Changing Collecting/Fan Demographic

[edd_jedi]

After visiting Celebration yesterday and reading this thread it seems to me that us OT fans and collectors are now in the minority. Most stalls at Celebration had people flocking for new toys, and I've seen several sellers say vintage sales have been slow. Most of the cosplayers I saw were wearing prequel or modern costumes, and most of the celebrities and autographers were also not OT (although obviously many actors have passed now so have to take that into account.) The only place vintage collectors looked to be the majority was in the Collecting Track area, which compared to the tens of thousands of attendees was tiny, maybe a couple of hundred people at most.

I think new films and new collectors are great for the longevity of Star Wars as a brand, but it seems that the OT is starting to fade in popularity, both the movies and toys. I was in an antique shop last week and there were stacks of pre-1950s military toys that obviously had been sitting there for years, I assume because the people who played with them as kids are probably dead now, and a younger generation hasn't taken over collecting these things.

So while vintage prices still appear high, is demand starting to fall? Will every Celebration see vintage toys and OT movie attractions fade further into the background? Is it time to start selling off the things I don't need before they become those abandoned antique shop toys?

 

[_Lee_]

Good post Edd

I'm also surprised at the value that some recent carded figures make. The likes of POTF2, Episode 1 etc still go for next to nothing but more recent figures go for insane prices like the one below.

Collecting is definately changing and vintage has certainly slowed down, but I blame that partially on Facebook.

I think vintage is due to crash and its been waiting to happen for months, if not years. The sequels obviously brought out more crap that is already losing money. All these people rushing to go buy Empire magazine with the Kylo action figure a few years back for over £100 is proof of that, as you can get them for next to nothing now.

The market is saturated and the only areas that make real money nowadays is trading cards, autographs and replica props. Just do a search for trading cards and you will see what I mean, a vintage Luke number went for a big amount recently some for even more than the one below.

Trust me, trading cards are the way to go and invest nowadays, as is Lego

 

[lejackal]

Collectible investments will be fine - rocket fett, proofs and high graded stuff. Beater MOCs reseals etc will fall off first, then loose, then moc. Most of that not for a long time, but I'd be worried about ploughing loads into a collection at current prices.

 

[lejackal]

Good post Edd

I'm also surprised at the value that some recent carded figures make. The likes of POTF2, Episode 1 etc still go for next to nothing but more recent figures go for insane prices like the one below.
View attachment 180672
Collecting is definately changing and vintage has certainly slowed down, but I blame that partially on Facebook.

I think vintage is due to crash and its been waiting to happen for months, if not years. The sequels obviously brought out more crap that is already losing money. All these people rushing to go buy Empire magazine with the Kylo action figure a few years back for over £100 is proof of that, as you can get them for next to nothing now.

The market is saturated and the only areas that make real money nowadays is trading cards, autographs and replica props. Just do a search for trading cards and you will see what I mean, a vintage Luke number went for a big amount recently some for even more than the one below.

Trust me, trading cards are the way to go and invest nowadays, as is Lego View attachment 180673

TVC stuff has gone bananas

 

[db94]

TVC stuff has gone bananas

Sell my TVC stuff now, hold on to the cash until the price of vintage R2-D2 MOCS drop

 

[Hod10]

Design is an important factor as to why vintage MOC's will still be in demand long after we are gone. In my opinion, this is due to timeless graphic design. The Vintage Collection and Retro Collection both copy the design of the original packaging. While Stars Wars is still churning out films and TV shows which share a timeline with the original trilogy, fans will always want to obtain an 'original'.

 

[Mini99]

Sell my TVC stuff now, hold on to the cash until the price of vintage R2-D2 MOCS drop

View attachment 180676

I've just got into collecting the VC line as no Vintage is coming up for sale that I'm looking for, I suppose that happens after the length of time we've been collecting.
There are a few VC above that I'm very interested in, so if they do come up for sale please drop me a message.

