1985 figs

[theforceuk]

This is nothing really to do with anything on this thread but still interesting.

https://www.quora.com/How-much-were-the-original-actors-in-Star-Wars-paid-and-how-much-were-they-paid-for-the-latest-film

 

[Snaketibe]

Welcome to the forum.

As for the original question, this thread may be old, but it's still an interesting topic. As I understand it (and as Carrie Fisher made plain many times down the years in interviews), the principle Star Wars cast members signed away their likeness rights as part of their original Star Wars contracts. Bear in mind that at the time, film merchandising in general, and toys in particular were deemed to be a relatively worthless commodity, which is why when George Lucas went back to Twentieth Century Fox during production of Star Wars and asked for a larger director's fee, they appeased him with the merchandising rights for Star Wars! :-D

With their likeness rights effectively in Lucasfilm's hands, all the main cast members of the original Star Wars could then have figures made of them without being able to object, or (I believe) receive any royalties / residuals. Lucas on the other hand.... $$$$$$$$$$!!!!!!!!!!!!! Carrie Fisher used to point at her own face in interviews and say, 'You see this?... I don't own this. Every time I look in the mirror, I have to pay George five cents'.

Having learned their lesson from the fortune the merchandising made them from the first film, from Empire onwards Lucasfilm ensured all cast members, big or small, had to sign away their likeness rights as part of their Star Wars contracts. However, in order for Hasbro to revisit those characters from A New Hope that had not signed away their likeness rights at the time (presumably because no one in their right mind could ever have foreseen anyone ever wanting to try to make money from them ), such as the actor who played the cantina bartender Wuher, individual contracts / agreements were reached with the actors and actresses. And of course, most of them happily agreed as it was basically free money for them. However, the actresses that played the Tonnika Sisters refused to sign (a rumour for the reason being possibly because they felt Lucasfilm were not being particularly generous with their share of the financial pie, but this part may not be accurate), and for that reason we still have no modern line versions of them to this day. The legal situation may have become ever murkier as one of the actresses has since died, but Hasbro has previously made it plain that they know the fans want the Tonnika Sisters made into figures, but for now they are off limits.

I mention all this because it's entirely possible that Kenner / Lucasfilm regarded Grand Moff Tarkin, whilst a major character in the film and one played by a very distinguished and famous actor, as not being an especially appealing one to kids (if they did think this btw, even as a kid myself I disagreed and wanted that figure to be made... but then I'd have bought third Imperial grunt from the left, if they'd made him into a figure back then!). And if Kenner / Lucasfilm did consider Tarkin in this way, it's doubtful he was among those actors whose likeness rights were signed away back in 1976/7. And so once the figures started to appear and exploded in popularity, a decision would have to be made by Kenner / Lucasfilm regarding Tarkin; 1) not bother making a figure of a character whom they would probably still deem to be not as popular as many others they could make, and this would likely seem even more true in 1985 since the character had not appeared in a Star Wars film for eight years by that time, and instead make other, more kid-friendly (i.e. saleable) figures instead, or 2) Approach Peter Cushing and pay him money to use his likeness. With option 1 Kenner / Lucasfilm can make any number of figures without having to pay extra residuals, but with option 2 they have to pay extra cash to make a figure they probably deem would be a poor seller... The choice for Kenner probably seemed obvious... EXCEPT, as has been pointed out, they made the Imperial Dignitary, and whilst the likeness rights would not have been as issue for that character, as has also been stated, that particular figure was never going to fly off the toy shelves, so Kenner's figure choices remain rather difficult to understand.

I certainly agree that making Luke Stormtrooper (once they decided it was OK to revisit the earlier films to scour new figures from) was a no brainer; it's a figure of a principle character in a costume never previously made into plastic. However the other choices for figures made in 1985 can be regarded as eyebrow-raising in some cases, and not just by us fans who would have loved them to have made a Tarkin (which I genuinely don't think would have sold particularly well in 1985 with no film presence in years for kids to remember him from, and at a time, don't forget, when the Star Wars action figure line itself was waning in popularity). I refuse to believe that a Han Stormtrooper or Leia as Jabba's prisoner wouldn't have sold better than the Dignitary or Anakin, but unless someone in the know from Kenner at that time explains it further, the exact reasons behind their choices for the 1985 figure line may forever remain mysterious.

