Does anyone know anything about this Harbert VCJ?

[Justin]

Hi Guys,

I can only re-iterate my previous posts. I appreciate you guys here are much better informed with knowledge of collecting and Star Wars figures. But I can say with complete honesty this figure came from a shop in London as it is displayed to you on this thread, I have not changed stickers, tampered with or manipulated any part of the item or its packaging. It makes no odds to me if it finds its way back into a draw or the loft. Its just been sitting around in my line of sight since the media interest in vintage figures when TPM came out. £300 quoted back then raised my interest.

So its sat in draws and only recently having seen a facebook post about one going for outrageous money at auction. I finally decided to look for a forum to ask questions about it to find out more.

For those who may question my integrity, I am a BACP registered counsellor and a drug and alcohol worker and have a few credentials that if you knew me would help you understand I have no interest or ability to lie to or misinform people for material gain.

I am intrigued by the mismatching timelines, odd packaging and other peculiarities. All I can say is this figure is authentic, whether the marketing is a mistake or the packaging happened by error whether in the outlet or at the factory I have no idea. Im just considering possibilities.

I appreciate peoples opinions completely but I would like it known that I am completely honest with my information and description of the history of this figure.

I hope this helps, I hear what people are saying and I fully recognise the unscrupulous types that ruin this kind of hobby with rip offs and cons. So can understand caution.

Whatever happens and whatever transpires I am pleased that this oddity has come to the attention of those who enjoy this hobby.

J

 

[Stormtrooper37]

Hi Guys,

I can only re-iterate my previous posts. I appreciate you guys here are much better informed with knowledge of collecting and Star Wars figures. But I can say with complete honesty this figure came from a shop in London as it is displayed to you on this thread, I have not changed stickers, tampered with or manipulated any part of the item or its packaging. It makes no odds to me if it finds its way back into a draw or the loft. Its just been sitting around in my line of sight since the media interest in vintage figures when TPM came out. £300 quoted back then raised my interest.

So its sat in draws and only recently having seen a facebook post about one going for outrageous money at auction. I finally decided to look for a forum to ask questions about it to find out more.

For those who may question my integrity, I am a BACP registered counsellor and a drug and alcohol worker and have a few credentials that if you knew me would help you understand I have no interest or ability to lie to or misinform people for material gain.

I am intrigued by the mismatching timelines, odd packaging and other peculiarities. All I can say is this figure is authentic, whether the marketing is a mistake or the packaging happened by error whether in the outlet or at the factory I have no idea. Im just considering possibilities.

I appreciate peoples opinions completely but I would like it known that I am completely honest with my information and description of the history of this figure.

I hope this helps, I hear what people are saying and I fully recognise the unscrupulous types that ruin this kind of hobby with rip offs and cons. So can understand caution.

Whatever happens and whatever transpires I am pleased that this oddity has come to the attention of those who enjoy this hobby.

J

Thanks for the reply Justin. Appreciate that you appreciate concerns raised, it's the timeline that baffles me and others on here :?
I would love this piece for my Harbert run but.........the fact that one has never surfaced before and the mismatching of ESB sticker on early SW cardback etc leads too many questions.
A real odd-man-out this piece, but if as you say from what you know of it's history a truly fantastic piece. I for one am not put off by the bubble - also collecting Meccano's which have the most fragile bubbles you can't be too choosy.

Don't own a VCJ, but if I ever wanted to - this would be the MOC I would want.

Hope others can chime in on the VCJ figure - looks legit to me, but loose figures are not my specialist area.

Paul

 

[Palifan]

The Jawa cape looks to be 100% legit to me, I own a couple of UKG ones and have had 3 AFA ones and a loose one over the years and the length, collar size and folds and colour all look good. Maybe a picture of the back of his leg would be good if Justin gets a chance so that we can see what the COO (country of origin) stamp looks like but I'm more than happy with it.

The one other thing I've noticed on the close up picture of the bubble are two lines running underneath the seal. I'm thinking these have come from where the bubble was opened at the bottom but it almost looks like those lines carry on up to the top of the bubble seal. I'm pretty sure it's just the light but again if Justin has a chance to take a sharp picture of these areas it would help everyone see everything is as it should be.

I'm excited to see if any other information comes to light on this piece or if there are any other 12 back card backs out there with this sticker on them.

Ian

 

[Joe]

Hi Justin, I'm really not accusing you of trying to pull a fast one or anything haha! Hope you and others aren't taking it like that.

It's just that it would be the first example of a Kenner SW VCJ ending up in Italy (Or England after a brief visit to Italy) and then sold after the release of TESB, so hopefully people see where I am coming from if I am sounding a little sceptical.