 

[Mini99]

Quality vintage will always be sort after and sell well.
But there is certainly a slow down in the madness that was buying Star Wars on FB over the last few years, not a lot is "claimed" in a few seconds anymore and fair amount of stuff goes un-sold which would have been unheard of a few years back.
We, the old time collectors are getting less in numbers than the new collectors that collect the VC and Black Series, hence the abundance of "new" toys and the increase in the prequels and sequels, a growing number of us are collecting all eras.
I certainly buy less Vintage these days, mainly due to less disposable income and very little coming up for sale that I would like to add to the collection, so I've moved into the VC line and am loving the abundance of interesting MOCs available.(I've always had a big interest on POTF2 as it' such an underrated line).
Yes the VC 1.0 cards can be expensive as can store exclusives of the 2.0 line, but again just like Vintage, patience is the key and bargains do come up on eBay now and again, brings back the fun to collecting.
I wanted to give the POTF2 line a mention too, yes 99% of cards are still sub £5.00 but if you start looking at foreign cards like South American, Korean and Italian, these can be so rarer that finding them is like finding rocking horse sh*t. Also the price of MISB ships have gone through the roof of late, if indeed you can find them for sale.
So just to wrap this ramble up, the collecting scene is alive and well, just changing and becoming younger as the prequel generation re discover Star Wars and have the disposable income to indulge in the nostalgia.
Long live Star Wars…

 

[_Lee_]

Agreed Mini.

I myself have recently thought about the POTF 2 line myself lately as its part those which got me back into collecting aswell as bendems. I love the cards right up until POTJ and I've never been able to get on with rhe AOTC and ROTS huge bubbles.

The good thing about star wars is that there is always something to collect.

 

[Wreck-It Ralph]

I don't see Vintage MOC's being a good long term investment as there are too many things to go wrong with them overtime like cracked bubbles, lifting bubbles and discoloured bubbles which reduce their value. If you are looking for an easier collectible investment with less things to go wrong then trading cards or comics are good choice. A Mickey Mantle card just sold for 12.6 million and an Amazing Fantasy 15 sold for 3.6 million in 2021. I realise these are at the top end of the collecting sphere but their sales will lift everything else. Investors are looking for investments that are as risk free as possible and trading cards and comics offer this whereas MOC's don't!

 

[Michael Sith]

I think yor right Edd, unfortunately it's about the passage of time, but the key for me is as always collect for yourself. It's not about the zeitgeist of 5he time it's about what floats your boat, great if their are like mined people and you are part of that, biut collect for you not for what others collect for. I'm a miserable old git and for me that's what it's all about, collect what you want for you, wether that has value ore not is irrelevant

 

[sith-smith]

I can't see vintage stuff maintaining its value in the long run. It's value largely lies in the connection our generation has with it and so we're prepared to pay to own. When we pass on, our nostalgic connection will not, so unless a later generation can find a powerful enough extrinsic value in it, its value can't possibly stay as high.

They are churning out so much stuff and a lot of it is really cool. That will also distract younger/future generations from the old stuff, which, though it means a lot to us, is not really going to look so great in comparison.

 

[monkey_roo]

I'd like to think that vintage stuff does hold its value - but rather than increase I think it will just flatten out and stay roughly where it is now - maybe dip a bit, but not a wholesale crash. The collecting market will shrink (as we all get older ) and only a small number of younger collectors will pick up the Kenner stuff as they don't connect to it like we do - But I think those that really go down the rabbit hole will buy vintage items, but that is not going to be a big number, but a 'true' collector might want to get every incarnation of whatever item/figure out there - imagine doing that for AT-AT's - having one of everyone ever made 1980 through to today - pretty cool. or having an R2 focus but not having Kenner figures in there - wouldn't be complete and a collector no matter what age does tend to have a completist mentality - I swear that is actually factored into Hasbro's business model...

Price wise I think the swing is already here. I have just completed a carded run of POTF2 and POTJ and while the figures remain mostly low cost (Although some POTJ is going up and the odd POTF2 is up as well) the vehicles are now on a par with Kenner - try finding a Boxed POTJ B-Wing at a good price - I can buy a Kenner one for less now.

Likewise a lot of TVC stuff is stupid money - doesn't help that a standard figure costs c£15 to start with and vehicles like the upcoming N1 are c£140 RRP - this means the items come with an inflated value that collectors just accept and maintain. Look at the Razorcrest - what does that go for now - silly money.

Over the last six month I can firmly say POTF, POTJ and EP1 stuff has gone up in price - not massive overall, but it is increasing and I think that is due to the fact that kids from the 00's are now collecting their childhood stuff - selected items from all the Saga, or ROTS or 30th Birthday lines have always carried high prices and all the damn exclusives Hasbro pumped out from that period likewise - those great multi-figure boxsets (Bounty Hunters, Imperial Briefing, Troopers etc.).