(Post edited once for grammar )

 

[Cronker]

Great post

 

[StarWarsFan]

Well guess its the same with other toy lines take Jurassic Park, why make a Tim and no Lex. Agree a Han ST would have been cool and rebel trooper.

 

[Cronker]

It's my understanding that they made the Imperial Dignitary figure because Bea Arthur said she wanted a figure of her character made.

 

[Ian_C]

On a similar note, Hasbro has said that it would not be able to make modern figures of the Tonika Sisters but refuses to give a reason aside from 'legal reasons'. But its often speculated that this is because one of the sisters refused.[/url]

However, the actresses that played the Tonnika Sisters refused to sign (a rumour for the reason being possibly because they felt Lucasfilm were not being particularly generous with their share of the financial pie, but this part may not be accurate), and for that reason we still have no modern line versions of them to this day. The legal situation may have become ever murkier as one of the actresses has since died, but Hasbro has previously made it plain that they know the fans want the Tonnika Sisters made into figures, but for now they are off limits.

I can shed a "little" bit of light on this. I interviewed Christine Hewett (Brea Tonnika) just over 10 years ago. I actually just re-posted it on Tantive XI a couple of weeks ago here.

In that interview, I specifically asked her about the likeness issue as it pertains to action figures, and her reply, as quoted, was "The action figure or lack of! Any questions about this must be directed to the other sister. Everyone knows the fans would like a figure or figures, as I would, but I personally can comment no further on this one. A fan in Germany made me a lovely figure - I think he used Han Solo's legs and Princess Leia's body."

The "other sister" is actress Angela Staines, who has, to my knowledge, never granted an interview or otherwise discussed her Star Wars involvement. In fact, the only thing I can even see she has done publicly since then was when she signed a poster for some fan, as you can see here. As you can see, Ms. Staines claims she was Brea Tonnika. Could this be part of the issue? Ms. Hewett clearly has no issues with the figure, and obviously knows something, as she has redirected questions to Ms. Staines, and not to LucasFilm or some other legal representative. So, was it money? A dispute over who would have an action figure in the blue costume vs the green one? Or just someone who didn't want her likeness used, period? We'll never know, and unfortunately, one of the few with inside information (Ms. Hewett) passed away back in 2007. The only thing we can tell is that Angela Staines is the one holding it up, and we have zero idea why.


As for the talk about Tarkin and a figure, while we of course all wish we had one, it does make sense why Kenner never made one. Up until Star Wars, no movie property had done well as a toy line. The best we had was Mego's Planet of the Apes, and that wasn't a "huge" success. They took a chance on SW, and as we all know, released the first 12. Of those, all but the DS Commander, Tusken, and Jawa were main characters (I include Stormtroopers as they were so damn prominent in the film, and we needed someone for the good guys to fight). I believe the DS Commander, Tusken, and Jawa were there both to add some diversity, but also all three served as army builders. If Peter Cushing refused to have his likeness, that settles his exclusion in the first 12, but even if he didn't, they'd risk him being a peg warmer. We already have the "old man" character with Obi-Wan, who was also much more integral to the story. Tarkin wasn't just the old man - he was a bad guy old man who died. I can sense the hesitation on Kenner's part.

When the second wave came, we had a pilot for the X-Wing Fighter toy, and three droids for the Land of the Jawas playset, and four aliens for the Creature Cantina playset. It's obvious that second line was created specifically to fill out the playsets. Then, it was on to ESB, then ROTJ. It should be clear why Tarkin wasn't included from 1980-1984 - he wasn't in either movie. When they did POTF, they could have used Tarkin then, but as others have said, by that time, he wasn't just an old man bad guy who died - he was an old man bad guy who died 8 years previous. Highly doubtful that figure would fly off the shelves. We even had Imperial Commander, who, as a generic Imperial officer, could be used as Tarkin (with a hat) during playtime. We know there were further figures in development beyond 1985. The line was simply canceled before they could be made, so all we know of is Yarna, Luke in Robes, and a different Emperor. Tarkin might well have been discussed, but we'll never know.

