Buyer beware: Leia 12-back on ebay.co.uk
- Thread starter r2isamale
- Start date
indianawars
Sith Lord
I believe this guy was a forum member. There were some disagreements over his pricing.
http://starwarsforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=24294
http://starwarsforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=24294
yogi
Jedi Knight
- Joined
- Feb 22, 2013
- Messages
- 331
I watched this over on RS. IMO you were very lucky to get a refund. You bought a 50, paid way over the odds, then returned it because the gun came out of the bubble in transit, which was always a high probability with a damaged bubble. You even said initially that you didn't mind the fact the gun was out of the bubble, but changed your tune when you realised you had overpaid. Buying an item in this condition you run the risk of something like this happening in transit. While I feel the sellers price was ridiculous and it would appear he has a history of selling vastly overpriced collectibles, I personally dont feel it should have been on him to offer a refund in this scenario.
Furthermore, I have no sides in this whole deal or the Leia being back up for sale, however if I were you I would not be doing the rounds dragging the sellers new sale into the gutter. The gun came out of the bubble, whats to say the seller hasn't since with a little bit of careful maneuvering moved the gun back into the bubble??? Do you know for fact it is still outside the bubble and the seller is misrepresenting the item?
My advice would be to move on and be happy you managed to get yourself out of a hole on this one. Learn from the experience and do a bit more research on pricing and grading before taking the plunge in future.
Furthermore, I have no sides in this whole deal or the Leia being back up for sale, however if I were you I would not be doing the rounds dragging the sellers new sale into the gutter. The gun came out of the bubble, whats to say the seller hasn't since with a little bit of careful maneuvering moved the gun back into the bubble??? Do you know for fact it is still outside the bubble and the seller is misrepresenting the item?
My advice would be to move on and be happy you managed to get yourself out of a hole on this one. Learn from the experience and do a bit more research on pricing and grading before taking the plunge in future.
I did not care about the gun being out of the bubble. Jeez :roll:
I have moved on - but why should others get burned when the seller grossly misrepresents the itim and use the "origianal" pictures? Would you not appreciate thi info IF you were interested in the item.
Yeah, I was an idiot to buy it in the first place, but that is not the main issue here.
Cheers,
Christian
I have moved on - but why should others get burned when the seller grossly misrepresents the itim and use the "origianal" pictures? Would you not appreciate thi info IF you were interested in the item.
Yeah, I was an idiot to buy it in the first place, but that is not the main issue here.
Cheers,
Christian
yogi
Jedi Knight
- Joined
- Feb 22, 2013
- Messages
- 331
Ok, if you did not care about the gun being out of the bubble then why ask for a refund? You got the item you paid for.
I highly doubt the seller is 'grossly misrepresenting' the item. From experience it would be quite easy to maneuver the gun back into the bubble.
I have managed to realign footers that were behind figures into the correct position on graded MOCs, with some effort and patience. The seller states 'There is damage to bubble as leia's head has pushed through the top of the bubble cracking the plastic , the gun is present and is inside the bubble however with the damage can now escape if it wants.' I would put good money on the fact that he was able to get it back in and is now accurately warning buyers on what could potentially happen based on your sale
There is nothing wrong with overpaying for an item and I was not for one second insinuating that you are an idiot. Everyone has to learn, there are no seasoned experts that haven't made mistakes along the way. The point I'm making is that I feel the seller did the honorable thing in refunding you in a situation where IMO he wasn't obliged to. You have no proof to say the gun is still outside the bubble, so why go out of your way to go around forums saying that it is? I will reiterate, I have no vested interest either way, however if I was in your position I would just be thankful I got my money back and leave the seller to it on what is still a very overpriced MOC that he will do well to sell.
I highly doubt the seller is 'grossly misrepresenting' the item. From experience it would be quite easy to maneuver the gun back into the bubble.
I have managed to realign footers that were behind figures into the correct position on graded MOCs, with some effort and patience. The seller states 'There is damage to bubble as leia's head has pushed through the top of the bubble cracking the plastic , the gun is present and is inside the bubble however with the damage can now escape if it wants.' I would put good money on the fact that he was able to get it back in and is now accurately warning buyers on what could potentially happen based on your sale
There is nothing wrong with overpaying for an item and I was not for one second insinuating that you are an idiot. Everyone has to learn, there are no seasoned experts that haven't made mistakes along the way. The point I'm making is that I feel the seller did the honorable thing in refunding you in a situation where IMO he wasn't obliged to. You have no proof to say the gun is still outside the bubble, so why go out of your way to go around forums saying that it is? I will reiterate, I have no vested interest either way, however if I was in your position I would just be thankful I got my money back and leave the seller to it on what is still a very overpriced MOC that he will do well to sell.
You misunderstand - but probably my fault since English is not my first language. I DID care about the fact that the gun was outside the bubble. Who wouldnt!?
