Are we seeing the OT through nostalgic eyes?

[stormcab]

Met up with my brother and sister today for a meal out. I'm 38, she's 32, he's 27. I enjoyed Rogue One more than TFA, but still wasn't overall impressed with either. I told them to rewatch A New Hope as I knew they wouldn't have seen it in years, so would miss all the nods, easter eggs, and characters put in with CGI.

My sister said she was in tears during the scene Chirrut ïmwe walks out to hit the transmission switch. She was also in tears during the final saber battle in TFA. She's a real hardcore film goer, and she's working on becoming a director. While debating all the plot issues with them, and explaining others, when we got back to my place it was decided that we should watch A New Hope. I understandably put on the despecialized version. Immediately she was not impressed with the sound and film quality. We spent a lot of time pausing and chatting throughout, then at the end I played bits from the new revamped version - particularly bits like the enhanced sand-crawler sequence, a room full of troopers after Han chases a group of them, and final space battle. She was immediately impressed, and said "now, I could watch this". I then quickly put on the "It's a trap" scene from ROTJ. She thought the quality was hilariously bad compared to the space battle in Rogue One. The space battle in ROTJ is only my favourite film scene ever, so that didn't hurt much . I kept trying in vain to point out "but look at that, that's exactly what it would look like sitting in a cinema in 1977, this is the real deal". She just kept looking at me like "yeah, so?"

Of course the new OT versions' scenes look utterly amazing, but am I, or actually, we, seeing these new ones (TFA RO) through eyes that don't see that nostalgic film grain, with terrible blue-screening, and jittery stop-go animatronic action etc? Is this stopping us (well a good chunk of us) actually enjoying what are in fact great films? Film critics are pretty unanimous in their praise of these new films.

 

[Grant_C]

I don't think we are seeing the films through nostalgic eyes. I feel that when people get older, they chose to unknowingly be cynical. This is meant as a generalisation and not anyone in particular or the original poster. But Just read any of the write ups of the new films on here. People define the things they like by highlighting what they didn't like. Focus is on window dressing. Never does the conversation go on directing, editing, costume, set design etc go into any depth, but paragraphs on silly slug creatures that are in the film for 20 seconds.

I think it greatly depends on your outlook. I read some of the reviews on here and think, people wouldn't like the OT if they saw it now, especially ROTJ. Are Biker scouts in the film to sell more toys, or is it fun and exciting to add to this infinite universe.

I don't think Disney can win no matter what extraordinary lengths they go to. Rogue One for me answered the criticisms of the Prequels and delivered a film for the fan base. I thought it was OT outstanding. I cant wait to get it on Blu-Ray and analyse it properly. I feel on the surface it was a great fun flick, but wonder how much there is to unpack?

Is there political commentary about mining for power resources in an occupied holy land a commentary on western imperialism in the Arabian peninsula? Much like the ewok battle in ROTJ was inspired by the American war in Vietnam.

I want to know more about the message of trust (trust in the force). The rebels all have to learn to trust in themselves together and the force. The imperials on the other hand have no interest in trust as they only want power. Krenic and Tarkin don't trust each other. Krenic even tries to undermine him by visiting darth vader.

On the flip side Kasian learns to trust Jyn, which is an alternate to shooting in the back. Baze and Cherrits releationship is built on trust, Baze is constantly protecting his blind partner. Cherrit trusts in the force and immediately has faith in jyn from the start ("I believe her"). Jyn's mother sets up the film telling Jyn to "Trust the force".

These are just personal absorptions from the narrative and text. Its irrelevant if its right or not, as myth is about interpretation, much like religion.

Judging by how much has been unpacked by academics in relation to myth, religion, history, politics, influences and filmmaking from the other films, I cant wait to see if this carries the same weight.

I love Rogue One, utterly brilliant film. I hope the next one can spark some interest if this one missed the mark.

 

[Grant_C]

Oh yeah- I also liked the bits when the guns went pew! pew! pew!

 

[stormcab]

Well put. But seriously, they gotta stop that CGI slug crap lol

 

[SAVORY100]

Yes, of course we have a thick layer of rose tint on our nostalgia goggles watching the OT. Its nonsense to suggest otherwise, they truly are our childhood personified and always will be children's films, something that is overlooked by haters of the prequels. The acting and dialogue throughout is not really a great step away from the prequels, but in our now adult minds we can forgive most things because we grew up with them and loved them for so long. In many ways the acting in the prequels is more suited for children with the emotional cues littered throughout by over the top performances; more similarly created in TFA than in R1.