I am not saying you (or anyone else) made this with the intention of tricking anyone but from experience (sadly) I know that that stickers are quite easy to work with if you know how. In fact there was a really shocking case of "sticker fraud" discussed on RS a few years ago: http://forum.rebelscum.com/t1057833/ (this is of course an example of someone transferring stickers to create unknown variations and fool others. I am not saying your card/sticker combination is to be treated as suspect but just wanted people to see that stickers can be easily removed and put on other cards)

I have no reason to doubt this is from your childhood collection but it wouldn't be the first time that a card from a childhood collection had been modified, I remember someone finding a card with an out of place sticker/offer on it a few months back (maybe Grant?) and that was also debunked as a kid just messing around back in the day.

If it's a legit piece it's certainly an interesting bit of history, I am also 100% sure it would be the first of it's kind to have ever surfaced too so I would love to hear other opinions from some of the more educated collectors around here (Christian loves a bit of Italian Vintage SW so I am more than sure he can give us his thoughts on this one).

Joe

PS: VCJ does look good, I'd bet on it being legit without a doubt.

 

[madbrownz]

I have read and reread this thread twice and while, I personally consider the VC Jawa to be legitimate, I have serious doubts/concerns about the card. While a number of legit VC Jawas have been found on SW-B Cardbacks, the Harbert sticker makes absolutely no sense. The timing is all wrong, due to the SW-B's quickly being released with SW-C's and before the Capo Jawa had been produced by Harbert later that year. Also, why would be ESB Harbert sticker be placed on an earlier released SW cardback? Again,this makes no sense. I could be wrong and hope this is legit, but I am having a hard time stomaching this one. Just my two cents from all of my years collecting Jawas.

 

[Palifan]

It's always going to be a tricky one when an item nobody has ever seen turns up, especially something like this. I do trust Justin's word with where this figure originated but I'm wondering how it's possible to figure out if it's the real deal.

Does anyone think there's anything to be gained by sending it of to UKG to take a look?

Just a thought, hopefully some more information will present itself soon.

One last thought is that it was some old stock that was in a warehouse once Empire was released and they thought they'd put an Empire sticker on it to try and make it more appealing to a buyer. I know there are a couple of ESB logo Australian VCJ's in existence so it seems possible to me that this could have been put out after Empires release. I'm not sure if Justin has mentioned when he was given it but it might help things to pin point a date to it.

Ian

 

[Justin]

This is frustrating, I suppose I am going to have to stomach having my integrity questioned. I will send photos of the leg and close ups of the bubble requested by Ian shortly.

I however recall having many figures with Empire stickers on them when they were earlier figures. I remember buying original Stormtroopers that had different card variations and Empire stickers on them, Im pretty sure this was just for marketing reasons. Who is to say shopkeepers didnt have stickers to attach themselves for marketing purposes.

I dont have the answers because there is a lot of subjectivity, one thing that is unquestionable when trying to find out the reason for the Harbert sticker is that the thinner bubble which is evident on the card, has never been removed and is still in a pretty poor state, why the hell would I try to sell this in this state if I wanted to pull the wool over anyones eyes? This packaging with the sticker on the back is what the figure came with. I dont recall what year I was given the figure but maybe looking at the serial number on the top left of the card will help people find out more.

Also if you look at the sticker you can clearly see its been on the back for yonks, how on earth I would A) find a sticker like this, B) Imagine it would add worth to the item, C) take it to a forum where people are likely to know much more than if I had just thrown it on Ebay….please!!! Why the hell would someone go to such lengths? This has been in my parents loft, then my draw for over 25 years….in that time nobody has bought a Harbert sticker and added it to it, if someone did it back in the day then perhaps they knew this figure woud become rare and decided to borrow a Delorian and shoot forward in time to check that putting a sticker on the back of a VCJ card would be a good idea? Sorry but the myth busters reasonings are plain crazy….I posted this thing up with the belief it would be a bad but not too bad example of this figure that someone would value then someone would buy….I never thought it would cause such a stir. If its an oddity then so be it but please ask yourselves why or how before making claims that I may have done something to it….I dont mind being questioned as long as the questions may have some valid reason behind them.

Im sure there will be someone with more answers but for now people please lay off the accusations thats its a fraud, because it is not. If the sticker to the back of the card was applied it was before it was purchased from Jannawares somewhere in London. End of defence…..

 

[Palifan]

Here's a couple more pictures of the seal ( I don't think anyone is really doubting that this seal is the real deal but thought it worth asking to take another look anyway).

Ian

 

[madbrownz]

This is frustrating, I suppose I am going to have to stomach having my integrity questioned. I will send photos of the leg and close ups of the bubble requested by Ian shortly.

I however recall having many figures with Empire stickers on them when they were earlier figures. I remember buying original Stormtroopers that had different card variations and Empire stickers on them, Im pretty sure this was just for marketing reasons. Who is to say shopkeepers didnt have stickers to attach themselves for marketing purposes.