The seller chose wizely by giving me a refund without any discussion - therefore I gave him a positive review.
Over and out,
Christian
The seller chose wizely by giving me a refund without any discussion - therefore I gave him a positive review.
Over and out,
Christian
Ian_C
Jedi Master
I'm a week late to this one, but I want to add that you are mistaken in saying he misrepresented anything. I looked over your RS thread, and it could have been sent in a bomb proof safe fully loaded with spray foam insulation and that figure would still burst out of the bubble. There is simply zero protection AFA cases give to bubbles. He described the crack, showed pics, and you took a chance on it in that condition. You're really lucky to have received the refund - I would have fought it.
I want to go easy on you, as you say you're pretty new at this, but you have to learn what is justifiable, and what is not fair when blaming sellers for items. In addition, I see you put up a ton of limelights on RS - and many of your loose figure buys are U-graded.
Giving you the benefit of the doubt, please let me explain that U grades are EXTREMELY harmful to this hobby. They are figures pulled off sealed cards for absolutely no justifiable reason. An item graded 85 is in exactly the same condition as a U85, but did not destroy a sealed example during the grading process. Please reconsider purchasing U graded items in the future.
Ian
I want to go easy on you, as you say you're pretty new at this, but you have to learn what is justifiable, and what is not fair when blaming sellers for items. In addition, I see you put up a ton of limelights on RS - and many of your loose figure buys are U-graded.
Giving you the benefit of the doubt, please let me explain that U grades are EXTREMELY harmful to this hobby. They are figures pulled off sealed cards for absolutely no justifiable reason. An item graded 85 is in exactly the same condition as a U85, but did not destroy a sealed example during the grading process. Please reconsider purchasing U graded items in the future.
Ian
Amen brother!
U grading is destroying the Sw hobby ! :twisted:
First of all. I was a SW freak 35 years ago and going back that alley again.
As for the Leia we just have to agree to disagree. But when the seller got her back he used the old photos for the ebay ad where the gun was inside the bubble. I am an attorney so I think that I know what misrepresentation is. But enough of that.
As for the U grades. I will not have any figures U graded but I will happily buy those that already are.
Cheerio,
Christian
As for the Leia we just have to agree to disagree. But when the seller got her back he used the old photos for the ebay ad where the gun was inside the bubble. I am an attorney so I think that I know what misrepresentation is. But enough of that.
As for the U grades. I will not have any figures U graded but I will happily buy those that already are.
Cheerio,
Christian
peekaygee73
Sith Lord
- Joined
- Sep 1, 2014
- Messages
- 1,027
Therefore paying over the odds and encouraging those who DO have figures u-graded to do more.r2isamale said:
Seriously, as Ian says there's no difference between an 85 and u85. There's a big collector market for affordable beater MOCs, now more so than ever, so when they are used its making it more difficult for your fellow collectors.
Ian_C
Jedi Master
r2isamale said:
No one said you haven't been a long time fan of the movies, or even the toys. However, you do admit you have only recently jumped on the collecting train. Therefore, it would be advisable for anyone in your position to heed the advice of people who have been in this hobby for decades.
There is a disconnect here between what exactly you are claiming is misrepresentation. Attorney or not, you seem to be confused in this case.
In the RS thread, you claim the seller misrepresented the item because when it arrived, the figure was coming through the bubble and the weapon was loose in the AFA case. The listing mentioned the bubble crack, and there were pictures of it. The amount of protection inside the shipping box was 100% irrelevant, because NONE of it was able to secure that bubble at all. Take that as your first lesson on why buying AFA carded figures is inherently risky. The figure moves freely within the confines of the bubble, so one movement the wrong way during shipment - and you have a figure coming out the bubble and a weapon having a play day outside the bubble. This was the reason for your initial post, was it not? And the reason you demanded a refund? WHERE did the seller misrepresent the condition of the item? Honestly, only a halfwit would think buying something with a hole in the top, and then upon receipt finding the weapon no longer in the bubble would be the fault of the seller.
Now, you seem to be sidestepping that part of the story to concentrate on what the seller has done since receiving it back. If they managed to get that blaster back in the bubble, then the condition is no different than it was when they sold it to you. The size of the hole would only require the patience needed to wait until you get it back inside. No need for new pictures. Again, no misrepresentation.
Your trigger finger for blaming the seller for something out of their control quite frankly indicates the lack of patience and sense of entitlement that we see from several people new to the hobby. Especially those that go after big money items right away and get stuck on graded items.
You may be a great guy, but your handling of this incident honestly shows your experience level in the hobby.
