between friends but I am glad it seems everyone is pulling together now and focusing on the issues at hand.
Cheers
Vince
obiwannacollect
Jedi Knight
- Joined
- Dec 30, 2011
- Messages
- 418
jedisearcher
Sith Lord
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2012
- Messages
- 1,450
Frunkstar said:
Depends how you define a lot I suppose but looking back through his feedback he has bought a number of baggies in the UK. As he hides his feedback I managed to find feedback TT left for him on his Marsking account for at least half a dozen baggies and I wasn't really looking that hard so I'm sure there will be more. These stuck out like a sore thumb but he's also bought from plenty of other UK eBay users (although there are more American transactions number-wise).
80s_collector
Padawan
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2015
- Messages
- 181
maxf said:Ross_Barr said:edd_jedi said:
Because he's a technophone. With an active eBay selling account that is also well versed in digital camera image capture and upload. And is probably reading this right now.
But he's afraid of technology.....
Who has feedback on ebay for £9,500 of baggies over the past 12 months. Thousands of feedbacks and an active account for years. He also drives an M4. All signs of someone who doesn't get technology.
At least the guy has a good taste in motors, not bad going for selling a few plastic bags....
80s_collector
Padawan
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2015
- Messages
- 181
Frunkstar said:80s_collector said:Basically, look at all the baggies for sale throughout the world, loads of them, look on the internet, at the shows, all over the world theres many of them on the market and there has been so many for sale over the last 15 years or a bit longer..........why....?
Simple, because people started collecting them and wanted mint figures in a sealed plastic bag and were willing to pay big bucks for them because people believe they are rare......theyre not rare they are unique as most were never put into production by the toy companies, they have been or still are being made and this has been happening for 15-20 years on and off due to the fact that the market is full of collectors willing to pay and find something nobody else has got.
Back in the day as you all say, in the 1980s, early 90s, there wasnt any hardly.....apart from the American playset figures, early bird figures and a few different mail away issues........none of them were about.
Years ago Ive sold many sealed cases of the normal baggies, emperors, anakins, dengars, a few fetts, 100s of loose ones and ones in their white card boxes, mixed cases, many bought from warehouses, from collections, dealers and on market stalls too, but sorry to say there were no last 17 figures (unless they came out of playsets) there were never the variants there is on the market today and that isnt cos now we have the internet and the world is small, its always been small and the internet just made it faster......Back in the day we had Toy Shop newspapers, loads of mags from here and abroard, we still dealt across the globe using bankers drafts and telephones......
The Toy shop newspaper was £100 a year for a subscription and was like a printed version of Ebay.
Go back to the 80s/90s and consider one main point, when any baggie was £1, £2 or maybe a fiver.......tons came to the surface due to the fact that nobody could give them away basically, but only the normal 15-30 different ones surfaced that we still see today, nobody wanted them, nobody cared about that little bag with writing on it, the items were basically worthless............but years later there is a market and where there are takers, there will be makers and thats the world we live in.
So many of the baggies on the market today could have been made yesterday, 40 years ago or 15 years ago, who knows.....I personally never had a customer base for baggies years ago, but I know a few people who thankfully arent in the game now who used to buy any baggies off me years ago and in front of my own eyes they would swap the figures around.
So good luck to the buyers and the seller and hopefully everyone will end up smiling again......its toys afterall...
P.S Always stick to buying Vintage Star Wars carded figures from very reputable long term dealers and you wont go far wrong...
Seriously? I have many thoughts about this subject but it is not what the thread is about really, but to say that most baggies that are out there are fakes is IMP simple laughable, over the years & through documented & traceable finds the info in the baggie guide has been put together including cross referencing & detailed investigations, even going so far as to cross check coo & family types are correct & consistent from one baggie to the next of the same type.
Agree that there are not many baggies compared to MOC & vehicles & many other items from the toy line, but to simple say that means they do not exist is sheer lunacy, I have been collecting baggies now for many years & would like to think I know what I am looking at, as an example as to how difficult baggies are to come by in comparison to loose figure & MOC's I went to NEC toyfair in 2006 & there was one baggie at the show, compared to thousands of loose & hundreds of MOC's. baggies have always been a very niche area of vintage collecting so did not go mainstream till recently, but if you knew where to dig & kept your eyes peeled they are/were out there & not just the few common ones.
I could go on about this subject with more detail & info for page after page, but it is not relevant IMO
EDIT: (to add) just to add a little insight - every single figure bar some of the last 17 can be found in kenner baggies of several types in the sears/J.C Penny etc mail away multi packs, the only exclusion was 4-Lom which can be found in 2 different baggies in the mail away card front off mailers & they were put out in large numbers & are still out there in large numbers
Fair enough you might know your stuff and I can see your side, but Im only stating what I have seen with my own eyes, believe what you want to believe really, but I know what went on back in the day......
80s_collector
Padawan
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2015
- Messages
- 181
Baggie swapping has always gone on back in the day, if any of you dont want to believe it, well fair enough, but seriously a baggie could be swapped 20 years ago and you wouldnt know the difference today as age wears everything.
This post has been very interesting for me, but what shocks me is how people can come on here and openly slag off a seller and basically throw lots of comments which some are basically slander which in the end could ruin the guys reputation.
The seller could be totally innocent and unaware that theres anything wrong with some of the product he was selling.
This post has been very interesting for me, but what shocks me is how people can come on here and openly slag off a seller and basically throw lots of comments which some are basically slander which in the end could ruin the guys reputation.
The seller could be totally innocent and unaware that theres anything wrong with some of the product he was selling.
80s_collector said:
You obviously haven't read this thread properly or the evidence thread. This isn't just about a seller selling fake baggies, it is about knowingly doing so and deceiving people. There are concrete examples of both.
80s_collector
Padawan
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2015
- Messages
- 181
edd_jedi said:
Harsh words, but seriously everyone is innocent until proven guilty in a UK court, see my point.
mr_palitoy
Sith Lord
Cases of skullduggery involving vintage collectibles never go to court, see Toy Toni. It's just not an area that the police are interested in pursuing.
You are judged by the community based on evidence that is presented.
Jeff is as guiltly as sin. It's why he's not on here defending himself. Because he can't.
Jason
You are judged by the community based on evidence that is presented.
Jeff is as guiltly as sin. It's why he's not on here defending himself. Because he can't.
Jason
80s_collector said:
In which case, his reputation as a decent SW seller is in tatters anyway - given he is the 'baggie guy', has turned over a ton of these and should know better!
This isn't a random guy who sold a load of collections and in them were a few dodgy baggies, it's someone who has been supplying baggies worldwide for years and buying in order to sell.
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2014
- Messages
- 8,798
Don't some people still think O.J. Simpson is innocent?
