Gray Hoth Trooper facts and not fiction

[edd_jedi]

Case closed, note the areas of white on the front where the top layer has been scratched off:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/301575260528

 

[ldr]

unless this a painted version

 

[walkie]

agreed case closed.

 

[SAVORY100]

If the change is indeed a reaction to oxygen/other environmental factors and the now white bits were for a time covered in a resistant material (spots of wax, dirt etc), they would stay white while the rest turns grey...

 

[Panza]

Hi all

Am the proud owner of the figure shown a page or two back by flycasual

Firstly, i should say i am in no way claiming this figure to be 'something special' and am certainly no expert - i am merely commenting based on having the figure in hand......

The figure does appear to be in some sort of 'transitional' state - but, there is absolutely no sign of paint being applied (and in fact since owning this figure i do seem able to spot the painted ones a mile off (the grey seems far denser). I have given it a light scratch and grey still shows - again, i am not claiming the limbs to be solid grey throughout, but it is deeper than the surface......

Now, i am far from comfortable at the thought of cutting or scratching the figure further or deeper but have decided to ask you - the community - what you think may help?

I will hopefully get the chance to upload some pics over the weekend - any particular details or angles preferred?

Lee

 

[ldr]

I think there were some photos on RS (i think, where someone cut one up).

Perhaps its possible to heat the limbs up so its soft enough to remove, and see the 'T' junction....this might still be white if not seen the light of day?

Not sure.

 

[snaggletooth]

This is s great thread and it's nice to get the history of these figures first hand, I'd heared about these being fake. I'm guessing that there the first batch of these scar COOs that where produced by this particular factory. Sent to Palitoy for them to put them on to there own MOC's, when they started discolouring as fast as they did Palitoy decided not to use them and throw them in a draw somewhere till they got passed on to local toy dealers at a latter date. The factory produced the next batches with more chemicals in the plastic to prevent this discolouring error happening again...

Here's the same figure carded but from a latter batch
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/STAR-WARS-ROTJ-PALITOY-HOTH-STORMTROOPER-SINGLE-HOLE-CAPE-MOC-65-BACK-VINTAGE-/291421602822?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43da14c406

 

[snaggletooth]

there is a good point that i think people picked up on then lost site of the body of these figure and my figure is very crisp and very white more white then the regular Hoth trooper you see around ?

i think thats a very important aspect of this mystery , is there any lose figure collectors that have seen a body like this ?

any help is most welcome

thanks everyone

Jason

Hi Jason,

I'd also like to add that these troopers could also be a slightly different plastic that was used because this factory was making paint and plastic variants for all there figures, even with the same COOs. I also wanted to explain why I think there the first produced by this factory. If you Look at the COOs at the bottom of Lars page and you can see the pair of Molds this factory used for these figures. These HK molds where both edited by filling in the HK to remove the COOs and as a result they left these indents on the figures legs, because the filler they used wasn't flush in the mold. No 6 is yours above and No 12 was tho other original edited COOs and then over time the molds got worn out and pieces of the filling broke out resulting in all the other Scar Hoth Troopers out there being produced in different batches(No 7, 8, 9, 10, 13, 14, 15 etc.). I don't know if this is the very first batch but there is other troopers out there with the same Scar COO but without any discoloration, meaning both where produced before any of the other scars on Lars site where. It makes sense they came before the mint ones out there but they could just as easily be an error in production that slots in between two other good batches of the same COO

http://www.pomse2001.dk/Kennertoys%20The%20Empire%20Strikes%20Back.htm

 

[_Lee_]

Case closed, note the areas of white on the front where the top layer has been scratched off:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/301575260528

Too busy noticing some paid that for a discoloured figure

 

[snaggletooth]

Hi all

Am the proud owner of the figure shown a page or two back by flycasual

Firstly, i should say i am in no way claiming this figure to be 'something special' and am certainly no expert - i am merely commenting based on having the figure in hand......

The figure does appear to be in some sort of 'transitional' state - but, there is absolutely no sign of paint being applied (and in fact since owning this figure i do seem able to spot the painted ones a mile off (the grey seems far denser). I have given it a light scratch and grey still shows - again, i am not claiming the limbs to be solid grey throughout, but it is deeper than the surface......

Now, i am far from comfortable at the thought of cutting or scratching the figure further or deeper but have decided to ask you - the community - what you think may help?

I will hopefully get the chance to upload some pics over the weekend - any particular details or angles preferred?

Lee

Hi Lee

Have you got a picture of the leg markings of this figure?