When you watch the de-specialised versions (or just the original cuts on VHS of course), all the wobbly bits, some very poor modelling of creatures (by modern standards) and see through snow speeder window frames jar, but you forgive them because of nostalgia. When you watch a specialised version, one may criticise it being updated, but you forgive it again through a deep love for the romance you have felt for a lifetime of being in love with the trilogy.

We do not though forgive and have such embedded nostalgia for the Prequels because we watched them with (generally young) adult eyes, as thinkers and as critics. We picked them apart and used the nostalgia we hold for the OT as a benchmark, blinded by the sentimentality. We now though enter into a new series 15+ years older and with a keenness to have something good, most of us now have have a more 40+ years old view on life to be more forgiving and less critical, so these new films are possibly accepted more easily.

I also don't think it can be underestimated how quickly the prequels (compared to almost any other film series I can think of) has dated visually. Despite being set a long time ago, in a galaxy far far away, they were created to have an aesthetic of futurism that was very in keeping with the era in which they were made, now though they feel almost as daft as the Bill and Ted's Bogus Journey future and therefore incongruous with the OT aesthetic, which we (again) viewed with nostalgic eyes.

Not one of the 8 films to date is perfect, they all have massive issues, but its rare to hear too much commentary or complaint about the OT as nostalgia dominates.

There are of course too many complex ideas and ideologies attached and embedded in the prequels compared to the other 5 films, and I'm not trying to defend any one set of films over another, just trying to play devils advocate for a moment and look at them all in a flat emotionless way. Its very hard though to not base all my thoughts and argument on the OT as a benchmark, because they came first and are the best!

Grant makes an excellent point (amidst many others I must add):

Are Biker scouts in the film to sell more toys, or is it fun and exciting to add to this infinite universe.

I for one loved my Biker scout toy and to this day its the only childhood figure I have, it was though a toy (money) makers dream, a different stormtrooper that goes fast and has its own toy car that also goes fast and explodes... that's small and cheap to produce.. "we're gonna sell millions"... you bet they did, neither is a tough find either loose or MIB / MOC is it? But as Grant suggests, we don't hear grumblings about them, maybe Ewoks and their girl appeal, but even that is a quiet grumble...Of course in all cases, Shore Troopers, Biker Scouts, Cloud Car Pilots, different coloured Clone Troopers are all there to make money, they are though all there for children to feast on and enhance playtime, play time built around stories for children, made by adults and loved by adults too.

 

[stormcab]

Another good read

 

[Woolyniner]

Are Biker scouts in the film to sell more toys, or is it fun and exciting to add to this infinite universe.

I for one loved my Biker scout toy and to this day its the only childhood figure I have, it was though a toy (money) makers dream, a different stormtrooper that goes fast and has its own toy car that also goes fast and explodes... that's small and cheap to produce.. "we're gonna sell millions"... you bet they did, neither is a tough find either loose or MIB / MOC is it? But as Grant suggests, we don't hear grumblings about them, maybe Ewoks and their girl appeal, but even that is a quiet grumble...Of course in all cases, Shore Troopers, Biker Scouts, Cloud Car Pilots, different coloured Clone Troopers are all there to make money, they are though all there for children to feast on and enhance playtime, play time built around stories for children, made by adults and loved by adults too.

Although I cannot deny there maybe some truth in considering commercialisation of the film during the planning by Lucas/Disney I also think that it can be too easy to jump on every new vehicle and trooper and claim it is purely put in to generate new toys. If I wanted to sell a new film (which I suspect was Lucas's real primary aim) then I might well think I better put in a new type of Tie Fighter so the new film is still attractive to the old one so people still come to see it.

I remember with the TPM a friend of mine criticised the pod race as a pure toy/computer game cash in. I think Lucas was more focused on what would be exciting and fresh for the new film. But he also knows anything he puts in that is exciting for the film, can sell other products, but I don't think that is the primary goal when writing the script. Maybe I'm naive.

What would peoples reaction have been if all the star wars films had only one type of storm trooper, one type of tie fighter? Would Lucas have not been criticised for being unimaginative and stale?

 

[Ian_C]

Yes, of course we have a thick layer of rose tint on our nostalgia goggles watching the OT. Its nonsense to suggest otherwise, they truly are our childhood personified and always will be children's films, something that is overlooked by haters of the prequels. The acting and dialogue throughout is not really a great step away from the prequels, but in our now adult minds we can forgive most things because we grew up with them and loved them for so long. In many ways the acting in the prequels is more suited for children with the emotional cues littered throughout by over the top performances; more similarly created in TFA than in R1.

When you watch the de-specialised versions (or just the original cuts on VHS of course), all the wobbly bits, some very poor modelling of creatures (by modern standards) and see through snow speeder window frames jar, but you forgive them because of nostalgia. When you watch a specialised version, one may criticise it being updated, but you forgive it again through a deep love for the romance you have felt for a lifetime of being in love with the trilogy.