Ian

 

[ScruffyLookingNH]

Great old thread with some amazing new info. Welcome Cronker, glad to have you and good job avoiding the "other place"!

Ian, fascinating snippet there, thanks for reposting. Will check out the full interview later.

As already said, entirely understand why Tarkin wasn't made. I'm a staunch defender of the Last 17 and I think, on the whole, great choices were made! Sod the Ewoks (so not needed but understand why they did them, particularly given that the Ewoks were going to be one of the few remnants of the OT going forward). A few have made good points in the Tarkin v Dig debate and as to why no Han Stormtrooper. Both these now seem like no-brainers with the above arguments. The biggest mystery for my is why no Rebel Fleet Trooper. It would have been perfect in the first 12 and could have easily replaced the DSC in the line up. By ROTJ/POTF it was less relevant, like Tarkin, especially given the other Rebel army builders of the Hoth Rebel Soldier for ESB and the Rebel Commando in ROTJ.

It's a great subject that will be debated until the end of days as I doubt the minutes of the meeting where all this was discussed will ever surface.

 

[poncho]

long snoot garandin should of been made. awesome alien/bounty hunter/spy

 

[Snaketibe]

I can shed a "little" bit of light on this. I interviewed Christine Hewett (Brea Tonnika) just over 10 years ago. I actually just re-posted it on Tantive XI a couple of weeks ago here.

In that interview, I specifically asked her about the likeness issue as it pertains to action figures, and her reply, as quoted, was "The action figure or lack of! Any questions about this must be directed to the other sister. Everyone knows the fans would like a figure or figures, as I would, but I personally can comment no further on this one. A fan in Germany made me a lovely figure - I think he used Han Solo's legs and Princess Leia's body."

The "other sister" is actress Angela Staines, who has, to my knowledge, never granted an interview or otherwise discussed her Star Wars involvement. In fact, the only thing I can even see she has done publicly since then was when she signed a poster for some fan, as you can see here. As you can see, Ms. Staines claims she was Brea Tonnika. Could this be part of the issue? Ms. Hewett clearly has no issues with the figure, and obviously knows something, as she has redirected questions to Ms. Staines, and not to LucasFilm or some other legal representative. So, was it money? A dispute over who would have an action figure in the blue costume vs the green one? Or just someone who didn't want her likeness used, period? We'll never know, and unfortunately, one of the few with inside information (Ms. Hewett) passed away back in 2007. The only thing we can tell is that Angela Staines is the one holding it up, and we have zero idea why.

Hi Ian,

Thanks for this very interesting additional information. Although the Tonnikas were never going to be made in the vintage line, I have always wanted them both in the modern line. All we can do is hope that Ms Staines changes her mind or that the legal situation clears up in some other way (and no, before anyone speculates, I am not wishing the lady dead!). After all, although no 4" likeness of either sister was ever made, Galoob's Micro Machines Action Fleet line did manage to sneak a Brea Tonnika into their line:

Perhaps if Brea was indeed played by Ms Hewett, making her without Senni Tonnika was legally OK for Galoob? However I imagine Hasbro might not wish to make one sister in isolation? Or perhaps it's different for the 4" line? Who knows!.. :roll:

 

[SAVORY100]

I wonder if the micro line got away with it because it isn't a likeness... it simply cant be with a face the size of a pin. The 3.75 line however you can craft a facial similarity...

 

[Cronker]

We really missed out when they didn't make the highly sought after Aunt Beru with blue milk accessory.

 

[Simply Sci-fi]

Great old thread with some amazing new info. Welcome Cronker, glad to have you and good job avoiding the "other place"!

Ian, fascinating snippet there, thanks for reposting. Will check out the full interview later.