As for the U grading, while it is a relief that you won't actively U grade an item yourself, you really should stay away from buying them already U graded as well. As I said before, there is not one difference between a U graded item and a regular graded one with the same grade, except someone destroyed a packaged item to get the former (and I suppose the inconsistencies in AFA grading, which you will see for yourself sooner than later). Buying those encourages the practice, and shows the U graders there is a market for it, so inadvertently, you are still lending a hand to the problem.
If you frequent the Facebook groups and let it be known you support U graded items, you will be removed and banned from most of them. Same with many online forums. At a minimum, U grade collectors are often met with derision in the community, which will frustrate you when you find only a limited number of people willing to sell to you.
Education is the most important thing to acquire in this hobby. More so than the items themselves. You'll be better off for it, and will last longer if you take it slow and learn things for yourself, as the hotshots who drop money for instant collections rarely have any staying power.
Ian
Well, Ian. I learned my lesson on the Leia and wont buy more MOC's than I have now. They take up top much space anyway.
The gun might have been outside the bubble prior to the seller sending it to me. There is no way of knowing. What I do know is that the seller uses the old pictures in the new ad. The crack is now much bigger and the footer is now curving heavily up almost pushing Leia out pf the top of the bubble. If that is not misrepresentation I dont know what is. And that makes the seller dishonest. Who are to say that he was not misrepresenting it when I bought it?
I appreciate the lecture on U grading and will if possible refrain from buying more. On the that note I hope that you can appreciate that my 90 VC Jawa is unUgraded
Have a nice weekend,
Christian
The gun might have been outside the bubble prior to the seller sending it to me. There is no way of knowing. What I do know is that the seller uses the old pictures in the new ad. The crack is now much bigger and the footer is now curving heavily up almost pushing Leia out pf the top of the bubble. If that is not misrepresentation I dont know what is. And that makes the seller dishonest. Who are to say that he was not misrepresenting it when I bought it?
I appreciate the lecture on U grading and will if possible refrain from buying more. On the that note I hope that you can appreciate that my 90 VC Jawa is unUgraded
Have a nice weekend,
Christian
Ian_C
Jedi Master
Fair enough on the U grades Christian.
Don't let one MOC issue deter you from collecting. The benefit to collecting UNgraded MOC is that bubbles can be protected during shipment. Bubbles with pre-existing damage, and dark yellow ones, are both so fragile you're spinning a roulette wheel on if they'll make a trip safely.
If you really love the look of the casing, an alternative is to buy acrylic cases from Iain on this very forum. They look the same as AFA cases, but you can remove the figures. Best of both worlds for you, as you can protect a figure during shipping, and then have it encased. The only thing you're missing is the grade itself - and really, why does a grade matter? Do you really need to have the opinion of someone else to tell you that you have a nice figure? For authenticity, just post pics. Most of us can tell fake from real easily, to at least the same degree as AFA (who have made mistakes in the past).
We're at a stalemate on the Leia, so not much use in pursuing that one. You're taking it from the pessimistic side of a seller purposely misrepresenting an item, where most of us acknowledge that the extra damage and loose weapon were likely due to the existing damage being made worse by shipping an item that could not be protected. I'm curious how you think the seller somehow made the footer worse while it was sealed inside an AFA case, but whatever. Don't want to argue it any more.
Cheers,
Ian
Don't let one MOC issue deter you from collecting. The benefit to collecting UNgraded MOC is that bubbles can be protected during shipment. Bubbles with pre-existing damage, and dark yellow ones, are both so fragile you're spinning a roulette wheel on if they'll make a trip safely.
If you really love the look of the casing, an alternative is to buy acrylic cases from Iain on this very forum. They look the same as AFA cases, but you can remove the figures. Best of both worlds for you, as you can protect a figure during shipping, and then have it encased. The only thing you're missing is the grade itself - and really, why does a grade matter? Do you really need to have the opinion of someone else to tell you that you have a nice figure? For authenticity, just post pics. Most of us can tell fake from real easily, to at least the same degree as AFA (who have made mistakes in the past).
We're at a stalemate on the Leia, so not much use in pursuing that one. You're taking it from the pessimistic side of a seller purposely misrepresenting an item, where most of us acknowledge that the extra damage and loose weapon were likely due to the existing damage being made worse by shipping an item that could not be protected. I'm curious how you think the seller somehow made the footer worse while it was sealed inside an AFA case, but whatever. Don't want to argue it any more.
Cheers,
Ian
Thanks Ian,
Great idea on the acrylic boxes. I have some newly bought loose Droids figures I want to display snd protect, but not really send them away again to UKG. I will contact our forum member.
As for the footer it was flat in the picture, but curved when I got it. Like it had soaked moist or something.
Have a nice Sunday,
Christian
Great idea on the acrylic boxes. I have some newly bought loose Droids figures I want to display snd protect, but not really send them away again to UKG. I will contact our forum member.
As for the footer it was flat in the picture, but curved when I got it. Like it had soaked moist or something.
Have a nice Sunday,
Christian