We do not though forgive and have such embedded nostalgia for the Prequels because we watched them with (generally young) adult eyes, as thinkers and as critics. We picked them apart and used the nostalgia we hold for the OT as a benchmark, blinded by the sentimentality. We now though enter into a new series 15+ years older and with a keenness to have something good, most of us now have have a more 40+ years old view on life to be more forgiving and less critical, so these new films are possibly accepted more easily.

I can dig up posts I made on other forums 15 years ago that dealt with the issue of people being unable to view the PT with the same mindset that they had when they first saw the OT. Between that, and having expectations no one could possibly live up to, it's amazing the PT made the box office totals it did.

Of course there are aspects of the OT that we overlook as adult fans. Stop motion tauntauns at the beginning of ESB, Luke having just as bad a "NOOOOOO!" as Vader, dated puppetry effects, etc. We overlook them partly for nostalgia, but also because those films had HEART. The trilogy as a whole is far better than the individual components that go into it. I loved the PT (and R1) because I feel both aspired to tell an imaginative story that again exceeded any negatives. It's why I can love some purely awful horror films - I 'connect' with them despite their flaws.

Ian

 

[edd_jedi]

Having watched both R1 and TFA, although I liked them I still think both are blown out of the water by the OT. I think people are mad saying either is better than Jedi, Ewoks or not :lol:

It's obviously hard to watch something subjectively with no emotion or nostalgic attachment, but I honestly think everything about the OT is better.

The scripts are better, sure there are jokes in them but very few of them are cheesy and despite their U rating are all serious films with minimal comedy. The two latest films are full of corny jokes which I appreciate are trying to appeal to kids or older viewers but they just annoy me. A bit like all the comedy shite George put in the special editions.

The effects still look as good now as they did 40 years ago, everything looks virtually real. There are only a couple of things I can pick holes in, eg the odd badly super imposed explosion. The model filming of the ships simply looks real, it never gets dated. As we all know the CGI in the prequels looks terrible a decade later, and although a big improvement, I think TFA and R1 will look dated in a decade.

And finally the acting is better in the OT. Even Harrison Ford is better in the old films than he was in the new one, it must be the directing. As a child I found the actors completely believable, and now as an adult I still do. I think some of the actors in the new films, especially Rey, are a bit too Disney/Harry Potter.

 

[StarWarsFan]

I enjoyed R1 much more then the TFA but it doesn't compare with the originals love all 3 the same jedi is ace ok I hate the ewoks but still an ace film.

 

[stormcab]

Having watched both R1 and TFA, although I liked them I still think both are blown out of the water by the OT. I think people are mad saying either is better than Jedi, Ewoks or not :lol:

It's obviously hard to watch something subjectively with no emotion or nostalgic attachment, but I honestly think everything about the OT is better.

The scripts are better, sure there are jokes in them but very few of them are cheesy and despite their U rating are all serious films with minimal comedy. The two latest films are full of corny jokes which I appreciate are trying to appeal to kids or older viewers but they just annoy me. A bit like all the comedy shite George put in the special editions.

The effects still look as good now as they did 40 years ago, everything looks virtually real. There are only a couple of things I can pick holes in, eg the odd badly super imposed explosion. The model filming of the ships simply looks real, it never gets dated. As we all know the CGI in the prequels looks terrible a decade later, and although a big improvement, I think TFA and R1 will look dated in a decade.

And finally the acting is better in the OT. Even Harrison Ford is better in the old films than he was in the new one, it must be the directing. As a child I found the actors completely believable, and now as an adult I still do. I think some of the actors in the new films, especially Rey, are a bit too Disney/Harry Potter.

Yeah too many female leads these days look like they are on the verge of tears, which just doesn't exactly smack of strength. Twilight, Hunger Games, TFA, R1. Doesn't come close to Leia, or someone like Ripley from Aliens (Although Ripley did have a couple of cries)

 

[stormcab]

I enjoyed R1 much more then the TFA but it doesn't compare with the originals love all 3 the same jedi is ace ok I hate the ewoks but still an ace film.

Funny I never found the ewoks an issue until many years later when people pointed out it was just a way of upping the number of toys. I thought they had some of the funniest little bits - nicking the speeder & AT-ST, wrapping the rock on a rock round his neck :lol:

 

[StarWarsFan]

lol yer they have their moments but still annoying.

 

[theforceuk]

I don't think I look at them critically through nostalgic eyes and that's why I prefer ROTS to ROTJ. I take each film for what they are and every single Star Wars film is groundbreaking in it's own right.

I'm crazy, I know.