As already said, entirely understand why Tarkin wasn't made. I'm a staunch defender of the Last 17 and I think, on the whole, great choices were made! Sod the Ewoks (so not needed but understand why they did them, particularly given that the Ewoks were going to be one of the few remnants of the OT going forward). A few have made good points in the Tarkin v Dig debate and as to why no Han Stormtrooper. Both these now seem like no-brainers with the above arguments. The biggest mystery for my is why no Rebel Fleet Trooper. It would have been perfect in the first 12 and could have easily replaced the DSC in the line up. By ROTJ/POTF it was less relevant, like Tarkin, especially given the other Rebel army builders of the Hoth Rebel Soldier for ESB and the Rebel Commando in ROTJ.

It's a great subject that will be debated until the end of days as I doubt the minutes of the meeting where all this was discussed will ever surface.

I would have truly loved a Rebel Fleet Trooper/Rebel Trooper/Alderaan soldier as a kid. I had a special memory of them being so brave and cool-looking. Back in '78 I even painted some WW2 Russian soldiers to look like the Alderaan troops – my preferred description.

I suspect that the defenders of the Tantive IV were not turned into action figures because their place in the ongoing Star Wars saga appeared shaky at best. They were not seen as being standard Rebel soldiers back then and although a few of them were left at the Massassi base, they had basically been wiped out along with Alderaan and looked as if they were exiting the saga. There were also no plans to manufacture toys/playsets based on the Tantive IV or Rebel Base. The Death Squad Commander on the other hand, ended up featuring in the entire trilogy and being useful for the Death Star and Imperial Troop Transporter.

I'd say that this was a good call by Kenner, although I still yearn for a squad of Alderaan soldiers!

 

[ScruffyLookingNH]

Great old thread with some amazing new info. Welcome Cronker, glad to have you and good job avoiding the "other place"!

Ian, fascinating snippet there, thanks for reposting. Will check out the full interview later.

As already said, entirely understand why Tarkin wasn't made. I'm a staunch defender of the Last 17 and I think, on the whole, great choices were made! Sod the Ewoks (so not needed but understand why they did them, particularly given that the Ewoks were going to be one of the few remnants of the OT going forward). A few have made good points in the Tarkin v Dig debate and as to why no Han Stormtrooper. Both these now seem like no-brainers with the above arguments. The biggest mystery for my is why no Rebel Fleet Trooper. It would have been perfect in the first 12 and could have easily replaced the DSC in the line up. By ROTJ/POTF it was less relevant, like Tarkin, especially given the other Rebel army builders of the Hoth Rebel Soldier for ESB and the Rebel Commando in ROTJ.

It's a great subject that will be debated until the end of days as I doubt the minutes of the meeting where all this was discussed will ever surface.

I would have truly loved a Rebel Fleet Trooper/Rebel Trooper/Alderaan soldier as a kid. I had a special memory of them being so brave and cool-looking. Back in '78 I even painted some WW2 Russian soldiers to look like the Alderaan troops – my preferred description.

I suspect that the defenders of the Tantive IV were not turned into action figures because their place in the ongoing Star Wars saga appeared shaky at best. They were not seen as being standard Rebel soldiers back then and although a few of them were left at the Massassi base, they had basically been wiped out along with Alderaan and looked as if they were exiting the saga. There were also no plans to manufacture toys/playsets based on the Tantive IV or Rebel Base. The Death Squad Commander on the other hand, ended up featuring in the entire trilogy and being useful for the Death Star and Imperial Troop Transporter.

I'd say that this was a good call by Kenner, although I still yearn for a squad of Alderaan soldiers!

Good points there, although the argument against the RFT could equally be applied to the Tusken or the Jawa even though Lucas already had in his mind a return to Tatooine for Jedi! Back in the mid 90s a mate of mine used to customise beaters (when they were still 20p at car boots!). He did a brilliant RFT out of a DSC. I've still got it somewhere. Will have to rediscover it and post up a pic. I bet some guys were doing decent custom jobs back in the mid 80s to alleviate their disappointment!