But yes, us old dinosaurs will slowly become extinct, the overall trade in Kenner stuff will slow - but good quality items will still hold value - Toys from the 90's and 00's will increase as their market grows. Stuff from today is already so stupidly expensive so I think they will all hover around RRP for a while yet. It remains to be seen if any of the Disney Sequel era stuff becomes widely collectable in the future - there is a lot of it and not a great deal of love for the films, but who knows. Oddly I think smaller lines like Rebels will go up - they were limited and unique (and very nice) and Clone Wars stuff likewise.

But collecting is alive and well and Star Wars is firmly part of that.

 

[toyboy73]

Great topic. From what I have heard and read, it seems that there are two very different schools of thought as to where Star Wars collecting will go in the future. Some seem to think vintage will die off as collectors move on, pass on, or otherwise leave the hobby, while others think that the new films and media will continue to generate interest in all things Star Wars, including vintage. This topic is one of frequent discussion with some old-timer collectors that I see at the Chicago Toy Show (aka Kane County Show) which I attend. I agree about the toys of past generations no longer being wanted now…at this show, there used to be many dealers selling cap guns, western toys, and pressed steel ; they are fewer and fewer every year. Most of the collectors of toys from the 1950's and before are unquestionably moving on, in one way or another. In recent years, many toy lines from the 1990's have been hot, as the kids of those generations grow up and have disposable income. I guess only time will tell if vintage Star Wars follows this same pattern, or holds its own.

My personal interests have certainly shifted a number of times over the years, and now as I'm moving in to another demographic (50+). I'm currently in the process of selling the last of my "Modern" collection. As I have gotten more mature, the desire to have more "stuff" has diminished, and I decided to focus on where the nostalgia truly is for myself, which is Kenner vintage. The modern lines do unquestionably have some cool items in them, but space, time, and financial resources dictated a change for me.

My personal opinion on the current state of the hobby: the divisiveness within fandom and issues with Hasbro (cost, availability, quality, saturation) have taken a toll on Modern collecting, while Vintage continues to do well. As a small time reseller, most vintage items that I come across are pretty easy to pass on, especially weapons, parts, and MOC figures. Vintage Collection is hot, while the 5POA and ST lines are mostly dead, and Black Series seems to be in a slump. OT characters still seem to do the best (older fans with more disposable income perhaps?) while other lines all have highlights based on what's popular in the media at the time. I agree with what others have said in that there has been somewhat of a resurgence in POTF2 era items; many were almost unsellable for years but now seem to be doing better, especially the vehicles. Another factor looming over all collector markets is the global economy, which, depending on what one reads, may be having some issues, with possibly more ahead.

 

[edd_jedi]

I wonder if POTF2 vehicles have become popular because most of them are made from the original line moulds but with better paint jobs?

 

[lejackal]

I wonder if POTF2 vehicles have become popular because most of them are made from the original line moulds but with better paint jobs?

I'd say so- better paint and better electronics.

 

[db94]

Absolutely loved buying them for our daughter. The original moulds made them cool for me and the better paint apps and lights and sounds were great for her (and me )

 

[Mini99]

I wonder if POTF2 vehicles have become popular because most of them are made from the original line moulds but with better paint jobs?

I also think that the vehicles didn't sell that well compared to how the figures sold back in the 90/00s.
So again the old adage of a smaller amount circulating in the secondary market.

 

[spoons]

I was looking through my CE photos Edd and thought exactly the same - mostly pics of droids from prequels, sequels and TV series. I'm not even sure I saw a Darth Vader cosplayer

We are definitely in a new era of SW, but that's no bad thing. Keeps it fresh for generations to come.

 

[sith-smith]

Think how much the star wars scene has changed since the first Celebration Europe in 2007. Back then there were just 6 films and it wasn't owned by Disney.

The bulk of cosplay still seemed to be OT and love for the PT was still pretty limited.

But since then, there's been at least 7 (Possibly 9? - I've lost track a bit) series, plus 6 more movies (including the animated clone wars) - all of which have introduced new characters and new actors and there's a lot more to come. Disney is very much forward thinking and looking for this to be a long term investment with the need to introduce new people to the franchise and to keep it fresh.


I found most of CE quite boring, but my SW focus is quite narrow. So I just took from the 4 days what I wanted and wasn't concerned about the rest. To be fair, that was the same in 2007, 13 and 16. Though the amount I'm interested in became less each show.

I just remind myself that Star Wars isn't mine, wasn't meant for just me - it's for everyone and anyone. Star Wars is much bigger than it was in 2007. That's no bad thing. There's a lot there - so you can take what you want and don't worry about the rest.

But in the meantime I'll just sit in the corner of the room shaking my fist, saying 'it's not as good as the old days'