 

[snaggletooth]

there is a good point that i think people picked up on then lost site of the body of these figure and my figure is very crisp and very white more white then the regular Hoth trooper you see around ?

i think thats a very important aspect of this mystery , is there any lose figure collectors that have seen a body like this ?

any help is most welcome

thanks everyone

Jason

Hi Jason,

I'd also like to add that these troopers could also be a slightly different plastic that was used because this factory was making paint and plastic variants for all there figures, even with the same COOs. I also wanted to explain why I think there the first produced by this factory. If you Look at the COOs at the bottom of Lars page and you can see the pair of Molds this factory used for these figures. These HK molds where both edited by filling in the HK to remove the COOs and as a result they left these indents on the figures legs, because the filler they used wasn't flush in the mold. No 6 is yours above and No 12 was tho other original edited COOs and then over time the molds got worn out and pieces of the filling broke out resulting in all the other Scar Hoth Troopers out there being produced in different batches(No 7, 8, 9, 10, 13, 14, 15 etc.). I don't know if this is the very first batch but there is other troopers out there with the same Scar COO but without any discoloration, meaning both where produced before any of the other scars on Lars site where. It makes sense they came before the mint ones out there but they could just as easily be an error in production that slots in between two other good batches of the same COO

http://www.pomse2001.dk/Kennertoys%20The%20Empire%20Strikes%20Back.htm

I've just been having another look at these COO's and I was wrong, yours isn't the Second edited mold this one here on the left is, and yours is from a worn mold so not the first ones produced either.

 

[Panza]

Sorry for the delay and sorry for the rather poor quality pics

Front and back -

C.O.O as asked for -

and finally the scratch i put on his foot revealing the white underneath -

The scratch is far deeper than it appears on the pic (easy to feel with a finger nail) and took three quite hefty scratches before the white became evident.

The arms appear to be in whatever process this is - the 'blending' between the fingers and the shoulder is simply too smooth to be paint.
Also it seems that the lower the legs go, the deeper the colour - like the arms it appears the process begins in the extremities??? Case closed - Snowtrooper frost bite

Cheers

Lee

 

[snaggletooth]

Very interesting Lee and it appears yours was molded at a later time to the one shown above, maybe that can also explains why it has discoulored differently.

 

[edd_jedi]

Nice one, as a video game collector I knew this would be the case as it's much more prevalent. People forget that plastic is a fairly new material, it only began being widely used in the 1950s. There is just no data to say definitively what will happen to plastic over long periods of time, but the evidence so far suggests it deteriorates over time.

 

[ScruffyLookingNH]

I remember seeing these on Antiques Roads Show a few years back - the 'expert' thought they were real. Anyone know who the expert was?

Just been looking for some info on these things as I used to own one. Found this thread and I must confess to being the "expert" in the footage you're talking about. At least I think it was me....it was more than a few years back though, it was Memorabilia '99, I think. Jason will know; it was the year he had a pod racer engine on display as well as a load of other Episode I props, among other things.

In my defence I would like to point out I never claimed to be an expert, that was Tim Wonnacott who did the voice over thing afterwards! I was a collector who did a few trade fairs to sell off the bits I didn't want. My friend Mark was importing the POTF II figures from the US and selling them at the fairs and conventions, hence my presence there at all.

The grey limbed trooper seen in the footage was one I had picked up about an hour before the BBC researcher turned up on our stall. She was asking about the POTF II stuff in terms of collectability and investment potential. I explained that despite it being keenly collected it was unlikely to be worth much, ever, and would never be held in the same like at the real SW toy line. She then asked about vintage stuff and also asked if we ever got offered anything interesting whilst selling. As I say, an hour before a bloke in his 40s had stopped by with a carrier bag of loose figures, about 13 or 14 in all, I think. There was absolutely nothing of value or interest in there (all common figures and beaters at that) except this grey limbed trooper. I had never seen one before but I must have heard about it as I was quite pleased to find it. I asked him where he'd got it and the other figures from and he said they'd been lying around the house for donkey's years. I never got any further than that with the story, wish I had. I paid him £10 or £20 for the bag. He was pleased and I had a curiosity for my collection.

Anyway, researcher rocks up, has a chat. Likes the find, grabs Wonnacott and did a 10 min interview that was cut down to about 30 seconds when it aired. I had tried to scratch the grey off with my nail soon after buying it and had no luck at all with nail or even a light scratch on the sole with a key. It was the same shade of grey as seen in other photos here. I'm sure I would have said it was real and that it was some kind of variant or test shot and that the legs were made of grey plastic as opposed to the usual white, etc. Yeah, wrong in hindsight but it appears the mystery wasn't solved until 2014 so I don't feel to bad about it.