I dont have the answers because there is a lot of subjectivity, one thing that is unquestionable when trying to find out the reason for the Harbert sticker is that the thinner bubble which is evident on the card, has never been removed and is still in a pretty poor state, why the hell would I try to sell this in this state if I wanted to pull the wool over anyones eyes? This packaging with the sticker on the back is what the figure came with. I dont recall what year I was given the figure but maybe looking at the serial number on the top left of the card will help people find out more.

Also if you look at the sticker you can clearly see its been on the back for yonks, how on earth I would A) find a sticker like this, B) Imagine it would add worth to the item, C) take it to a forum where people are likely to know much more than if I had just thrown it on Ebay….please!!! Why the hell would someone go to such lengths? This has been in my parents loft, then my draw for over 25 years….in that time nobody has bought a Harbert sticker and added it to it, if someone did it back in the day then perhaps they knew this figure woud become rare and decided to borrow a Delorian and shoot forward in time to check that putting a sticker on the back of a VCJ card would be a good idea? Sorry but the myth busters reasonings are plain crazy….I posted this thing up with the belief it would be a bad but not too bad example of this figure that someone would value then someone would buy….I never thought it would cause such a stir. If its an oddity then so be it but please ask yourselves why or how before making claims that I may have done something to it….I dont mind being questioned as long as the questions may have some valid reason behind them.

Im sure there will be someone with more answers but for now people please lay off the accusations thats its a fraud, because it is not. If the sticker to the back of the card was applied it was before it was purchased from Jannawares somewhere in London. End of defence…..

Just my opinion, but you are taking this to personal. As a lover of Jawas, I am 1000% excited to see new carded and loose variations. However, my 13+ years of collecting Jawas make me tempered as well. You have nothing to loose and everything to gain by posting your childhood figure here. We are a forum and we do,what all collectors, question everything. Those of us who have weathered several scandals hold our judgement for a reason. Not this is a scandal by any means, but I think the sticker seems very out of place. However, if you believe it to be real, then who are we to question your history??

One last thought is that it was some old stock that was in a warehouse once Empire was released and they thought they'd put an Empire sticker on it to try and make it more appealing to a buyer. I know there are a couple of ESB logo Australian VCJ's in existence so it seems possible to me that this could have been put out after Empires release. I'm not sure if Justin has mentioned when he was given it but it might help things to pin point a date to it.

Ian

Personally, I find this plausible. For some unknown reason,a carded SW VC Jawa could have placed in a box and forgotten and shipped overseas. Fast forward a few years and a Harbert sticker found its way one one. Stranger things have been known to happen.

 

[batman]

It's always going to be a tricky one when an item nobody has ever seen turns up, especially something like this. I do trust Justin's word with where this figure originated but I'm wondering how it's possible to figure out if it's the real deal.

Does anyone think there's anything to be gained by sending it of to UKG to take a look?

Just a thought, hopefully some more information will present itself soon.

One last thought is that it was some old stock that was in a warehouse once Empire was released and they thought they'd put an Empire sticker on it to try and make it more appealing to a buyer. I know there are a couple of ESB logo Australian VCJ's in existence so it seems possible to me that this could have been put out after Empires release. I'm not sure if Justin has mentioned when he was given it but it might help things to pin point a date to it.

Ian

Hello Ian,
the Toltoys vc jawas have a different figure, a different cape and they are mounted on an ESB cardback so i don't think you an compare them to Justin's example.
The people at UKG can't grade this cardback because it has been opened and i see no reason to doubt the authenticity of the cardback and blister. Justin could send them an email with some pics to see if there are more UK sold Kenner 12 backs with an 80's Harbert sticker out there, but that does not prove Harbert intended this figure to be sold in Italy with this sticker.
Unless proof can be found that Harbert intended this figure to be sold with this sticker i would simply call it a Kenner vcj with an ESB Harbert sticker.

From what i've read demand for star wars figures in Italy was bigger than the supply so my guess is a smart Italian toyshop keeper could have imported some overstock from the US or Germany, slapped a harbert sticker on it and sold it in his store.The remnants of this operation could have easily been bought up by a Brittish shopkeeper on holliday if there was a profit to be made. I have seen my boss return from holliday with suitcases full of retail bought items to sell to earn back some of her travel expenses.

Jannawares used to be a toy shop in Luton near London and the company name still exist as a florist in the same shopping centre so it could be a good idea for Justin to send them a letter asking if there's anyone around that remembers buying and selling star wars or other imported Italian toys back in he day.

@ Justin: cheers for hanging on to this odd combination of collectables and for showing them to us, no matter what you can find out about them you still have one highly desirable vcj, a rare 12 back b vcj cardback+ blister with a uk price tag and as a bonus one of the rarest stickers out there

Dieter

 

[Palifan]

Hi Dieter,

Some very good thoughts on this piece that make a lot of sense to me, although I'm not quite sure if this sticker would have been made available to shop owners (or maybe it was?).

The only reason I mentioned the Australian ESB VCJ was the fact that it was put together on an Empire card, but as you mentioned with the Jawa being something that was created in OZ (think I'm right in saying that?), it must have been from a different time line than the regular Kenner VCJ.

What ever the history behind how this piece came about though it is really nice to see and a big thanks Justin for bringing it to light!

Ian

Oh, and here's a picture of the Jawa's COO for those interested.

 

[darthberizing]

I think each part is plausible , but the combination isn't.

I own both a carded VCJ and a Harbert Import Sticker Lando ESB. So I can see the "parts" if you will.

I think the VC Jawa is legit.
I think the cardback and sticker could be legit.
I don't think the VC Jawa was from that package.

The Harbert stickers (and granted I've only seen like 5) are pretty much always straight across the card. I though it was a factory done application. This sticker is slanted though. Also there is a big crease on it, that doesn't show on the front of the card. I think (not through Justin) someone might have removed this from another MOC. Could be a store owner, could be Harbert, who knows..Maybe a london toy owner bought stock in Italy to sell as a non Palitoy alternative. We'll never know.

The cardback though (unless I am wrong) is a 12-C and I thought there were no 12-C Vinyl Jawas. So my question to Justin is "Did you own a cloth Jawa also?" It's more likely a cloth Jawa appeared on the card.

 

[Palifan]

I know Justin did own a cloth caped one but I'm sure he'll be happy to mention this.

Do you not think the bubble type is for a VCJ though? (take a look at the side view).

Ian

 

[wbobafett]

edited for the sake of whatever you choose.....Happy new year! :lol:

 

[madbrownz]

A very quick FYI, Vinyl Cape Jawas have been found on 12-C's. I clearly remember two or three being sold over the years.

 

[Palifan]

If you ask me...check the stickers corner to the right below! There it was once peeled off and transfered! A "crushed" corner...without no reason?? And the big crease in the middle?? Also for no reason. That sticker was transfered!

I do not give much about memories...sorry! What have we heard over decades of 100% memories what was simply not true?? A thousnad wrong memories...nice ones...but simply wrong!

I would be happy this one would be prooven real, but I doubt it!

Sorry

And a Happy New Year to you to! :lol:

They're all good points and as I said before it's always difficult to judge something when it's never been seen before.

All I'm saying is that i had a VCJ as a child and I know for a fact that's not my memory failing me. That said though I never kept the card back so it could have been a Kenner one sent over from the US but I'm still holding onto the fact that I'm pretty sure it was Palitoy.

Who knows for sure how this piece came about but I do feel Justin is being on the level about it even though we probably will never find out about it's history before it being bought.

No hard feeling intended by any of the above and I think the long term guys who contribute their knowledge to the threads on here are nothing short of amazing. It is always good to question things otherwise the recent situation with TT would go amiss.

Here's to unearthing more new facts about Vintage Star Wars for 2014!

Ian

 

[wbobafett]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

I didn't ment your memories mate!! :lol: :lol:

The sticker seems transfered for sure! I am not doubting the Jawa....heck....I am surely no expert on these. But as others have mentioned sth is wrong with that Harbert sticker IMO too

 

[Justin]

wbobafet…. My memory is fine thanks, the sticker was not tampered with by me. I cant fathom why I would have done it as a kid and I certainly have not done it in the past 25 years.

The thinner bubble is evident, the card and the figure belong together, All my old cards are kept, I managed to keep quite a few, the original Jawa card is in my mums loft I think.

Anyway for those with more balanced feedback, many thanks…its been massively interesting to hear neutral ideas and balanced views. Thank you.

Anyhow Happy new year to everyone, I do hope to dig out the card backs and some other vintage stuff if I can over the coming weeks/months as I have a fair bit floating aboutat my mums house.

Regards Justin

 

[Justin]

With this thread coming to a reasonable close I think people have had a fair crack at validating and denying this piece. With this in mind I believe everyone has an opinion.

So this figure is for sale. I have had a few offers but thought it only fair to open it to the forum before accepting.

Please PM if interested.

Justin

 

[Pomse2001]

Great thread guys,

I was thinking maybe they did not have enough Jawas in italy so they got some from kenner in usa. Then they placed the sticker on the back in italy and maybe they could not sell it in italy and sold them to the uk :?

I see this a lot at my work today. We sell panasonic products at work and I see a lot of stuff that cannot be sold in other countries and then they contact us and say we can buy it cheap because they can't sell it in spain or italy. Sometimes there is italien or spanish stickers on the product we get to sell in denmark.

Maybe the same did happen in the 80s with your jawa :?

But I am no expert.