I sold up all my vintage stuff in 2000 when Mr Tree and I were trying to become the next Martha Lane Foxs. I was skint and needed money so it all went. I held onto the grey limbed trooper as he was my only really unusual item. Later, in 2007, I was again skint (recurring theme) and I found him in a draw. I stuck him on ebay with a 99p start price and he ended up jetting off to South America for £90 odd, as I recall. I had made a concerted effort to dig through the the white plastic by attacking the inside of one of the foot holes with a pin. I did get through but have to say I'm quite certain it wasn't a surface type effect. I'm quite sure it was more than surface deep. It wasn't even a millimeter thick but it wasn't as thin as a paint layer would have been. Indeed, I never suspected it of being paint but wanted to know if it was grey all the way through or not.

Anyway, Spoons, if the interview you're thinking of was in the late 90's, it was me. I wasn't an expert then and I'm even less of a not expert now Just thought I'd put the above up to solve another little part of the mystery. Actually, until recently I still had the BBC waiver I had to sign to take part in the programme. I guess it's still somewhere here. The programme was an Antiques Roadshow special called "Antiques of Tomorrow" or "Antiques of the Future" or some such guff.

 

[spoons]

Anyway, Spoons, if the interview you're thinking of was in the late 90's, it was me. I wasn't an expert then and I'm even less of a not expert now Just thought I'd put the above up to solve another little part of the mystery. Actually, until recently I still had the BBC waiver I had to sign to take part in the programme. I guess it's still somewhere here. The programme was an Antiques Roadshow special called "Antiques of Tomorrow" or "Antiques of the Future" or some such guff.

What a great story Scruffylooking - it could well have been around then, and I can't imagine they featured grey limbed troopers twice?

Do you remember picking up a battered X-Wing box too? If it was you, then you didn't look too impressed :lol:

 

[ScruffyLookingNH]

Anyway, Spoons, if the interview you're thinking of was in the late 90's, it was me. I wasn't an expert then and I'm even less of a not expert now Just thought I'd put the above up to solve another little part of the mystery. Actually, until recently I still had the BBC waiver I had to sign to take part in the programme. I guess it's still somewhere here. The programme was an Antiques Roadshow special called "Antiques of Tomorrow" or "Antiques of the Future" or some such guff.

What a great story Scruffylooking - it could well have been around then, and I can't imagine they featured grey limbed troopers twice?

Do you remember picking up a battered X-Wing box too? If it was you, then you didn't look too impressed :lol:

:lol: No! I seriously don't remember much about it other than the grey trooper part. I haven't seen the footage since 2000 when they aired it (I think it was). Would be great to see it again though; love to see how I looked with hair

 

[olisuds]

I'm hearing there is a change of thought on these grey limb Hoth Stormtroopers since the Palitoy Q&A at Coalville. Anyone got any details they can share on it? Surely there is no debate to the grey limbs being down to discolouration?

 

[Mini99]

I'm hearing there is a change of thought on these grey limb Hoth Stormtroopers since the Palitoy Q&A at Coalville. Anyone got any details they can share on it? Surely there is no debate to the grey limbs being down to discolouration?

This is from Fanthatracks written by Richard

Some interesting tidbits of information came out such as Roger believing that the grey limbed Hoth Stormtroopers are first shots (test shots, not intended for retail but for quality control, so it didn't matter what colours they were).

Here's the link
https://www.fanthatracks.com/news/conventions-events/the-palitoy-and-star-wars-story/

 

[Snaketibe]

I'm hearing there is a change of thought on these grey limb Hoth Stormtroopers since the Palitoy Q&A at Coalville. Anyone got any details they can share on it? Surely there is no debate to the grey limbs being down to discolouration?

This is from Fanthatracks written by Richard

Some interesting tidbits of information came out such as Roger believing that the grey limbed Hoth Stormtroopers are first shots (test shots, not intended for retail but for quality control, so it didn't matter what colours they were).

Here's the link
https://www.fanthatracks.com/news/conventions-events/the-palitoy-and-star-wars-story/

Thanks for the link. That was a very interesting read.

I note that the article states that the thicker soled (presumably 'Disco Boots' variant) Death Squad Commander is worth £5,000. I was under the impression it was worth closer to £500, so does anyone know if the £5,000 is simply a typo, or am I massively out of date with my valuation? :lol: